Exploitation of employee or blackmail of employer? (Khobragade case)

First Previous

Page

Next Last

Frequent Posters

441597

Suspended

Posted: 11 years ago

#271

This "small lil thang" is a huge-ass issue fo' us. Ain't no International Mafia's "ow-soo-just" attitude being swallowed like that by us.

Quote

BirdieNumNum

@CuckooCutter7

Dazzler

Posted: 11 years ago

#272

Originally posted by: K.Universe.

As far as I know, there was only one letter which was also the "diary" entry that was posted on Facebook. That was written (purportedly) by Sangeeta as soon as she landed here; any number of things could have changed after that point up until the time Sangeeta left.

If we bought into Sangeeta's innocence, you bought into Devyani's. So, let's not make it look like you were unbiased and looked at the story objectively.

What actually happened remains shrouded because Devyani chose to leave the country rather than face the charges and prove her innocence. You could say the same about Sangeeta I guess, that she could have gone back to India and sorted things out, but knowing what I know about that country, there is no way in hell she could have gotten a fair trial there, especially with the entire government machinery 100% behind Devyani. Can I prove what I know? No. Do I think what I know stands for itself? Absolutely!

What, you cant prove what you know? And one supposes you will not be doing any proving even though you want proofs from us. What's good for the desi goose aint any good for no yankee ganders no more, is it?😆

the american at the US embassy in delhi who helped evacuate sangeeta richards inlaws is a powerful guy in diplomatic security. This whole thing was apparently conducted at his behest. He was powerful enough to issue T-cards at his sole jurisdiction. The richards family worked for him. So it seems the powerful family is the richards family, not devyani. 😉

second, Indian wheels of justice might grind slowly and might even help wrong doers evade justice. But we dont manufacture evidence like WMDs and dead kuwaiti babies.No sir, that we dont do. That the US does. I'd take indian justice any day over bizarre rule books the yanks have, and i'd take indian courts any day over the words of that cowboy american.

by the way, did you hear non-farm payroll came in much lower than expectations. It might be the inclement weather, but it looks like they're not hiring nannies and burger flippers any more. At 50K a pop, who'd hire a nanny? Tiger Woods?😆

Edited by BirdieNumNum - 11 years ago

Quote

Looks like you are new here. Register for free, learn and contribute.

@K.Universe.

Voyager

Posted: 11 years ago

#273

Originally posted by: BirdieNumNum

the american at the US embassy in delhi who helped evacuate sangeeta richards inlaws is a powerful guy in diplomatic security. This whole thing was apparently conducted at his behest. He was powerful enough to issue T-cards at his sole jurisdiction. The richards family worked for him. So it seems the powerful family is the richards family, not devyani.

The Khobragades are powerful enough to silence the Richards.

The Americans were smart enough to evacuate the Richards.

You are pitting the power of the Khoragades against that of the Richards. Invalid in my opinion. What you should be doing is pitting the power of the Khobragades against the smarts of the Americans. Of course, that would be a no contest. Jo bhi America ki chhatra chhaya mein honge, surakshit toh honge hi.

Quote

_Angie_

@_Angie_

Rocker

Posted: 11 years ago

#274

Originally posted by: Rehanism

Obviously its India's pejorative what perks it chooses to offer to foreign consuls and I don't care if Americans are given tax-free booze or golf club membership, but why this knee jerk reaction?
Even after pulling Devyani out of the prospect of conviction, she is not acquitted. She still faces an arrest in US as an ordinary citizen. So India with all its overreaction has only managed to evade justice, not get her out as innocent.

The retaliatory measures seem to be a universal occurrence and the US is no exception .Three Venezuelan diplomats were ordered out of the United States as recently as Oct 2013 in response to their government's decision to boot three U.S. officials from Venezuela, including the highest-ranking U.S. envoy in the country.

Moreover, the retaliatory measures also served to prove that the US diplomats were no sticklers for the rule book themselves.

The Indian "overreaction" should not be taken as a stand taken to prove the Indian diplomat's innocence (which certainly needs to be investigated) but for the unequal treatment meted to the Indian diplomat as compared to those from certain other countries by the US. Conventions of diplomacy were clearly flouted.

A member has mentioned the following incidence "Recently, 39-year-old French diplomat Pascal Mazurier was stripped, searched and put in jail by Indian police on the allegation of raping his child."

The complaint against this heinous crime was lodged by the diplomats own wife but even so the Bangalore police in India waited till they obtained a written statement from the ministry of external affairs on Pascal's status before arresting him.

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-06-19/bangalore/32316720_1_diplomatic-immunity-french-embassy-arrest

Such consideration seems to be the norm where dealings with foreign diplomats are concerned. India expected the same courtesy for their own diplomats posted elsewhere. In the current case, the US officials did not think it worth to inform the Indian officials about the impending arrest inspite of the several talks that had been going on between the two. This smacks of total disdain towards the country. What the Indian diplomat may have been accused of becomes secondary in this case. India simply asserted its rights for equal treatment for its diplomats.

Quote

_Angie_

@_Angie_

Rocker

Posted: 11 years ago

#275

Originally posted by: K.Universe.

I didn't want to get into constructing elaborate proofs as it would be too time consuming; but I suppose I could start off with the global integrity report. India's legal framework score is strong but actual implementation score is very weak. So is the overall score when measuring integrity.

https://www.globalintegrity.org/global/report-2011/

If you check the corruptions perceptions index, India ranks 94th amongst 177 surveyed nations.

http://www.transparency.org/country#IND

Well, these reports did not seem to prevent the Nobel-winning economist Joseph E Stiglitz in his observation that while corruption runs deep in India, the United States is a close competitor. 😆

http://www.domain-b.com/economy/worldeconomy/20140111_nobel_laureate.html

Quote

_Angie_

@_Angie_

Rocker

Posted: 11 years ago

#276

Originally posted by: K.Universe.

The Khobragades are powerful enough to silence the Richards.

The Americans were smart enough to evacuate the Richards.

You are pitting the power of the Khoragades against that of the Richards. Invalid in my opinion. What you should be doing is pitting the power of the Khobragades against the smarts of the Americans. Of course, that would be a no contest. Jo bhi America ki chhatra chhaya mein honge, surakshit toh honge hi.

Ha ha ha...phir chahe woh murderer ya rapist diplomat or non diplomat hi kyun na ho , american jo hai !?

Afsos ki Delhi ke US embassy officials ne jitni bhi jaal buni , unki lakh koshish ke bawjood Devyani surakshit India wapas pahunchne mein kamyaab ho hi gayi !

Does it make one wonder if there could possibly be some other power greater and smarter than America at work here? 😆

K, now you really need to go take a dip in the cool waters of the Yamuna. Its super cold right now. Suraksha ke saare daave wahan baith kar soch lena aur prove bhi kar lena . 😆

Quote

@K.Universe.

Voyager

Posted: 11 years ago

#277

Originally posted by: _Angie_

Well, these reports did not seem to prevent the Nobel-winning economist Joseph E Stiglitz in his observation that while corruption runs deep in India, the United States is a close competitor.

I said that I didn't trust that Sangeeta would get justice in India. Souro wanted to know on what basis I said that. I pointed out to the global integrity report as well as the corruption index. Those are real, perceptible numbers. What you provided is someone's opinion not backed by facts. The fact that he won a Nobel prize still doesn't lend credence to what he said, unless he backs his argument with numbers. The numbers are out there for anyone to see.

Now, stop engaging in eristic arguments Angie.

Originally posted by: _Angie_

K, now you really need to go take a dip in the cool waters of the Yamuna.

I live very near to the ocean. Most rivers flow towards them. Even otherwise, those rivers are for paapis to take a dubki. Not for a paap nashak like me.

Quote

441597

Suspended

Posted: 11 years ago

#278

Paap nashak? Whose paap? 😳

Quote

BirdieNumNum

@CuckooCutter7

Dazzler

Posted: 11 years ago

#279

Originally posted by: K.Universe.

I said that I didn't trust that Sangeeta would get justice in India. Souro wanted to know on what basis I said that. I pointed out to the global integrity report as well as the corruption index. Those are real, perceptible numbers. What you provided is someone's opinion not backed by facts. The fact that he won a Nobel prize still doesn't lend credence to what he said, unless he backs his argument with numbers. The numbers are out there for anyone to see.

Now, stop engaging in eristic arguments Angie.

I live very near to the ocean. Most rivers flow towards them. Even otherwise, those rivers are for paapis to take a dubki. Not for a paap nashak like me.

The fuzzy reports you are pointing out are Western productions and refer to corruption in governance, not the justice meted out by courts. If we look at the judicial side of things (as opposed to legislative/ executive), Indian courts might be notorious in that conviction rates are low and the wheels grind slowly. The positive is they generally do not wrongfully convict people. By contrast, US has high conviction rates. They'll find WMDs where none exist if it suits them.😆 And let me assure you that the near-perfect conviction rates in the US is not because they have iron-clad proof and objective law enforcement. It's a simple matter of plea bargain negotiations. If we throw the book at you and charge you with 100 counts and dozens of years in jail (which they are known to do), you will also cop a plea and hope to get off light. The asymmetry in the power wielded by the State is corrupt in my opinion, but of course you will not find that in any western index. So buddy, if they charge devyani with stuff that can lead to a 15 year sentence, she'd have to be very brave to not plead guilty and take their offer of just a dollar fine as restitution. Incidentally, that is what the US State Dept/ Bharara had offered her. India's MEA/ devyani did not agree to those terms, even with the threat of jail time looming large, so that should say something...

more importantly, one's got to be daft to think the so-called facts you are presenting have any objectivity or relevance in this case.😆 Every case is specific. One doesn't try cases with generalizations of the kind you are presenting.

in this case, the fact remains that an "ugly american" and his wife had contempt for indians (check out various references in social media. Now that's what we should call fact😉). He thumbed his nose at the indians by giving the richards a T-visa. That's a lot of arrogance on his part to assume that what his employees (richards family) told him was the full story, that they would not get justice in india, that he alone was to be the arbitrator of that justice, and that it was his mission to "save" them. Heck, even Kasab did not need much "saving" for years even when his crimes were there for the world to see.😆

Ultimately the power that Devyani had was nothing compared to what that bozo wielded. He single-handedly spirited away the richards family, did not allow facts to be unearthed by indian courts, called up buddies in the State who got devyani arrested, and the rest is history...So please, after all that dont say devyani had more power than the richards. The richards had access. Access is what it's all about, something US lobbyists pay dearly to US legislators to gain access to.😊.

bottom-line, building a case around what an ugly american pounced upon is as looney-tunes as building a case for WMDs that another mad cowboy did. I'd go with indian justice in this case.

Quote

BirdieNumNum

@CuckooCutter7

Dazzler

Posted: 11 years ago

#280

below from TOI. the implication seems to be that Govt of India was aware all along that their consuls would have to underpay their help... One can only assume that the Indian MEA was shocked that the Americans did not reciprocate and show any understanding... In any case, it's bizarre to think that this entire case from the US would not have arisen if Indian MOF had agreed to fund. In my mind, it sort of shifts culpability if any away from devyani. Given that we are an emerging market and not an affluent one like the US, i would not even fault the MEA/ MOF for being a bit careful with our funds. It seems ridiculous from an indian perspective to be paying a maid 50K USD (when they are doing the same work as substantially maids in india that earn much lower, and even the median US income). IMO, the americans were just too arrogant in wanting all the one-sided gestures but in giving none to a friendly govt... It's like having a poor guy come visiting and insisting he bring rich goodies. Not done.😊

__________________________

.TOI excerpt:

The spokesperson also denied reports of more potential Khobragade-like cases in the US, saying the Indian government was considering a proposal to change the status of Indian domestic helps, or Indian-based domestic assistants (IBDA).

He said a proposal "considering significant changes in the status" of such helps that Indian diplomats take to the US and Europe is under consideration with the government since the beginning of last year.

The government is studying the legal aspect of it as well as the financial implications of the IBDA.

Akbaruddin said senior officials of the ministries of external affairs and finance were trying to work out a solution.