Nothing ever exists... ?

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sudesh kumar

@qwertyesque

Rocker

Posted: 7 years ago

#11

Originally posted by: Angel-likeDevil
or maybe time isn't exactly the way as we know it (or science)..
Maybe it is different in the universe... or maybe different in different spaces of the universe.. like in the movie Interstellar or even Inception :p I think I'm going all over the place, but they do say that life's a dream..

One thing is for sure, our perception of time is not the truth, maybe a truth on one or two planes of which our mind is capable of seeing/perceiving, but there is no absolute truth about time...

In all this confusion, it cannot be denied that there is something :D

Time is just the measurement of a change. The accuracy is just more and more with hour glass, sun dial, quartz and digital clocks... time has just continual change as its constancy..

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@K.Universe.

Voyager

Posted: 7 years ago

#12

Originally posted by: qwertyesque

Time is just the measurement of a change.

Say, for the sake of argument, you are the only life form on this planet.

You have a watch / clock with you.

According to the watch / clock, you slept at 11 PM and woke up at 6 AM.

What changed, other than time itself? in other words, your time piece is showing a change from 11 PM to 6 AM but what change was actually measured between 11 PM and 6 AM, in this hypothetical scenario?

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_Angie_

@_Angie_

Rocker

Posted: 7 years ago

#13

Originally posted by: K.Universe.

What changed, other than time itself? in other words, your time piece is showing a change from 11 PM to 6 AM but what change was actually measured between 11 PM and 6 AM, in this hypothetical scenario?

A lot of changes would take place during the period even if Qwerty happened to be the only living person on the planet. As he slept the watch kept ticking and measured the passage of moments during which several changes took place, which would be perceptible to qwerty on waking up, even though he did not himself witness the changes taking place.

The earth spun more than a quarter on its axis, and while it was dark at 11.00 pm it was bright day light at 6.00 am. The trillions of cells in the body were at work leading to several metabolic changes while the person slept and perceptible as hunger and thirst on waking up. Assuming there were no nightmares the person also enjoyed a restful sleep while the wear and tear of the body tissues got repaired and the person woke up feeling refreshed and replenished. The watch measured the time it took for these changes to occur.

If no changes took place whatsoever and everything was at a standstill would time exist?

Do things really have to change or is a perception of change sufficient to mark time! For instance, an entire movie exists encoded in a CD . Difficult to mark time in the CD itself until the movie gets played.

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@K.Universe.

Voyager

Posted: 7 years ago

#14

Originally posted by: _Angie_

A lot of changes would take place during the period even if Qwerty happened to be the only living person on the planet. As he slept the watch kept ticking and measured the passage of moments during which several changes took place, which would be perceptible to qwerty on waking up, even though he did not himself witness the changes taking place.
The earth spun more than a quarter on its axis, and while it was dark at 11.00 pm it was bright day light at 6.00 am. The trillions of cells in the body were at work leading to several metabolic changes while the person slept and perceptible as hunger and thirst on waking up. Assuming there were no nightmares the person also enjoyed a restful sleep while the wear and tear of the body tissues got repaired and the person woke up feeling refreshed and replenished. The watch measured the time it took for these changes to occur.

OK, what if the time piece was a cheap brand and it stopped ticking at, say, 3:10 AM?

Does time still exist
Does time still exist for the person alone on this planet? For how long?

What if that person, alone on this planet, died of starvation? (R.I.P!)

Does time still exist?

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@K.Universe.

Voyager

Posted: 7 years ago

#15

^^ Angie, I am asking you debaters if time exists independent of a measuring instrument (such as a clock or watch) and independent of an intelligent being capable of understanding that measurement. Hence, the need to construct a scenario that starts off with one intelligent being in possession of a measuring instrument (such as a clock or watch) and then (in no particular order of importance.)
a) taking that being out of the picture
b) taking the measuring instrument (such as a clock or watch) out of the picture

Can I get one comprehensive answer before I pose follow-up questions?

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Angel-likeDevil

@Angel-likeDevil

Trailblazer

+ 3

Posted: 7 years ago

#16

Great discussion debaters! 😃

Originally posted by: K.Universe.
^^ Angie, I am asking you debaters if time exists independent of a measuring instrument (such as a clock or watch) and independent of an intelligent being capable of understanding that measurement. Hence, the need to construct a scenario that starts off with one intelligent being in possession of a measuring instrument (such as a clock or watch) and then (in no particular order of importance.)
a) taking that being out of the picture
b) taking the measuring instrument (such as a clock or watch) out of the picture

Can I get one comprehensive answer before I pose follow-up questions?

Time does exist without the instrument... like, while reading your post, my eyes moved from "Angie: to "?" ...and in that period I have experienced time.. even without a watch or the seconds.

As for taking the being out... I feel time could be felt universally.. maybe with varying degrees. If we look for tangible affects of time, then we could take example of me going out on a trip for 4 days locking my house... the house starts smelling different when I come back because it is exposed to changes, and though the two aren't always directly proportional... still, my house does feel time also, I think..

If we remove the mind/brain that is so senselessly caught up with making sense of everything then, I think there will perhaps be no time... but then, this is also the opinion that comes from my brain! so... who can say :)

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@K.Universe.

Voyager

Posted: 7 years ago

#17

ALD, are you familiar with circadian rhythms? In layman's terms, biological clock...

How did our "inner clock" adapt to "time"? Forget humans, how did all other organisms including some bacteria adapt to "time"?

Let's get a little bit more scientific than "I experienced time when reading a paragraph", shall we?

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Angel-likeDevil

@Angel-likeDevil

Trailblazer

+ 3

Posted: 7 years ago

#18

Originally posted by: K.Universe.
ALD, are you familiar with circadian rhythms? In layman's terms, biological clock...

How did our "inner clock" adapt to "time"? Forget humans, how did all other organisms including some bacteria adapt to "time"?

Let's get a little bit more scientific than "I experienced time when reading a paragraph", shall we?

KU, please bare with me, I am a confused ball of mess ☺️

I think, plants/animals with a "biological clock" has more to do with biology than with time.. Plants or animals have evolved in a way to 'wake up' to the sunrise and to 'sleep/retire' with sunset and vice-versa in some other living beings(some nocturnal beings). IDK if they adapted to time, I feel they biologically wired to respond to the environment = sunlight, moonlight, night, day.. and in that way, all living beings are innately wired to wake up at a certain time, sleep at certain time etc, even though there are many anomalies in the environment...

And, every living organism, PERHAPS, needs something like 'rest' or a 'recharge'... that is my understanding as far as circadian rhythms go...

anyway, what do you intend to point at, KU ? :)

Edited by Angel-likeDevil - 7 years ago

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@K.Universe.

Voyager

Posted: 7 years ago

#19

Originally posted by: Angel-likeDevil

KU, please bare with me, I am a confused ball of mess ☺️

bear with me :)

I would rather bare with my wife :))

I think, plants/animals with a "biological clock" has more to do with biology than with time.. Plants or animals have evolved in a way to 'wake up' to the sunrise and to 'sleep/retire' with sunset and vice-versa in some other living beings(some nocturnal beings). IDK if they adapted to time, I feel they biologically wired to respond to the environment = sunlight, moonlight, night, day.. and in that way, all living beings are innately wired to wake up at a certain time, sleep at certain time etc, even though there are many anomalies in the environment...

Define / elaborate the word "wired".

And, every living organism, PERHAPS, needs something like 'rest' or a 'recharge'... that is my understanding as far as circadian rhythms go...

anyway, what do you intend to point at, KU ? :)

My intention is to see if we can "unwire" time from matter.

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Angel-likeDevil

@Angel-likeDevil

Trailblazer

+ 3

Posted: 7 years ago

#20

KU --- OMG sorry and thankyou for the correction 😆

@wired... it's just a theory, but it could mean 2 things -

1. Probably as they came into existence, living beings have responded to environment and somehow such 'response' to the external factors began to get 'wired' into their... being, and went to be passed on to their off-springs, somewhat like DNA or maybe it is DNA program.

2. Maybe they were programmed that way since the time they came into being?

My intention is to see if we can "unwire" time from matter.

^^ the ultimate question of this subject!:)

IDK KU... time seems real only when we have matter.. :p ..but it could be there even minus matter, we can never know.. Or maybe because it is already there that we can notice it when there's matter brought into the picture... ?

Sometimes, I feel there's only 'stillness' and that time is just what we assign to interaction between matter..

What do you say, KU?