Is Saif right?????? - Page 5

😲 how can you say that? Saif is wrong!!! 😉

Originally posted by: Willows

👏

Dear Madam;

please accept my sincere appologies, i was handicapped for want of information hence wrong salutation, since i now know, i will address you accordingly and to start with i have already corrected myself.

I appreciate and thank you for agreeing with me, coming to cheating, I also agree with you for I firmly believe that yes saif is indeed cheating, however as I said in my earlier posts on this thread, we all are human being and we make choices, depending on our value systems, this sometimes leads to somebody benefiting and some one losing, it is part of being a selfish human being.

Regarding amrita crying on saif shoulder, at that point of time, it was more of wonderful and exciting opportunity for saif to have a mature female as companion and he was enjoying her company, so he was more than happy about the entire situation, it was Amrita who should have exercised some restraint and understood the long term consequences of such relationship before throwing in the towel.

That's an interesting view.

However, do you really think when someone falls in love, he or she is really in a position to see what is lying in front of them after 15 long years?

Besides, since when has the age gap been a reason for divorce? We have had quite a few successful relationships where the men younger to their wives remained happily married to them as long as they lived - Asha Bhonsle and RD Burman, Lalita Pawar and her husband G.P Pawar, Shammi Kapoor and Geeta Bali, Shashi kapoor and Jennifer, Sunil Dutt and Nargis to name a few in yester years....we still have some great examples in Sachin Tendulkar and Anjali , Arjun Rampal and Mihir Jessia , Anupam Kher and Kiron Kher....and hope they have a very happy and a long married life...in fact, inspite of having some initial hiccups, Aditya Pancholi and Zarina Wahab too are doing pretty well !!!! And here I am talking of couples where on an average, the man is almost 10 years younger to his wife !!

Whereas the men older to their wives who have left them for greener pastures as soon as they got a chance are so many that I won't even bother to name any, though an Amir Khan or a Feroz Khan or a Sanjay Khan or a Raj Babbar or a Nana Patekar immediately springs to the mind. In fact the latter has been more a case than the former.....in fact, even in our day to day life, the men who shamelessly cheat often have beautiful unsuspecting young wives and waiting kids back at home they think little about...

All those who are married or are in a serious relationship know that every relationship has it's ups and down and often a member can get attracted towards another person...but whether he or she strays or not is the true test of a character. Giving in to your selfish needs knowing somebody will suffer is pure selfish and low. I beleive the ability to carry out a responsibility and commitment is more a character trait than an age factor.

What Saif did was wrong. He remained married and kept on announcing his love to her till about two years back - the stage when he was (a) a young man( b) struggling (c) and was growing into a so called mature guy. If the decision had been wrong by Amrita, he would have left her when he was 25, not when he is 35,especially not when his kids are growing and need their father as a full time father, not as a left over piece meal 😡!!!!

The problem with today's society is this sab chalta hai attitude. I can understand if there is torture, but infidelity because one is bored and kids don't really matter??? That does not speak well of anyone, be it Saif or any Tom Dick or Harry.

I know I would have taken Amrita to the cleaners as well if she had dumped her two young kids and her doting husband who stood with her thru difficult times for a young available stud !!!!

I also know how bad and rejected a child feels when his/her father chooses another female over him/her and the mother.....

Originally posted by: Minnie

That's an interesting view.

However, do you really think when someone falls in love, he or she is really in a position to see what is lying in front of them after 15 long years?

Besides, since when has the age gap been a reason for divorce? We have had quite a few successful relationships where the men younger to their wives remained happily married to them as long as they lived - Asha Bhonsle and RD Burman, Lalita Pawar and her husband G.P Pawar, Shammi Kapoor and Geeta Bali, Shashi kapoor and Jennifer, Sunil Dutt and Nargis to name a few in yester years....we still have some great examples in Sachin Tendulkar and Anjali , Arjun Rampal and Mihir Jessia , Anupam Kher and Kiron Kher....and hope they have a very happy and a long married life...in fact, inspite of having some initial hiccups, Aditya Pancholi and Zarina Wahab too are doing pretty well !!!! And here I am talking of couples where on an average, the man is almost 10 years younger to his wife !!

Whereas the men older to their wives who have left them for greener pastures as soon as they got a chance are so many that I won't even bother to name any, though an Amir Khan or a Feroz Khan or a Sanjay Khan or a Raj Babbar or a Nana Patekar immediately springs to the mind. In fact the latter has been more a case than the former.....in fact, even in our day to day life, the men who shamelessly cheat often have beautiful unsuspecting young wives and waiting kids back at home they think little about...

All those who are married or are in a serious relationship know that every relationship has it's ups and down and often a member can get attracted towards another person...but whether he or she strays or not is the true test of a character. Giving in to your selfish needs knowing somebody will suffer is pure selfish and low. I beleive the ability to carry out a responsibility and commitment is more a character trait than an age factor.

What Saif did was wrong. He remained married and kept on announcing his love to her till about two years back - the stage when he was (a) a young man( b) struggling (c) and was growing into a so called mature guy. If the decision had been wrong by Amrita, he would have left her when he was 25, not when he is 35,especially not when his kids are growing and need their father as a full time father, not as a left over piece meal 😡!!!!

The problem with today's society is this sab chalta hai attitude. I can understand if there is torture, but infidelity because one is bored and kids don't really matter??? That does not speak well of anyone, be it Saif or any Tom Dick or Harry.

I know I would have taken Amrita to the cleaners as well if she had dumped her two young kids and her doting husband who stood with her thru difficult times for a young available stud !!!!

I also know how bad and rejected a child feels when his/her father chooses another female over him/her and the mother.....

Dear Minnie

Thanks for the reply, I appreciate your views, your views are also convincing, I agree it is indeed very difficult to visualize what is going to happen in next 5 years and15 years is too long time to even have some sort of imagination of things to come.

The reason for divorce could be anything and age, well the famous case is of Jemenia and Imran, she was 18 when Imran was 36 and they got married and this marriage had long term destruction for Jemenia, for when she split with Imran she was no more young to choose a person of her choice and her options were restricted to equally old Hugh Grant, unfortunately for Jemenia her wrong choice at 18 had long term implications.

Well as I firmly believe and also said in the earlier posts, men are just being what they are selfish human being, and they believe that horses and men never get old hence the young wife's are at home while the horses are going on with their routine. (Trust no would mind the reference of men and horse for it is a compliment that they do not grow old at least as far as their desire for 🤬 is concerned)

I think serious is too serious a word to be taken seriously in today fast paced materialistic world where values are taken for granted and compromised for anything and everything.

I agree saif advertised his wares (of love) for amrita for obvious reasons and at first available opportunity sold it off to the highest bidder and most attractive buyer, but I believe this is the way it is, he just playing a part of one of the species called human being on the earth, I believe such human being exists and are normal and yes they have cheated as far as someone who cherish such values, for someone like me who is just a spectator, cheating is something unless it has long lasting social implication to the society, no cheating, hence I say he is no cheater.

I appreciate the biggest loss is for the kids, in that sense west is the best as far as marriage and having kid is concerned they just do not have them, for not only they save legal costs but also save them from pain and anger.

Disclaimer: As my signature suggest these are my personal beliefs and no offence is intended.

Originally posted by: Willows

Dear Minnie

Thanks for the reply, I appreciate your views, your views are also convincing, I agree it is indeed very difficult to visualize what is going to happen in next 5 years and15 years is too long time to even have some sort of imagination of things to come.

The reason for divorce could be anything and age, well the famous case is of Jemenia and Imran, she was 18 when Imran was 36 and they got married and this marriage had long term destruction for Jemenia, for when she split with Imran she was no more young to choose a person of her choice and her options were restricted to equally old Hugh Grant, unfortunately for Jemenia her wrong choice at 18 had long term implications.

Well as I firmly believe and also said in the earlier posts, men are just being what they are selfish human being, and they believe that horses and men never get old hence the young wife's are at home while the horses are going on with their routine. (Trust no would mind the reference of men and horse for it is a compliment that they do not grow old at least as far as their desire for 🤬 is concerned)

I think serious is too serious a word to be taken seriously in today fast paced materialistic world where values are taken for granted and compromised for anything and everything.

I agree saif advertised his wares (of love) for amrita for obvious reasons and at first available opportunity sold it off to the highest bidder and most attractive buyer, but I believe this is the way it is, he just playing a part of one of the species called human being on the earth, I believe such human being exists and are normal and yes they have cheated as far as someone who cherish such values, for someone like me who is just a spectator, cheating is something unless it has long lasting social implication to the society, no cheating, hence I say he is no cheater.

I appreciate the biggest loss is for the kids, in that sense west is the best as far as marriage and having kid is concerned they just do not have them, for not only they save legal costs but also save them from pain and anger.

Disclaimer: As my signature suggest these are my personal beliefs and no offence is intended.

Yes Willows, it's a debate and it is always interesting to hear another side of anything, as I do beleive that there are two sides to a coin. Thank you for appreciating my pov 😊

If we take out the age factor, then the main reason for most of the breakups normally is as old as human itself, and that is infidelity and the ability to recognise and carry out responsibility and be loyal.

Originally posted by: Willows

for someone like me who is just a spectator, cheating is something unless it has long lasting social implication to the society, no cheating, hence I say he is no cheater.

That is a magnanmous view and I guess there are many who beleive that men are born to be infidel and hence their straying is of no consequence and hence cannot be termed as cheating......however, there are a few like me who still beleive loyalty - be it to your parents, to your spouse, to your friends or to your country.....all are a characteristic trait and hence any shortfall betrayal and is cheating.

Originally posted by: Willows

cheating is something unless it has long lasting social implication to the society

Again, cheating in most cases result in divorce. And how much of that has a long term social implication, let me put forth by the help of an article published by Edwin J. Feulner:

Heritage Foundation researchers Patrick Fagan and Robert Rector recently reviewed hundreds of articles and studies from leading social science journals to chart what they call "the downward spiral of family breakdown." Their report is a sobering read.

Consider the link between crime rates and family structure. You can actually use the divorce rate in a given area to predict its level of crime, according to University of Chicago sociology professor Robert Sampson, who studied 171 U.S. cities with populations above 100,000 and found that the lower a city's divorce rate, the lower its crime rate.

Another study tracked 6,400 boys over 20 years and found those who grew up without fathers in the home were two to three times more likely to commit crimes. In Wisconsin (the only state to release government data on the link between divorce and crime), children of divorced parents are 12 times more likely to serve time in jail than are children from intact, two-parent families.

Then there's the connection between divorce and poverty. According to Mary Corcoran, a political science professor at the University of Michigan, household income for children living with two parents averaged $43,600. It dropped to $25,300 following a divorce.

Studies also show divorce affects education. High school dropout rates are much higher among children of divorced parents than among children of always-married parents, and the children of divorce are 60 percent less likely to attend college than children from always-married parents. Girls from intact families are also far less likely to skip school.

The effect of divorce on sexual behavior is noteworthy, too. U.S. and British studies show that daughters of divorced parents are more likely to engage in pre-marital sex. African-American girls are 42 percent less likely to have sex before age 18 if they live at home with their biological fathers. But a stepfather can have the opposite effect, with one study of Hispanic-American girls finding this makes them 72 percent more likely to have sex before 18.

The list of harmful effects goes on......

No one is saying that getting out of a marriage should be impossible but shouldn't be a little more harder?

Originally posted by: Willows

in that sense west is the best as far as marriage and having kid is concerned they just do not have them, for not only they save legal costs but also save them from pain and anger.

That again is a great misnomer. Contrary to the popular belief, break up in the West is as painful for the parties concerned as any other. Also, here people don't escape marriage or having kids not because they want it that way but because in most cases they fail to find a partner who wants to take on the resposibility - again a direct fall out of broken families........it leaves most of them so scared and scarred that they panick at the thought of responsibilities ......if this is not a long term implication of cheating, infidelity and broken homes, then nothing is.

PS: Ummmm......I noticed a very interesting thing : In Amrita - Saif relationship, you said earlier that Amrita was wrong at having chosen Saif as he was so young.....and again, at Jemina-Imran relationship, you again implied that it was Jemina whose choice was wrong as Imran was so old; In both cases the woman has been indirectly blamed for the break up,in both cases women are made to take the blame of their choices while the men go scott free.....though this again is a completely different topic of discussion, but l feel laying the blame of a broken marriage at the woman's door is grossly wrong .

Besides if aging of a women was really a case than there would have been no marriages of older women and younger men..😉

u guys seem very serious on this topic...gr8 replies everyone.
my personal view is that if saif knows that he wont be happy with amrita then instead of ignoring the feelin, he should do something about it, cos if he doesnt things may get worse. so thats wot he did. and i think he's right 😳

👏 Minnie, whenever you have a debate, you cover all aspect and all arguments. I don't have much to say after what you said.

One cannot create their own definations when you live in same society and eventhough, I don't agree with Willow's view about "cheating is something unless it has long lasting social implication to the society", article you posted is more than enough to prove it's long lasting social implication.

Also willows, "west is best..." statement, I don't think thats true. How can you say that they do not have kids for this reason? This is very naive statement. People in West do have kids, and trust me life after marriage in West is pretty much same as US. Husband or Wife having affair after marriage is NOT accepted by society in West and it is termed as "affair". They may be dating tons of people before marriage, but once they commit marital bond same rule applies to them as in our culture. And they do have same pain and anger as we do when the relashionship comes to end.

Again, I am not saying that getting divorce is wrong. Please read carefully, getting divorce out of unsuccessfull relashionsihop is not wrong, BUT to date someone or commit to some other person when you are already married and have kids IS wrong!!

Originally posted by: bgdesai

Again, I am not saying that getting divorce is wrong. Please read carefully, getting divorce out of unsuccessfull relashionsihop is not wrong, BUT to date someone or commit to some other person when you are already married and have kids IS wrong!!

Bang on target bg !!! Getting out of the relationship is not wrong if it's truly not working but gettig into an affair and cheating your wife is.

Dear Minnie;
Thanks for the response, I appreciate your point of view and what you feel is right / wrong.

That is a magnanimous view and I guess there are many who believe that men are born to be infidel and hence their straying is of no consequence and hence cannot be termed as cheating......however, there are a few like me who still believe loyalty - be it to your parents, to your spouse, to your friends or to your country.....all are a characteristic trait and hence any shortfall betrayal and is cheating.

Dear minnie i am not magnamous nor a diplomatic person and I speak my mind, I write, what is feel is right, and anyone and everyone has a right to feel I am wrong,and what I feel is right could be indeed wrong for others.
I believe the variety in values of human beings is unbelievable but most of them are same as far as infidelity is concerned, loyalty is attribute which is cherished by all, but practiced by few, deceit and intrigue is order of the day as far as short term gains are concerned, be it with colleagues at office or even country.

Again, cheating in most cases result in divorce.

I appreciate there are people who cheat for they want divorce, and hence cheating could be means at times, for the desired end " divorce".

That again is a great misnomer. Contrary to the popular belief, break up in the West is as painful for the parties concerned as any other. Also, here people don't escape marriage or having kids not because they want it that way but because in most cases they fail to find a partner who wants to take on the resposibility - again a direct fall out of broken families........it leaves most of them so scared and scarred that they panick at the thought of responsibilities ......if this is not a long term implication of cheating, infidelity and broken homes, then nothing is.
PS: Ummmm......I noticed a very interesting thing : In Amrita - Saif relationship, you said earlier that Amrita was wrong at having chosen Saif as he was so young.....and again, at Jemina-Imran relationship, you again implied that it was Jemina whose choice was wrong as Imran was so old; In both cases the woman has been indirectly blamed for the break up,in both cases women are made to take the blame of their choices while the men go scott free.....though this again is a completely different topic of discussion, but l feel laying the blame of a broken marriage at the woman's door is grossly wrong .
Besides if aging of a women was really a case than there would have been no marriages of older women and younger men..

The point I believe is that people in west in order to avoid legal costs do not marry and have live in relationship and also do not have kids and thereby preempt the agony or broken marriage on children.
I do not disagree with you that the pain is different to different people whether in west or in India, the hurt has a universal application.

I do not say that men can go scott free, I say "caveat emptor" for the loss is biggest is for the women in case the relationship does succeed.

I again agree with you that there are and will always be cases of older men/ women marrying young / elder men women and so would be cases like Saif and debates like ours.

PS: Ummmm..... In case of Jenifier Aniston, i am supporting Jen and believe Brad as villian.😉, trust you have noticed my views on the debate JEN and Jolie in the debate mansion.

Originally posted by: sowmyaa

👏 Minnie, whenever you have a debate, you cover all aspect and all arguments. I don't have much to say after what you said.

One cannot create their own definations when you live in same society and eventhough, I don't agree with Willow's view about "cheating is something unless it has long lasting social implication to the society", article you posted is more than enough to prove it's long lasting social implication.

Also willows, "west is best..." statement, I don't think thats true. How can you say that they do not have kids for this reason? This is very naive statement. People in West do have kids, and trust me life after marriage in West is pretty much same as US. Husband or Wife having affair after marriage is NOT accepted by society in West and it is termed as "affair". They may be dating tons of people before marriage, but once they commit marital bond same rule applies to them as in our culture. And they do have same pain and anger as we do when the relashionship comes to end.

Again, I am not saying that getting divorce is wrong. Please read carefully, getting divorce out of unsuccessfull relashionsihop is not wrong, BUT to date someone or commit to some other person when you are already married and have kids IS wrong!!

Dear sowmyaa;

I appreciate that you have different views, what i wrote is my personal beliefs and i always believe that i could be wrong.

again i appreciate your views, what i believe as far as my knowledge goes, people in european countries do not enter into a legal relationship and avoid having kids, which i believe is a provision for realtionship not going the desired way and because they do not have a legal commitment they avoid unnecessary costs and formalities, they very fact they are fine with this arrangement is a reflection of they being realisitic that they make not stay in the relationship for ever.