Music has no language ?

raj5000 thumbnail
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Posted: 17 years ago
#1

IMO agreed on music is language in itself no particular dilac required, after hearing songs like di di, uno dos tres, peace few more...

Saw Asian idol today, could really cast my opinion of contestant not singing hindi/english... other point was Judges views on songs of other language...I mean the never heard the original track or understood the depth of lyrics how can they form an opinion.

Again - Music (lyrics /notes /beats etc) has no language ?

PS - There are many music section wasn't sure where to post, dev team feel free to move this post to appropiate section.

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souro thumbnail
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Posted: 17 years ago
#2

Originally posted by: raj5000

IMO agreed on music is language in itself no particular dilac required, after hearing songs like di di, uno dos tres, peace few more...

Saw Asian idol today, could really cast my opinion of contestant not singing hindi/english... other point was Judges views on songs of other language...I mean the never heard the original track or understood the depth of lyrics how can they form an opinion.

Again - Music (lyrics /notes /beats etc) has no language ?

Everyone knows that music doesn't have language. It's about sur (notes/ melody), taal (rhythm), loy (beats/ tempo). Language (lyrics) comes into play in songs. And even if we like a song of foreign language it's the music which we enjoy not the lyrics.

raj5000 thumbnail
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Posted: 17 years ago
#3

Originally posted by: souro

Everyone knows that music doesn't have language. It's about sur (notes/ melody), taal (rhythm), loy (beats/ tempo). Language (lyrics) comes into play in songs. And even if we like a song of foreign language it's the music which we enjoy not the lyrics.

@blue - thats wat I thought untill I heard some Malay, Indonasian, Phillipines songs... couldn't get sense of notes/rhythm/loy special when being sung becuase that feel of words was unable to understand...u know wat i mean?

qwertyesque thumbnail
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Posted: 17 years ago
#4

music has a language and math associated with it. Its alphabet is defined by do re mi fa so la te.. and the intervals and scales define its grammar just as semantic/syntactic rules define english language.... 😊

What I think you wanted to say is music is independent of the language used in the lyrics of vocal music...😊

Edited by qwertyesque - 17 years ago
raj5000 thumbnail
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Posted: 17 years ago
#5

Originally posted by: qwertyesque

music has a language and math associated with it. Its alphabet is defined by do re mi fa so la te.. and the intervals and scales define its grammar just as semantic/syntactic rules define english language.... 😊

What I think you wanted to say is music is independent of the language used in the lyrics of vocal music...😊

am 😕...ok my bad with music and Asian idol mention, i meant music more as in form of overall song. Thing that bothers me how can one make assement of techinicality of overall song without knowing the feel (meaning of each words).

For example can a Music director from India who knows only hindi/english, judge songs 1,2,3 below or he is more likely to justify his judgement on no. 4.

PS - don't hear them at full, just 1 minute or so you will get what i mean.

1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSAznnWSkgo
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2KiCpEzDOA
3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SM4iXIfKvf8

4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNABCkfQeKQ

hehehehe after all this build up... do you see any dependecy of language on music oops I mean song? ...😆

Dabulls23 thumbnail
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Posted: 17 years ago
#6
Anshu interesting topic. Appreciated all views so far.

This is going off the topic from music to dancing.

I see similar on Reality show about dancing like JDJ and Nach baliye shows. On JDJ where it says "Dancing with the stars" and we are supposed to see Latin dances but we see more of bollywood dances and they judge basically on local dance style. Most judges have no clue on Latin dances or techniques but they are judging the contestants.


lighthouse thumbnail
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Posted: 17 years ago
#7

Originally posted by: raj5000

am 😕...ok my bad with music and Asian idol mention, i meant music more as in form of overall song. Thing that bothers me how can one make assement of techinicality of overall song without knowing the feel (meaning of each words).

For example can a Music director from India who knows only hindi/english, judge songs 1,2,3 below or he is more likely to justify his judgement on no. 4.

I haven't heard those songs you mentioned Raj , but I think I know what you mean- isn't pronounciation of words one of the criteria in judging these reality shows? 😕

As far as enjoyment goes - I have seen Guyanese Indians and Americans enjoying bollywood music even when they don't understand a word of it.

qwertyesque thumbnail
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Posted: 17 years ago
#8

Originally posted by: raj5000

am 😕...ok my bad with music and Asian idol mention, i meant music more as in form of overall song. Thing that bothers me how can one make assement of techinicality of overall song without knowing the feel (meaning of each words).

For example can a Music director from India who knows only hindi/english, judge songs 1,2,3 below or he is more likely to justify his judgement on no. 4.

PS - don't hear them at full, just 1 minute or so you will get what i mean.

1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSAznnWSkgo
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2KiCpEzDOA
3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SM4iXIfKvf8

4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNABCkfQeKQ

hehehehe after all this build up... do you see any dependecy of language on music oops I mean song? ...😆

@ 1, 2, 3 yes they can judge it. As I said every word in a song can be replaced with Sa, re ga...etc or do re, me... it doenst have to be words when its about music.... which is why we have the musical alphabet..When somebody appreciates singing its never about lyrics its about ability to produce the right tone, breath control. and sustainability... if someone cant say "ranjish-e-ilm ki nawazish" sure they cant be ghazal singers but they can still be singers if they can use the musical alphabet...😊 A mother humming a tune can put a child to bed doesnt have to have pari, chand rajkumar.... etc... or a story...etc.

Edited by qwertyesque - 17 years ago
Anuradha thumbnail
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Posted: 17 years ago
#9
Nice topic Anshu.. I hv myself wondered this many a times!!

Here are my 2 cents:

Lyrics is definitely important as a part of one song.. We can enjoy the music, but cannot feel them.. With appropriate lyrics for the music, we can understand them and feel the song.. I personally believe that only if you feel the song, you can get the essence of music..

There are songs of Kishore sung in both Bengali and Hindi but I would prefer listening to the Hindi version as that will be more soothing to my ears and I can get the mood.. I may enjoy Bengali version, but cannot get the mood of the song being sung..

If music was the only criteria, then why do we have lyricists and singers singing the song? We can just have MDs composing tunes without lyrics...

As pointed out, in a reality show we need to know what the singer is singing to judge them.. We can judge it based upon the technical aspects, but if we do not know the lyrics, we cant say if he is singing with the feelings or not..
return_to_hades thumbnail
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Posted: 17 years ago
#10
Music in itself has no language. It is purely rhythm, meter, scale, notes etc. Lyrics can easily be substituted with any syllables. Music can be enoyed for the music without the lyrics. In fact remove the lyrics and you have a nice accoustic version. So many local and international groups have transcended the language barrier in the music industry.

Lyrics add an extra dimension to the music. Lyrics can be used in different means - in rap lyrics and the lyrical rhythm is of utmost importance even if its nonsesnical. In techno, trance and house the lyric is usually the same set of words repeated over and over again, being a beat centric genre the lyrics are selected to fit the tempo.In death metal the lyrics are absolutely distorted and harsh. A lot of genres of music can be enjoyed without lyrics at all.

On the other hand lyrics can add a whole extra layer of meaning, emotion and feel to a song. The piece of music now becomes a complete song with accompanying vocals, each complementing each other. This is where performance counts big time. An ordinary singer will merely sing a song. Performance can be as limited to varied facial expressions and hand gestures, a body language that can emit the feel or it can be as exhubarent as moving around, bringing in props and portaying it like a story.

However, the fact remains that without knowing the lyrics it is hard to judge if a contestant is giving the right feel of the song. But conveying the feel of the song is more in performance and less in singing. Multilingual singing contests judge voice quality, throw of the voice, pitch, scale, various mannerisms. I would expect the jduges familiarize themselves with the original song first to know the basics like rhythm etc.

But when you consider music with no boundaries you have to look towards the Eurovision Song Contest perhaps the biggest and longest running reality music contest - over 40 countries participating, 600 million viewers in over 140 countries around the world. All kinds of music from Nordic, Greek, Gaelic, from Western to Middle Eastern, From Classical and Folk to Pop and Rock. Winners voted by the viewers of each of the participating countries. It really shows music has no language at all.

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