Member Topic: Do you support the queer community? - Page 10

That's what it was before and is ideally supposed to be (to protect these children from being exploited and wrongly diagnosed). But now the radical trans activism is trying to remove all these barriers and processes. I understand where they are coming from. Since it was so difficult for trans people to get access to gender affirming care before, they want to make it easy on them. But by making it easy (i.e. loosening restrictions), a lot of confused teens are now wrongly labelled as trans and they are going through surgeries and whatnot, only to realize it was all a mistake. I can assure you the de-transition rate and regret rate will skyrocket in the future due to this.

Do you have any statistics on these?

figuring out who is truly gender dysphoric and who is just confused seems hard.

It is not difficult, professional psychologists and psychiatrists do it through a series of tests and thorough therapy sessions. It's not a one day thing. And if you're not a professional yourself, don't speak for them.

were asking is: is there any valid way to know if someone is truly suffering from gender dysphoria, if they were born really in the wrong body etc aside from anecdotes and self-diagnosis? Do we have actual MRI and research showing trans people have the brains of the opposite sex, that their gender identity in their brain is misaligned with their bodily sex? From what I have read, there isn't any evidence either way.

Men and women don't have different brain structures, it's the hormones that make the difference. To know if there's a VALID way of things, you should simply talk to trans people who have actually gone through the transition. Read books, listen to their podcasts, videos and educate yourself. Although no trans person owes you any answer to the intrusive personal questions.

Also, what someone does with their own body is upto them, why are you so bothered? It's not like they're forcing you to change who you are.

Originally posted by: Blood_Sacrifice

By the way, have you seen Matt Walsh's "What is a Woman?". It's a brilliantly made documentary on this issue we are talking about, and touches on pretty much every aspect of the current trans movement (pretty much everything we talked about here). It hosts interviews with scientists, medical professionals, psychiatrists, therapists, doctors, etc. It's biased and obviously has an agenda (made by a right wing conservative) but doesn't stop it from being brilliant.

Matt Walsh is an awful person. He isn't just anti-transgender. He has espoused misogynistic and homophobic views. He believes women should be subservient to men and their duty is to procreate. He's used violent rhetoric against LGBTQ folks. I refuse to support the work of such a person and if that makes me biased so be it.

I think there is a conversation to be had about sex and gender and their role in society. But Matt Walsh is not a person to start that conversation in my books.

Originally posted by: Satrangi_Curls

Men and women don't have different brain structures, it's the hormones that make the difference. To know if there's a VALID way of things, you should simply talk to trans people who have actually gone through the transition. Read books, listen to their podcasts, videos and educate yourself. Although no trans person owes you any answer to the intrusive personal questions.

Also, what someone does with their own body is upto them, why are you so bothered? It's not like they're forcing you to change who you are.

Hi dear. I do not know what assumptions you have about me. I am a queer person with plenty of queer friends including transgender, genderqueer, and non-binary folks. I actually do have firsthand accounts of many people who went through gender-affirming surgery. I have even financially supported some of them. It does not bother me what people do with their bodies. And I will always fight for their right to exist and be treated with respect and dignity.

Heck, I don't even get why women want to bear children. But I don't say women shouldn't reproduce, and I am definitely not saying people shouldn't transition.

It is just that from these firsthand accounts, I do often get a sense of confusion and disconnect for not having the behaviors and interests society attributes to male/female bodies. I do often wonder if they would feel more comfortable in their bodies if society had been more supportive. But nevertheless, I support them in their choices.

My few major questions are

- if society was more accepting of gender nonconforming behavior, would people be more comfortable in their biological sex?

- are male/female identities on passports, driver's licenses, public records, and certain designated spaces intended to be sociological gender-based or biological sex-based?

- should the decision to transition be limited to adults who have the capability to weigh the pros an cons or children who can strongly feel identity and big emotions but don't have the prefrontal cortex development to make rational decisions with foresight?

- should puberty blockers, a treatment developed for precocious puberty be freely used for treating gender dysphoria without extensive studies or FDA approval?

Originally posted by: return_to_hades

It is just that from these firsthand accounts, I do often get a sense of confusion and disconnect for not having the behaviors and interests society attributes to male/female bodies. I do often wonder if they would feel more comfortable in their bodies if society had been more supportive. But nevertheless, I support them in their choices.

My few major questions are

1.- if society was more accepting of gender nonconforming behavior, would people be more comfortable in their biological sex?

2.- are male/female identities on passports driver's licenses, public records, and certain designated spaces intended to be sociological gender-based or biological sex-based?

3.- should the decision to transition be limited to adults who have the capability to weigh the pros an cons or children who can strongly feel identity and big emotions but don't have the prefrontal cortex development to make rational decisions with foresight?

4.- should puberty blockers, a treatment developed for precocious puberty be freely used for treating gender dysphoria without extensive studies or FDA approval?

If you look into how many tribal societies, even today, function, you'll realise that for them, most of these things don't really matter. In my neighbouring district, we have 7-8 queer couples who live with their partners in the villages and nobody bats an eye. In fact, I've seen more judgemental people in my university than I found in that (sorta) remote village.

1. This requires a proper sociological/psychological research (long term studies, preferably) or even a mixed method would work with both quantitative and qualitative data inputs.

2. Most records are biology based, since birth certificate is the primary identifier but all of these can be changed with an affidavit and some more certificates.

3. Transition (irreversible) is still and will pretty much be limited to adults only. Whatever drugs (puberty blockers, et al) children get are also very limited. Especially in Asia/Africa. I mean doctors won't even prescribe birth control pills to help someone suffering from PCOS/D. These drugs are not available/used for teens in Asia as far as I know, whoever can access them are very, very limited to few metropolitan areas.

4. Well, a lot of drugs are used without proper trials/studies but yeah they shouldn't be. And I'd still like to know the statistics of the accessibility and usage of these drugs. I looked up and found nothing concrete. I found studies done on sample size of >40 people. And as a researcher, I wouldn't use that sample size to buy an item online, let alone use that to talk about people's life altering decisions.

Originally posted by: Satrangi_Curls

That's what it was before and is ideally supposed to be (to protect these children from being exploited and wrongly diagnosed). But now the radical trans activism is trying to remove all these barriers and processes. I understand where they are coming from. Since it was so difficult for trans people to get access to gender affirming care before, they want to make it easy on them. But by making it easy (i.e. loosening restrictions), a lot of confused teens are now wrongly labelled as trans and they are going through surgeries and whatnot, only to realize it was all a mistake. I can assure you the de-transition rate and regret rate will skyrocket in the future due to this.

Do you have any statistics on these?

1. How children can order life-altering transgender drugs from their bedroom: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/02/26/children-can-order-life-altering-transgender-drugs-bedroom/?fbclid=IwAR1AGry878mxbWxqsc5l7I-ymoCC7F3gVeBXaRKkHYwCZT_LB_yh7xCqSgE

In case the whole article isn't accessible without subscription, here's the key points: https://www.peaktrans.org/how-children-can-order-life-altering-transgender-drugs-from-their-bedroom-the-telegraph-26-02-21/

2.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/article-abstract/2674039

3. Trans child taken into care after parents ‘refused to acknowledge their gender’:

https://metro.co.uk/2020/11/30/trans-child-taken-into-care-after-parents-refused-to-acknowledge-their-gender-13675749/

4.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E38o16gyBuI

"Gender therapist Kellyn Lakhardt of the Kaiser Permanente healthcare organization in Oakland, California admits that her colleagues have removed tissue from the healthy growing breasts of a confused 12 year old girl. Kaiser Permanente surgeons have also created pseudo-"vaginas" from the genitals of 16 year old boys."

Originally posted by: Satrangi_Curls

It is not difficult, professional psychologists and psychiatrists do it through a series of tests and thorough therapy sessions.

I felt the trend now is "Gender Affirming Care" where people's beliefs regarding their gender identity is literally affirmed and people are put onto the path of medicalization for life. The job of professionals shouldn't be to 'affirm' but rather to explore, but these medics are now starting with the conclusion in mind and guiding the patients to the path of lifelong medicalization.

Originally posted by: Satrangi_Curls

It's not a one day thing. And if you're not a professional yourself, don't speak for them.

Yes, because one needs to be a professional to speak about professionals. What professional credentials do you have to speak for them, I wonder?

Originally posted by: Satrangi_Curls

Men and women don't have different brain structures, it's the hormones that make the difference.

Wrong. If hormones were the only factor at play, a trans-identified person could easily be fixed by giving them the correct dosage of hormones. In fact, gender dysphoria or transgender-identity isn't physical but more psychological. People who have physical problems in their bodies related to their biological sex are called intersex (or DSD now). Some people with abnormal level of hormones of the opposite sex have an intersex condition. Transgender, by definition, means the mismatch between perceived gender identity and actual biological sex does not lie in the body but in the mind. If the problem lied in their body, they would be called intersex and not trans.

It has been hypothesized that transgendered people have the brains (or at least something in their brains) of the opposite sex -- like a male-bodied person having a female brain or vice-versa, leading to gender dysphoria. There are some studies to demonstrate that, but the evidence isn't conclusive.

Originally posted by: Satrangi_Curls

To know if there's a VALID way of things, you should simply talk to trans people who have actually gone through the transition.

I have. I work at a bank in Canada, and I have an older transwoman colleague, who's much older than me and have gone through multiple surgeries and hormone treatments, and I would have never known she is a trans if she didn't tell me so, as she completely looks like a woman. And she is perfectly happy in her life with her decision to live as a woman. But being older, she had to go through numerous psychiatric evaluations and tests before granting the right to transition. The radical trans movement is now trying to get rid of all that and allow 12 years old sto get onto this path just because they believe they are born in the wrong body. Hell, even 4 years olds beliefs about their genders are believed to be cent percent true.

Originally posted by: Satrangi_Curls

Read books, listen to their podcasts, videos and educate yourself.

OK, maybe I should listen to Blaire White, a transwoman who have repeatedly talked about the dangers of puberty blockers and allowing teens to transition before they have reached adulthood:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJvQaBgzSAY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8GtmWxKbO8

The fact that she's a biological male and no amount of surgery or hormone treatment will change chromosomal sex:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyzZ3J6IG6s

Or maybe Buck Angel, a transman, who also warns about the dangers of transing children and teens before they have reached maturity (despite the fact that he says transitioning was life-saving for him):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8GtmWxKbO8&t=1551s&pp=ygUdYnVjayBhbmdlbCBvbiBwdWJlcnR5IGJsb2NrZXI%3D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L85Vj3zdq60

Or maybe Caitlyn Jenner, who have spoken out against transwoman participating in woman's sports, despite being both a transwoman and an ex-Olympic player herself (no better person than her to talk about biological males in female sports, eh?):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4uJ92Sqovg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Twd5cE_-rFQ&t=180s

All of them are transsexuals who were deeply unhappy in their original sex and say transitioning was life-saving. Despite that, they recognize the harm to letting children or teenagers getting onto this path to lifelong medicalisation based on nothing but their self-diagnosis, the fact that this is an irreversible path and once you have removed organs and whatnot, there's no coming back, the fact that children and teens don't have the mental capacity to make lifelong decisions about themselves at that age.

Or maybe, listen to Scott Newgent, a transman, who transitioned as an adult, but now regrets it deeply and has had a stress heart attack, a helicopter life ride with pulmonary embolism, 17 rounds of antibiotics, 6 inches of hair inside his urethra for 17 months due to the bodily stress that comes with transitioning. He says nobody -- not even the medical professionals -- helps him with that because his insurance ran out, and he can't even speak about the dangers of transitioning because of woke politics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1729wD_TOL8&t=264s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBOKeaiSMxI&t=1512s

Yes I am aware of the happy trans community who have happily transitioned and are leading healthy and productive lives. I 100% support an adult's choice to transition. But let's also be clear that transitioning comes with several risks and health problems, that you need to medicalize yourself for life, that it is irreversible and if you do regret it later down the path, there is no coming back from it, that children and teens don't have the mental capacity to make life-altering decisions.

Originally posted by: Satrangi_Curls

Although no trans person owes you any answer to the intrusive personal questions.

I am glad that most trans people I know of in real life will answer my so-called intrusive questions without hesitation, and they don't mind people asking questions about certain aspects of this woke movement that's going on. Most old-generation transsexuals and sensible people I know have the same doubts and hesitations that I have.

Originally posted by: Satrangi_Curls

Also, what someone does with their own body is upto them, why are you so bothered? It's not like they're forcing you to change who you are.

I've already answered the question, but I will just summarize my main problems:

1. Eradicating the importance of biological sex, and replacing it with gender identity. This is why men who have done no surgeries or hormonal interventions or even gotten a psychiatric evaluation can now walk into a woman's bathroom or woman's rape shelter, just because they identifies as women in his head, and we all need to accept their self-identification as valid over theiractual biological sex.

2. The wholesale transitioning of teens and even children who don't have the capacity to make life-altering decisions.

3. Labeling anyone with gender nonconforming behavior as trans (gays and lesbians are a major target) and persuading them to transition.

4. The long-term health risks and dangers to transitioning are not told to people properly before they embark on this path.

Also, I just realized you are the same member who, a few pages ago, reported a bunch of posts to every moderator and whatnot because you found them offensive, instead of actually engaging in a proper debate. I guess I should have taken that into account before bothering to respond.

Originally posted by: Blood_Sacrifice

iirc you are from India, so you must know of the hijra community.

Yes and yes. Indian by birth, Hyderabadi at heart and American by citizenship (and bank balance 😊)

But it's difficult to get a good estimate of the number of people who are trans in those societies for obvious reasons, so any kind of comparison is difficult.

The last census in India was taken in 2011. I am not sure if the census questionnaire has a place to accept a 3rd gender. But some estimates are putting the numbers between 4-6 million (< 0.5%)

IMO, at its core, pretty much all "social justice" topics are in actuality a power struggle between the left and the right in the western world.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CqK2giZLU3e/?igshid=MTk0MGU0NTkxNA==

https://www.instagram.com/p/CuzA2eZIeCp/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

Originally posted by: Satrangi_Curls

https://www.instagram.com/p/CqK2giZLU3e/?igshid=MTk0MGU0NTkxNA==

https://www.instagram.com/p/CuzA2eZIeCp/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

Oh I somehow missed this.

Posting images from a page made by a non-binary / trans-identified person with a rainbow flag flying behind her/them (as she describes their pronoun lol)? Yeah, no bias detected.

But a few points in short:

1. I have already mentioned that the current reported detransition rate and regret rate is very low. I have also explained part of the reason why that is the case. Up until recently, getting access to gender affirming care -- especially one that involves hormones and blockers and esp. surgery 'd have-- was extremely difficult. You'd have to go through a very rigorous process of psychiatric evaluation, psychoanalysis and staged transformation, and most often would need parental consent and to be of an adult age to go through medical transition. It was a very difficult process, and only those with extreme gender dysphoria managed to pass through all of it, and therefore, logically, these people would be much less likely to regret their transitioning and hence much less likely to detransition. In short, the rigorous process ensured that confused teens aren't just getting access to gender affirming care, and only those who are genuinely gender dysphoric and would benefit from these would get it. Hence we managed to keep the regret and detransition rate low.

With the modern form of trans-activism that is trying to remove all these robust processes that gender dysphoric people had to go through, and with the exponential increase number of people identifiying as trans, it won't be long until the regret rate or detransition rate skyrocket.

2. While the "reported" detransition rate and regret rate is indeed low, it is only the statistics that gender clinics have access to, and there are plenty of detransitioners and regretful people who do not come out in the open with their stories so they are left out of these statistics.

The Tavistock gender clinic in London was heavily criticized for not following up with people who have transitioned even a few years later, so anyone who detransitions or shows regret a few years down the lane will not be taken into their surveys. Moreover, it is also well-documented that those who do detransition are unlikely to inform clinicians of that. So health clinics have reports of the happily transitioned community rather than the ones who are unhappy as the unhappy ones are much less likely to report it -- so there's already a selection bias there.

I know wiki isn't seen as a credible source but I believe it's a good starting place for gathering info., so here is something from wiki:

I think this tweet pretty much sums up the issue:

Having said all of that: Adult people should be allowed to transition after they have gone through all the rigorous process of psychiatric evaluation and psychotherapy. I know and have seen happy trans people so I am not disputing that, at all.

3. All the other things this image mentions that people may regret: most of them are reversible, unlike medical transitioning. Depending on which stage you are in now, if it's done, it's done. There is no getting back an organ or body part once you have chopped it off.