All talk about protectionism from ---

bilu thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago
#1
All the talk about protectionism from marathis abroad 😕( as pe NDTV site)and supporting Raj Thakarey and his actions is very sad and disheartening. if you people living in another country support actions of Raj's Goondas then you have no idea of what is happenimng in India!! If you support him and say this is protectionism (beating/ killing innocent studentsfrom poor families who have no money in their pocket but have worked hard to appear for all india exams!! I) Then you should support Al-qayida as it is aslo protecting its people , you should support support IM as it is also protecting some people , you should support Bajrang Dal as it is also protecting some people Etc etc .. GOD SAVE INDIA from what is ahead if these are the means by which people will protect each other🤢

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chal_phek_mat thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago
#2
Let us be very clear on what the basis of the foundation of the Indian state was

It was based upon regional domain, respecting everyone's regional identity, assimilating the migrants but retaining its originality.

As an example

If I go to Tamil Nadu, try to set up a business of my own, I have to respect the local identity and try to conduct the business in the regional language as much as possible if I want to keep a profitable business. When a contract is awarded to me I have to look at the benefit of my business first, my local community second and my original community the last. If I fail to do so, I have to expect the local businesses to run me out of the town. The same would go for working individuals too.

I have no problems with that whatsoever given how the Indian state and how our fellow citizens act
If I have no problem with the above, I have no problem with what the "son of the soil" theory that Raj Thackeray advocates
If I have to criticize that theory, I have to acknowledge the Maharastrian state has not upto this point behaved this way, but the other states of the union have. so if I have to start criticizing Raj Thackeray and his party for this, I have to stand in a line, first I should be condemning a lot of other states and their leaders before I get to Raj Thackeray and his brotherhood
FYI, this sentiment is not only supported by NRI Maharastrians , but by most marathi's , but by most Gujrathi, most Bengali, most Tamil, most Delhiate's, most Haryaniate, most Telegu, but only for their own region. You want to take it deeper, you will also see this on religious, castiest basis and that is the truth about India, actually Indians in general
if dont beleive me, go try to set up shop in Ahmedabad or Chennai or Hyderabad or Mumbai or New York and when you bid for contracts against fellow Indians you will realize what it is.
But
If this debate is initiated to discuss theories of India, then
India is a single nation😆, a citizen has equal rights in all parts of the country😆 no matter what his/her religion/caste/regional identity is😆 and Raj Thackeray is a criminal with seperatist motives, along with seperatists with different colors like mayawati, Lalu, Mulayam,Advani,Karunanidhi, Arjun Singh, Karat's, MMS,Modi, Bal Thackeray etc etc.😉
200467 thumbnail
Posted: 16 years ago
#3
[quote=chal_phek_mat]
If I have no problem with the above, I have no problem with what the "son of the soil" theory that Raj Thackeray advocates
[/quote]

I really hope you stay this understanding and supportive if, god forbids, a time comes when people belonging to your part of the world, religion, race and culture are beaten out of the U.S. (or whichever part of the world they migrated to) After all, you have "no problems" with this "son of the soil" theory😉

I think Raj Thackrey is the sorriest excuse for a human being. The guy is driven by the divide and rule politics. Take political mileage out of his whole "jihad" and one will see him changing color like a chameleon. He is the biggest clown ever in a country full of clowns. I now place him above and beyond the Lalus and Paswaans of India🤢.


Edited by Gauri_3 - 16 years ago
200467 thumbnail
Posted: 16 years ago
#4
Just heard on the news that Bal T. is trying to take the credit for what MSN did😆 He is worried Raj T. will get all the political mileage and claim a share of his vote bank too if he doesn't speak up. Hence, Bal T. is getting ants in his pants and is openly claiming that it was his shiv sena that started the "hate brigade" first😆 Height of insecurity and desperation...I tell ya. Both chacha-bhateeja are divided on who divided the nation first...boley toh sab sey bada gunda kaun😛

Yeh politics bhi na. Yeh dono apney khoon key sagey naheen aur chaley hain marathi manoos key sagey ban ney😉😆 Aaj agar bihari ya u.p.ites inhey vote deney lagey toh yeh dono marathi manoos ko do chapat laga ker side mein baitha dey aur awaz bhi na nikalney dey😛
chal_phek_mat thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago
#5

Originally posted by: Gauri_3

[quote=chal_phek_mat]
If I have no problem with the above, I have no problem with what the "son of the soil" theory that Raj Thackeray advocates
[/quote]

I really hope you stay this understanding and supportive if, god forbids, a time comes when people belonging to your part of the world, religion, race and culture are beaten out of the U.S. (or whichever part of the world they migrated to) After all, you have "no problems" with this "son of the soil" theory😉

I think Raj Thackrey is the sorriest excuse for a human being. The guy is driven by the divide and rule politics. Take political mileage out of his whole "jihad" and one will see him changing color like a chameleon. He is the biggest clown ever in a country full of clowns. I now place him above and beyond the Lalus and Paswaans of India🤢.


I see you are not objecting to the point, just the methods not the basis of the theory😉.
now to answer your other point, If where I live this were to happen
If in where I live, if a company were to be formed which only excluded people of one section/community/religion/race/gender, they will get sued their pants off by someone. See everyone has equal protection where I live, If the govt or judiciary failed to intervene they will get picketed and things might get a little friskier too😆. When emotions are those high things tends to happen. Nobody favors voilence anywhere but stuff like that happens. I assume that is the same where you live too😉.
if you take this same thing and apply here in this case, yes the methods that Raj Thackarey might be questionable depending on which side of the aisle you are on.
Now I am sure you are going to say the same things about the business folks and the political leaders who close out competitors just on the basis of race/religion/gender/community, dont physically harm them but just drive them out nonetheless.
The followup step is , let the legislators in India get together and outlaw the practices put forward in this theory and follow it through vigourously irrespective what race/religion/community/region/gender the perpretor belongs to. If they dont do anything about it and just blame Raj for saying what everyone is doing, then I feel they are worser people than Raj Thackeray is. And given the whole outcry around India that is what is happening, pretty typical of the Indian public and the legislators, look for symbolism but not do anything to resolve the root of the problem🤢
The reason why I dont condemn Raj is atleast he has the guts to take it out in the open by this method the problem is out open to everyone to discuss. If all of us condemn Raj, what happens is we put him behind bars, shut his voice off and return to the business as usual which is not OK given the fact that we are a multi-regional, multi-regilous, multi-gender, multi-community country and we need to have a level playing field for everyone to grow in equal proportion
His voilent actions certainly are condemnable just like the actions of other places where these things are happen, see atleast I am not a hypocrite😃
Edited by chal_phek_mat - 16 years ago
200467 thumbnail
Posted: 16 years ago
#6

Originally posted by: chal_phek_mat

I see you are not objecting to the point, just the methods not the basis of the theory😉.
You are wrong here. I am opposed to the whole enchilada here - the point, the method, and the theory.
now to answer your other point, If where I live this were to happen
If in where I live, if a company were to be formed which only excluded people of one section/community/religion/race/gender, they will get sued their pants off by someone. See everyone has equal protection where I live, If the govt or judiciary failed to intervene they will get picketed and things might get a little friskier too😆. When emotions are those high things tends to happen. Nobody favors voilence anywhere but stuff like that happens. I assume that is the same where you live too😉.
I do live where you live and I come from the same background as you....oh wait...I think we are totally different since I am no marathi manoos😛. I happen to consider myself an Indian first😃
We all take pride in maintainin our own identity, preserving our own culture, refusing to blend in with the american society, working twice as hard than a fellow american, at times, for lesser pay. We do share their resources with them while looking down on their culture and touting and flaunting our culture. How are we better off than all those people belonging to different states who call mumbai their home? If beating them up and driving them out of mumbai is justifiable then so is us getting beaten up and driven out of this country.
As far as having strict laws - we all know India's situation as far as corruption is concerned. How is Raj T.'s voilence and Bal T. despo attempts at taking the credit making the political situation in India any better? Take out the vote bank benefit and you'll see both their true faces.
if you take this same thing and apply here in this case, yes the methods that Raj Thackarey might be questionable depending on which side of the aisle you are on.
Might be????? questionable???? They are DEAD WRONG....period.
Now I am sure you are going to say the same things about the business folks and the political leaders who close out competitors just on the basis of race/religion/gender/community, dont physically harm them but just drive them out nonetheless.
Listen, I am against this regional fanaticism and I also oppose the resulting backlash against marathis in other states. You can try to justify it based on your own twisted rationale but for me - it's plain wrong.
The followup step is , let the legislators in India get together and outlaw the practices put forward in this theory and follow it through vigourously irrespective what race/religion/community/region/gender the perpretor belongs to. If they dont do anything about it and just blame Raj for saying what everyone is doing, then I feel they are worser people than Raj Thackeray is. And given the whole outcry around India that is what is happening, pretty typical of the Indian public and the legislators, look for symbolism but not do anything to resolve the root of the problem🤢
This is no way of resolving the "root problem" in case one exists here. Who is stopping marathis from going out and trying their hand at competitive entrance exams in other states or set up buisiness in other states? What Raj T. is doing or Bal T. is so desperate to take credit for is dirty politics to the core. Like I said before, yeh log apney khoon key sagey naheen. Take the political mileage out and I would love to see how true they remain to people of their own region.
The reason why I dont condemn Raj is atleast he has the guts to take it out in the open by this method the problem is out open to everyone to discuss. If all of us condemn Raj, what happens is we put him behind bars, shut his voice off and return to the business as usual which is not OK given the fact that we are a multi-regional, multi-regilous, multi-gender, multi-community country and we need to have a level playing field for everyone to grow in equal proportion
If you were a non-marathi Indian, would you still have felt the same? See, my point is if something can't be uniformly accepetd across the people of all regions then chances are it is not good for the country as a whole.
You have your vested interests based on your regional affiliations with Raj and Bal T. hence you feel he is right. Deep down, even you know he is looking for what he can get out of it. He really doesn't give a damn about the marathi people. If he did, he wouldn't harm their image like this OR make them hate targets in other states.
His voilent actions certainly are condemnable just like the actions of other places where these things are happen, see atleast I am not a hypocrite😃
Oh, I never called you a hypocrite...and you'll be no hypocrite if you accept here that the backlash against marathis outside maharashtra is just and fair too😉 Unlike you, I am condemning both - Raj T. and the resulting maar pitai of maharashtriyans in other parts of India.

As it is, our country is totally divided based on castes, religion and soci economic stature. Last we need is regional divide of masses as well as intelligentia. It is so apparent for all to see how all this is a mere political gimmick. If you are gainst reservations based on class and gender then how could you support this forced reservation based on region?....and you claim you are not hypocrite😛
Most indian politicains are bad. No matter how they present their case, in the end it's the common public that ends up being a loser coz the politicains keep forming and breaking allinaces with all sort of parties - even their so called idelogical opponents. You want to put your faith and trust in the goons like Raj, then good for you but please do not claim it's for the betterment of maharashtriyans. Voilence against your fellow innocent countrymen can never benefit anyone - never ever.
It's no better or no different than what al-qaida is doing all across the globe. they are using religion and thackreys are using region. Wait a while and thackreys will further make it a "jihad" for marathi hindus only...then upper cast marathi hindus...then may be just brahmin marathis. Hate never stops at one point. It keeps on spreading and further dividing the poeple.
Edited by Gauri_3 - 16 years ago
chal_phek_mat thumbnail
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Posted: 16 years ago
#7

Originally posted by: chal_phek_mat

But
If this debate is initiated to discuss theories of India, then
India is a single nation😆, a citizen has equal rights in all parts of the country😆 no matter what his/her religion/caste/regional identity is😆 and Raj Thackeray is a criminal with seperatist motives, along with seperatists with different colors like mayawati, Lalu, Mulayam,Advani,Karunanidhi, Arjun Singh, Karat's, MMS,Modi, Bal Thackeray etc etc.😉

As I said if this is a theoretical debate, my position is one and if it is a practical debate my position is another
I see you want to fight the theoretical debate here
Ok let us do this the theoretical way then and perhaps and take it nothing like this exists in the minds of anyone but the Thackeray's and the supporting Marathi's. Then the burden of proof falls upon you to have explaination for the following😉
India is divided into various states based upon the regional ethnicity, so according to you that is wrong too😉
India is still getting divided into various substates and is used as election plank http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspirant_states_of_India, so according to you that is totally non-existant or wrong too this too is on regional basis, some of those struggles have been voilent and that is worser since they started and gave the idea to Raj, who is a newcomer to the arena😆
In India when you try to form a business in various locations your success is dependant on what community you belong to, so according to you that is a figment of imagination
In India in various organizations, national and local, govt and semi-govt there happen to be heavy concentration of employee's from a certain region. That perhaps according to you is just a effect of the education imparted in that region😆
The whole Article 370 to protect Kashmiryat is something that is totally wrong😉
If you were to establish a business in Mumbai, being a Gujrathi, it gives you a headstart in the process given the fact the requisite support system is there vs anyone else from any other region.
In India the railways are divided into 16 different regions, when there are vacancies the vacany postings are to be made in that regions newspapers and national newspapers(according to Railway Board rules), so when a exam for openings in the western region were held the exam notice actualy appeared in local newspapers in Bihar but not in the western region where they belonged and that was because somehow Bihar has relocated to western region and it was a total co-incidence the Railway Minister hails from Bihar😆
On a slightly less important but visible point when talent hunts are held in India, the voting all goes strictly based upon regional lines and in case Mumbai is polled the contestant from NCR polls higher and that according to you is also a co-incidence even though it happens every time b'cos the regional feelings are only in the minds of Thackerays and if you dont beleive what I am saying in a few months SRGMP will end and you will see the result matching my theory rather than yours😆
200467 thumbnail
Posted: 16 years ago
#8
As I said if this is a theoretical debate, my position is one and if it is a practical debate my position is another
I see you want to fight the theoretical debate here
[/quote]
Wrong again. I am against this blood shed on both theoritical and practical purposes. All RT ended up doing is glorifying the divisive ideology goonda parties like samajwadi party and third class politicians like Laloo and Paaswaan.
If RT thinks a problem really exists in mumbai then tackle it at the root cause. If he feels biharis/upites are increasing the goondagardi in the city then make sure the state police is nor corrupt and controls the bad elements of society - mano ya na mano some of them happen to be marathis too.
If RT thinks outsiders are taking up marathis jobs then enforce some more quota based on domicile. Pretty much most educational institutions already have enough quotas in maharashtra. Another 15% won't hurt anyone - right. But the fact remains these very same locals running these institutions absolutely adore it when "outsiders" come in, pay huge donations and churn out the fees and hostel money for 4-6 years. Jab job lene ki baat aati hai toh go back - not fair na.
If RT has guts and really cares for his city and it's people then he should be raising the voice against corruption, lawlessness, corrupt politicians, underworld dons and their support group etc. What is he trying to prove by beating up poor auto/taxiwallas who are working hard for their bread and butter or beating up innocent poeple who went there to write an exam?
The whole ideology behind this "marathi manoos" concept and the methodolgy of puting that faulty ideology is plain wrong here. None of the problems cited by RT's goondas justify the goondagardi they are indulging in. There are other legal ways to safeguard the interest of locals and those locals also includes million of non-marathi hardworking labor or professional.
Edited by Gauri_3 - 16 years ago
200467 thumbnail
Posted: 16 years ago
#9
Ok let us do this the theoretical way then and perhaps and take it nothing like this exists in the minds of anyone but the Thackeray's and the supporting Marathi's. Then the burden of proof falls upon you to have explaination for the following😉
India is divided into various states based upon the regional ethnicity, so according to you that is wrong too😉
[/quote]

This is how you perceive India. To me, various states having regional and ethnic diversity are united as one nation - India. That's why we refer to our country as "unity in diversity" not "diversity in unity"😊
Just to refresh your memory, the India we see today resulted from coming together of numerous riyaasats and rajwadas that were brought together under the DEMOCRATIC India's umbrella by Sardar Patel. Sardar saab was not acting as a gujrati when he accomplished this unification. He was acting as an Indian and all riyaasats were unified as one nation but were encouraged to keep their regional/cultural heritage alive - a democracy in true sense.
Now, if some misplaced goondas start playing politics of region or culture and fool their people into beleiving they are cuturally superior than the rest of the nation then that region is already doomed.
[quote=chal_phek_mat]
India is still getting divided into various substates and is used as election plank http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspirant_states_of_India, so according to you that is totally non-existant or wrong too this too is on regional basis, some of those struggles have been voilent and that is worser since they started and gave the idea to Raj, who is a newcomer to the arena😆
[/quote]
Toh tum maantey ho RT is doing all this for political mileage😉 The goon is taking the well tested path the bihari and upite politicians like laaloo and mylayam took - becoming politicains from a goon😉 Well, look like you agree with me then😛
Raj is carrying on what his uncle started. This is nothing but an attempt to woo the marathi speaking masses. Bal T. established shiv sena and made it popular after his anti-south tirade. Raj is copying the same to get his MSN more popular than shiv sena by playing the anti-north card.
This hate brigade is a desperate attempt to establish their supermacy and assure the marathi vote bank since samjwadi party was eyeing this state for their own vote bank. By spreading this hate and making commoners the target, RT ended up glorifying the likes of samajwadi party politicians. This, I feel, is the ugliest outcome of this whole unjustified war.
Edited by Gauri_3 - 16 years ago
200467 thumbnail
Posted: 16 years ago
#10
[quote=chal_phek_mat]
In India when you try to form a business in various locations your success is dependant on what community you belong to, so according to you that is a figment of imagination
[/quote]
Listen, no one is beating up marathis into buying goods from non-marathis shopkeepers/businesses. Fact remains people take their money where they get maximum worth out of it. If marathis do candid business, I fail to see why they won't be successful in their chosen professiona outside maharashtra. One can't force their shortcomings on others. Bottomline is - poeple will buy only if you give them either a better product or more of the same product irrespective of their regional biases....101 of economics😉
[quote=chal_phek_mat]
If you were to establish a business in Mumbai, being a Gujrathi, it gives you a headstart in the process given the fact the requisite support system is there vs anyone else from any other region.
[/quote]
I give more credit to gujratis for their savvy business knowledge than the city of mumbai here. Gujratis have established well flourishing businesses pretty much every where in the world. Chalo, maan letey hain tumhari baat ki unhoney mumbai mein apna sikka jama liya, arrey toh marathi manoos ko kis ney roka doosrey cities ya phir doosri countries mein business establish karney ko?
Take US as an example - here, pretty much all have the right to establish business without any backlash. How come we do not see marathis dpminating the motel or grocery store business then? You can't take the strengths of other communities and hold them responsible for the shortcomings of a particualr sect of people. Life doesn't work this way.
Edited by Gauri_3 - 16 years ago

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