Why The 'My Choice' Video Was Brilliant - Page 13

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642126 thumbnail
Posted: 10 years ago
I have seen a website use pics of male actors and point arrows towards their crotch and speculate about what's behind those pants.

It was a usual celeb gossip site. But was that not objectification?

Never saw any controversy around it. Or any male actor or well meaning surfer cry foul.

It's not right to assume what happened to DPad in cleavage controversy, never happened to male actors.

sayari_sanki99 thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago

Originally posted by: atominis

I have seen a website use pics of male actors and point arrows towards their crotch and speculate about what's behind those pants.

It was a usual celeb gossip site. But was that not objectification?

Never saw any controversy around it. Or any male actor or well meaning surfer cry foul.

It's not right to assume what happened to DPad in cleavage controversy, never happened to male actors.

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[If you replied to me]

There you go. Ok, I didn't know that before. Thanks for the information. I didn't assume anything. I just said that I never saw anything like that happening to a male actor, which is true. It's just when you said it that I learnt something new.

Then yes. That was objectification as well. And I would like to mention that it is cheap and disgusting. People should speak up and take a stand against it. I heartily appreciate Deepika and others who stood up against this type of cheap tactics.
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Edited by sayari.majumder - 10 years ago
998331 thumbnail
Posted: 10 years ago

Originally posted by: atominis

I have seen a website use pics of male actors and point arrows towards their crotch and speculate about what's behind those pants.

It was a usual celeb gossip site. But was that not objectification?

Never saw any controversy around it. Or any male actor or well meaning surfer cry foul.

It's not right to assume what happened to DPad in cleavage controversy, never happened to male actors.


Objectification is an issue for girls only.. err.. desi girls only


Bajirao Bakshy @bizzarebhide Feb 13


And yet these guys had a MAJOR problem with Deepika's cleavage being encircled. pic.twitter.com/cBLznkKsSS

return_to_hades thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago
I think few things come at play when it comes to objectification

1) Consent - Did they pose for the photograph of their own volition or did someone go out of the way to get that shot?
2) Social perceptions - Certain female parts are sexualized and taboo. A man can walk shirtless, but a woman cannot do so. Hence the objectification of a male six pack is not the same as a tabloid making a big fuss about cleavage and nip slips. There is also the conception that men are studs and women s**ts. Due to this men often take pride over people focusing on their girth and length, women are embarrassed when the focus is on their parts.
3) Volume - While there are several sources dedicated to objectify men - generally media is weighted more towards objectifying men.

For equality: Treat boobs and chests the same. Treat male and female abs the same. Treat package outlines and camel toes the same. Equalize the content of both genders. If a man or woman wants to be objectified and drooled over. Power to them. If a man or woman objects. Stop it.
642126 thumbnail
Posted: 10 years ago
I find these things disgusting. 🤢

They have slideshows of men with their fly open. Though encircling and highlighting women's body parts is more rampant.

It should be stopped. It's demeaning to everyone.

sayari_sanki99 thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago

Originally posted by: return_to_hades

I think few things come at play when it comes to objectification

1) Consent - Did they pose for the photograph of their own volition or did someone go out of the way to get that shot?
2) Social perceptions - Certain female parts are sexualized and taboo. A man can walk shirtless, but a woman cannot do so. Hence the objectification of a male six pack is not the same as a tabloid making a big fuss about cleavage and nip slips. There is also the conception that men are studs and women s**ts. Due to this men often take pride over people focusing on their girth and length, women are embarrassed when the focus is on their parts.
3) Volume - While there are several sources dedicated to objectify men - generally media is weighted more towards objectifying men.

For equality: Treat boobs and chests the same. Treat male and female abs the same. Treat package outlines and camel toes the same. Equalize the content of both genders. If a man or woman wants to be objectified and drooled over. Power to them. If a man or woman objects. Stop it.

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Great job! You explained it in a very nice way!👏
Meherbaan thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago

Originally posted by: cineraria

Hi Zee (guess that's what you are called 😃 *smacks her stalkery self*) a very well articulated response to the video, now if only the video had put across its message with this much clarity.

But I "choose" to accept your interpretation of it, which sounds quite nice actually, how I wish I didn't have to disagree with it, sadly I do, with a few things at least. I am certainly not here for an argument but a healthy discussion and hope I'd be afforded that.

Let's first start with the part I wholeheartedly agree with, why excoriate Ms. Padukone for presenting an idea, which wasn't born in her head? She didn't write that uninspired mediocre poetry. Heaven knows how bad it could have been if she had written it herself ! (hey it could even have been other way round 😃, but the chances are slim, very slim.) The only thing for which she deserves some flak is her barely tolerable English accent, but then again I am an engineering student, I am made to hear far worse accents on a daily basis 😔 (But can you blame optimistic lit'le me? I thought I'll watch her dazzling smile for 2 minutes 53 seconds, instead I ended up cringing hearing her speak)

But still guys cut Ms. Padukone some slack, all she did was to do what she does. Act. There was a director, she was given her lines, she recited them in her best monotone, put her shampoo ad hair (or wig?) on a pretty display (the good photography merits a mention too) and was paid some shit load of money you and I can only imagine earning from a friggin recitation.

That said lets come to the crux of the matter. The not so pretty things. As you have already pointed out, this campaign is not for the socio-economically backward rural women who are suppressed, who don't mostly have the choice of pursuing a career of their wishes and much less choosing their own life partner, in my words, those who really need empowerment. The target audience are us, urban educated young women, who have access to YouTube and understand English (and perhaps even cater to Vogue's fantasy of the profligate consumer) I'll keep that in mind throughout my argument.


You said:


What empowerment stands for, and what the video was trying to emphasize, is the importance of a woman's actions to be regarded equivalently to her male counterparts. If she has sex or an affair or decides to pursue her career... she deserves to be regarded exactly like her husband would be in a similar situation. That's it. That's all there is to it. Deepika Padukone is not encouraging girls to take their tops off and cheat on their husbands in the name of empowerment.


A benevolent idea indeed, not put to practice in India. Let's take career first. Girls have 20 to 40% reservation in all colleges across the country. I study in one of the countries oldest and reputed Government engineering colleges which has 30% reservation for girls. I hail from a city (not a big city just a city) surrounded by villages. I'll give you an example that presents the general state of affairs. My state rank was 90. An upper caste boy from the nearby village (oh yeah there is caste based reservation too, in some states up to 50%, imagine a girl from a reserved category, 50% plus 30%, and the works.) so this guy's state rank was 30. We both wanted computer science. I got it, he didn't. His father is a poor farmer, mine a prof. I had access to expensive tuitions, books. He did not. I pay Rs 15,000 as annual fee, because I am a girl. He pays Rs 80,000 for exactly the same education. True, we are not treated equally.


Sex. It's the urban Indian woman you are talking about, not a woman in Saudi Arabia and we have a choice, sure as hell we do. There are women in India who choose to indulge in pre marital sex and there are adulterous women too. But an adulterous man and an adulterous woman are certainly not treated equally.

IPC section 497, states that a man indulging in adultery may be imprisoned for 5 years and has to pay a hefty fine to the woman and family he cheated on. If the wife applies for it, she's granted divorce with much ease.

But there is no provision of any sort of how to deal with an adulterous woman. Wasn't her husband cheated? It specifically mentions, no action would be taken against an adulterous wife whatsoever.


There is also IPC section 498a , harassment over dowry and domestic abuse. If a woman files a complaint, her husband and his entire family (including children of age 2) would be sent behind bars immediately up to 3 years and cannot apply for bail. Because of the growing number of cases of women falsely accusing their husbands and family for personal vendetta, only in 2014 they introduced a nominal reform, they'd still be jailed, but only after a magistrate's order.

We assume though that men are never victims of domestic abuse, therefore there is no law for their protection. You'd be shocked to know the number of suicides in urban Indian males ascribed to domestic abuse. Imagine the level of despondency, they had no where to go. People laughed at them.


Why am I giving these examples, because yes, our law doesn't treat men and women equally.


Let's talk about the societal stigmas. I have your baby or not, my choice. Sure ma'am, your choice but make this clear before marriage. She may not want to be a mother but the guy could cherish a dream of fatherhood. Not a good thing to deprive anyone of their right. Because once married he too should have a little bit of say in this issue.


A woman can have a child, she has an option to quit her job and look after her kid, she wouldn't be labeled an incompetent employee for her choice. She also has an option to not quit and further her career, yes we do have that choice, if we didn't there wouldn't have been so many mothers who are CEOs in India itself. But what if a man wanted to quit his job to look after his child? He's labeled incompetent, people say, biwi ki kamai ki roti todta hai ghar baitha (breaks bread from his wife's income). Ever heard of a househusband?


When a national newspaper has an article on Shahrukh Khan's 8 pack, with his shirtless pictures strewn all over the page, does he whine in social media saying they sexualized him, objectified him? But when it has an article over a peek-a-boo at Ms. Padukone's cleavage, she does. And what do we say? She's a woman, the newspaper should keep decency. What if Shahrukh did that? We'd say, well why else does he have all those yummy muscles then, why does he take off his shirt then, to show off right? But when the newspapers give the same logic for DP, aren't we disgusted? Remember while Sobti was promoting his movie in the mall, a guy called out, "Shirt utar ke dikha." people simply laughed, some like me found it rude, but that was it, we moved on. Could we accept if it was a woman in Sobti's place? See we all treat men and women differently. We have different expectations from them.


Again amongst the target audience of the clip, nobody is suppressing our choices sis, that's why we have both good men and women and bad men and women in the society. We all make our choices. Both men and women are discriminated, our issues might be different. And that's exactly what my problem with the video is.


True they do not mention MEN explicitly, but consider these line-


your sins, my virtues, my choice.

to have your baby or not, my choice.

don't be upset if I come at 4 am, don't be fooled if I come at 6.

You are my choice, I am not your privilege.

I am the snowflake, you are the snowfall.


Isn't it implicit that these lines are directed at a man? C'mon we are not that dense, it's only logical to think so. And the arrogance, the selfish streak with which the lines in purple are spoken and written irks me. You both are each other's choice and privilege. No sir, we don't answer misogyny with misandry. You aren't his superior just by the virtue of being a woman nor is he. But this is what it seems to suggest. If the video had a magnanimous motive, it clearly fails to deliver that. A major chunk of viewership is made to feel that it endorses adultery. Blaming the inability to understand the video on the viewers, is like that director whose movie was trashed by critics and public alike saying, I made a brilliant movie, people failed to understand it. No sir, it's the director's job to make people understand his work, if your video fails to deliver on that aspect, how is it brilliant? It's a poorly made video.


Since you are an IPK fan, remember that fabulous speech K gives A while resigning, that line on haq and farz? That with every right there comes a responsibility. Similarly, with empowerment there comes righteousness. Without righteousness there's no empowerment. And as you pointed out, this video is not about righteous behavior then WHY call it Vogue Empower? Why not, Vogue- you have a choice instead?


The only place where the video succeeds is making a country bumpkin like yours truly's ignoramus about fashion self aware that Vogue's impossible beauty standards have now infected India as well.


Moreover, Vogue India uploads the video and adds a question, "As a woman what's the most empowering thing you have done?"


For me, it would be a day when I take up some managerial position at Vogue, snort at its fashion, buy a cheap leather pouch from the footpath and sport it every day to office, with my nose high, my chin high but not my heels. I'll feel immensely empowered that day.


I rest my case.


PS: Sorry for the long essay. 😳


Meherbaan thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago

Originally posted by: rogerrocks



Just like advocating ' right to freedom of expression' meant trashing & bashing India & its sick mentality 😆 Its not just us..Even celebs think they can act like social crusaders the moment they diss the country as a whole..Take Freida..She takes digs at India in almost every IV of hers..Why not come here & do something to change the situation instead of being all judgmental about the country as a whole..No offense.Its just that i get really annoyed when ppl drag the country as a whole and pass judgments every time there is some debatable issue..


WORD!

career flop so let's make headlines to grab some publicity is how freida works these days.
Meherbaan thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago

Originally posted by: Fiery-Phoenix

It's very naive if people think the supposedly global perception churned out by the western media has nothing to do with the west trying to supress developing countries and their progress. What better weapon than tagging the entire population and the country as terrorists or rapists. I think its genius actually. And in no way I am trying to undermine the issues these countries face, similarly as any other country out in the world including the ever so awesome US. Every country has its own problems and is working for it's betterment. It would be delusional to say India today is not much different from the India back in the 50s...


Anyhoo, thinking a country like Saudi is better off than India, then by all means, go on and enjoy their ever so refreshing freedom (Pun definitely intended)


I am your big fan 👏
sunflower52 thumbnail
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Posted: 10 years ago

Originally posted by: Fiery-Phoenix

It's very naive if people think the supposedly global perception churned out by the western media has nothing to do with the west trying to supress developing countries and their progress. What better weapon than tagging the entire population and the country as terrorists or rapists. I think its genius actually. And in no way I am trying to undermine the issues these countries face, similarly as any other country out in the world including the ever so awesome US. Every country has its own problems and is working for it's betterment. It would be delusional to say India today is not much different from the India back in the 50s...


Anyhoo, thinking a country like Saudi is better off than India, then by all means, go on and enjoy their ever so refreshing freedom (Pun definitely intended)


What am I reading that Saudi is better off than India for women, guess they have not the read the book called "Princess" by Jean Sasson. After reading I was so horrified that it scared me for life and still had not forgotten what I read. Saudi has the highest women rights violations in the world. In the end of the book the Saudi Royal Princess who told the story said that she could never go back there or else she would be hanged.

Western media is the worst media ever they love to generalize everything and hide the atrocities that are being committed against certain sect . In fact I find all media bad there is not one that gives proper news.

Even USA is not really safe in certain cities like New York city, Baltimore ect. There are areas in New York City that you can not think of going after dark.

I agree with you all the countries have their own set of problems and just can not blame an entire nation for few rotten apples.

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