Internalized Misogyny in ITV

This is about both TRP audience and online audience. I don't think their attitudes towards female characters differ much. 

So, I've watched and been part of forums, of shows, where the MLs were a******s or playboys, who used to abuse/hurt the FLs. 

But the audience would absolve the ML and stan him, and instead blame the FL for being too forgiving and 'mahaan'.

Then I have also seen shows and been part of forums where the FLs would be morally questionable, or even cruel.

Even there, the audience would blame the FL and say that she is a 'vamp' or wrong or too dark, and she should be punished and 'she is good enough for the ML'. 

So, whatever an ML does, the audience accepts him, and most of the audience is female. Are we girls thinking with our hormones? 

But whatever a female does, if she is too good, then she is 'mahaan' and if she not forgiving, and does questionable things, the she is 'wrong, vamp, dark, needs to be taught a lesson' etc. 

Why are, our standards different for MLs and FLs?

Are we victims of internalized misogyny, where we find faults in the FL for doing whatever she does? Do we unconsciously hate women? What do we expect from women? Are we ready for flawed women, women who make mistakes, women who are wrong? 

We even bash female villains more than male villains. So, even here, there is a bias. 

Just something to think about. 

We are accustomed to watching angry young men rule TV for a while now. People think manhandling is passionate, and that's probably why Gul's shows still work. If only people tried putting themselves in the position of the girl who is being manhandled - in real life, those men should be slapped, not loved.

Negative FLs is a new area. The only other show I have heard of attempting this is Beyhadh. Since writers do not have a precedent to follow in this area, they don't know how to handle it, and like you said - the same audiences who stan those abusive MLs would be the first to question the intentions of similar FLs. The writers themselves go overboard and somehow us women have some serious double standards. Even if we talk about women empowerment, few would accept a female lead who is stronger than the male lead. 

I like the leads to be equally strong, it makes for better storytelling but growing up, I was okay with watching those manipulative MLs rule TV. Thank goodness I have outgrown that stage, LOL, but this is an interesting question indeed. 

Thank god Indian films have come out those genre of making fun of a girl in the college, following her like a roadside Romeo, manhandling her.

I think ITV also should adapt this change and come out the nagins,dayans and especially Gul should change her strategy and give new shows instead of recycling her own shows and characters.

Originally posted by: SRKisLove

This is about both TRP audience and online audience. I don't think their attitudes towards female characters differ much. 

So, I've watched and been part of forums, of shows, where the MLs were a******s or playboys, who used to abuse/hurt the FLs. 

But the audience would absolve the ML and stan him, and instead blame the FL for being too forgiving and 'mahaan'.

Then I have also seen shows and been part of forums where the FLs would be morally questionable, or even cruel.

Even there, the audience would blame the FL and say that she is a 'vamp' or wrong or too dark, and she should be punished and 'she is good enough for the ML'. 

So, whatever an ML does, the audience accepts him, and most of the audience is female. Are we girls thinking with our hormones? 

But whatever a female does, if she is too good, then she is 'mahaan' and if she not forgiving, and does questionable things, the she is 'wrong, vamp, dark, needs to be taught a lesson' etc. 

Why are, our standards different for MLs and FLs?

Are we victims of internalized misogyny, where we find faults in the FL for doing whatever she does? Do we unconsciously hate women? What do we expect from women? Are we ready for flawed women, women who make mistakes, women who are wrong? 

We even bash female villains more than male villains. So, even here, there is a bias. 

Just something to think about. 

Your words reflected the reality of the society. 

If a man shows his vengeance he will be called an angry (young) man. But for a woman she will be called vampire. 🤣

Originally posted by: SRKisLove

This is about both TRP audience and online audience. I don't think their attitudes towards female characters differ much. 

So, I've watched and been part of forums, of shows, where the MLs were a******s or playboys, who used to abuse/hurt the FLs. 

But the audience would absolve the ML and stan him, and instead blame the FL for being too forgiving and 'mahaan'.

Then I have also seen shows and been part of forums where the FLs would be morally questionable, or even cruel.

Even there, the audience would blame the FL and say that she is a 'vamp' or wrong or too dark, and she should be punished and 'she is good enough for the ML'. 

So, whatever an ML does, the audience accepts him, and most of the audience is female. Are we girls thinking with our hormones? 

But whatever a female does, if she is too good, then she is 'mahaan' and if she not forgiving, and does questionable things, the she is 'wrong, vamp, dark, needs to be taught a lesson' etc. 

Why are, our standards different for MLs and FLs?

Are we victims of internalized misogyny, where we find faults in the FL for doing whatever she does? Do we unconsciously hate women? What do we expect from women? Are we ready for flawed women, women who make mistakes, women who are wrong? 

We even bash female villains more than male villains. So, even here, there is a bias. 

Just something to think about. 

👏

This is reality of our society.

 In real life also boys are forgiven easily, but girls are not........... Girls Will be  always blamed first.....if she is innocent then too.

 

Edited by Moumina - 4 years ago

Hear hear!

There is nothing wrong in disliking a female character - good or bad, but just make sure you hold a male character to the same standard. And there, I do believe we have failed, and our tv and movie industries have failed us (although the latter is bringing forth changes, don’t know much about tv shows nowadays to comment). It’s like a catch-22, the industry blames the viewers, the viewers blame the industry, I think both are at fault. We have been conditioned to think stalking, bullying and physical intimidation are signs of twu wuv. Sick, that’s what it is. A woman dares stand up for herself, or make her own decisions which might fail, she’s branded a bish. Wow!

 In the show’s context, I don’t mind anyone not liking Jahnvi/Pooja as long as they understand her character,  and not invent canon. But now look, the show is kinda changing it’s tone too. Why? 

Isn’t it sad that even millenials (or should I say especially) show this bias? I don’t know many gen Z’s, but I hope they have better standards, though I won’t hold out hope.

Edited by DivzOnAir - 4 years ago

Originally posted by: DivzOnAir

 In the show’s context, I don’t mind anyone not liking Jahnvi/Pooja as long as they understand her character,  and not invent canon. But now look, the show is kinda changing it’s tone too. Why? 

Yeah that's what I've been seeing since yesterday. The show's moral tone has shifted. 

Everyone wants Pooja to only target Senior Mittals, but how is she going to target Senior Mittals if Kabir is protecting them? Logical question. 

I wanted at least one outburst of Kabir (like he had with PK), that the senior Mittals are responsible for all this. But he has totally forgotten their complicity in the crimes. 

Now the show is trying to show Pooja like Sridevi's character in Laadla. 

Like really, Kabir said he feels no sympathy/pity for Pooja? 

He doesn't understand the gravity of the crimes committed by his family, and Pooja suffered through that for twenty years. Is she going to forgive them in 2 days, and give them respect and place to live? What world is he living in? 

Originally posted by: SRKisLove

Yeah that's what I've been seeing since yesterday. The show's moral tone has shifted. 

Everyone wants Pooja to only target Senior Mittals, but how is she going to target Senior Mittals if Kabir is protecting them? Logical question. 

I wanted at least one outburst of Kabir (like he had with PK), that the senior Mittals are responsible for all this. But he has totally forgotten their complicity in the crimes. 

Now the show is trying to show Pooja like Sridevi's character in Laadla. 

Like really, Kabir said he feels no sympathy/pity for Pooja? 

He doesn't understand the gravity of the crimes committed by his family, and Pooja suffered through that for twenty years. Is she going to forgive them in 2 days, and give them respect and place to live? What world is he living in? 

i m in favour of tashan between pooja and kabir but kabir is no saint he is living in his dream land right nd wrong according to him the only problem is he was ready to leave family for kavya but didnt even confronted his own family for pooja thats what irk me and believe me onot he is like this from 1st even in vyom he had hidden things whatever be the reason and here he is hiding and protecting senior mittals he is no good and dhruv sulking just for betrayal but what pooja is going through is worst i dont know about trp but i m definitely on pooja's side

Originally posted by: Euphoria.

We are accustomed to watching angry young men rule TV for a while now. People think manhandling is passionate, and that's probably why Gul's shows still work. If only people tried putting themselves in the position of the girl who is being manhandled - in real life, those men should be slapped, not loved.

Negative FLs is a new area. The only other show I have heard of attempting this is Beyhadh. Since writers do not have a precedent to follow in this area, they don't know how to handle it, and like you said - the same audiences who stan those abusive MLs would be the first to question the intentions of similar FLs. The writers themselves go overboard and somehow us women have some serious double standards. Even if we talk about women empowerment, few would accept a female lead who is stronger than the male lead. 

I like the leads to be equally strong, it makes for better storytelling but growing up, I was okay with watching those manipulative MLs rule TV. Thank goodness I have outgrown that stage, LOL, but this is an interesting question indeed. 

I applaud this response! Perfectly summarizes everything I wanted to say. When I was younger, the types of shows with abusive MLs were somehow appealing (and almost a turn-on, I regret to say). I think as females, we associate a male's anger or abuse towards a female as possessiveness almost. And it's completely unintentional, but somehow, over the years, a ML saying things like "tum sirf meri ho" and grabbing the FL by the arm and bruising her is almost "romantic". But if you really think about it, it's assault! Moreover, the whole "bad boy" vibe IS appealing to a lot of women because either a) they are currently in physically or psychologically abusive relationships and use these shows to justify that their relationship is love rather than abuse or b) they like the fact that the FL is almost always able to "change him" for the better. Also, if you think about it, a lot of the intense and abusive ML characters that are present in ITV are like that due to some past that they have. And so the idea that a man can be broken and need fixing by the FL is often appealing. 

I think times are changing though. Women empowerment is a big thing and I now find a show utterly boring and useless if the FL doesn't have some spine. I'm really hoping more shows start to have grey characters...no one is all good or all bad..there are shades within everyone in reality...and that really needs to start being reflected more in ITV. 

Originally posted by: -Sanjana-

I applaud this response! Perfectly summarizes everything I wanted to say. When I was younger, the types of shows with abusive MLs were somehow appealing (and almost a turn-on, I regret to say). I think as females, we associate a male's anger or abuse towards a female as possessiveness almost. And it's completely unintentional, but somehow, over the years, a ML saying things like "tum sirf meri ho" and grabbing the FL by the arm and bruising her is almost "romantic". But if you really think about it, it's assault! Moreover, the whole "bad boy" vibe IS appealing to a lot of women because either a) they are currently in physically or psychologically abusive relationships and use these shows to justify that their relationship is love rather than abuse or b) they like the fact that the FL is almost always able to "change him" for the better. Also, if you think about it, a lot of the intense and abusive ML characters that are present in ITV are like that due to some past that they have. And so the idea that a man can be broken and need fixing by the FL is often appealing. 

I think times are changing though. Women empowerment is a big thing and I now find a show utterly boring and useless if the FL doesn't have some spine. I'm really hoping more shows start to have grey characters...no one is all good or all bad..there are shades within everyone in reality...and that really needs to start being reflected more in ITV. 

@Bold 1: This is what I hate the most. Women are trapped in toxic relationships everywhere, not just in India, yet you have shows promoting just that. TMI, but I had a friend who thought she could change a bad guy in real life. Needless to say, it didn't work because real life is NOTHING like TV shows. 

@Bold 2: SAME. The "mahaan" bahus, who save the day (i.e. Kavya), have become a thing of the past. We need leads who are flawed but strong. We are getting that in EBSS right now, and that's what's keeping me hooked to the show. Pooja and Kabir are right and wrong in their own ways, but they are strong-headed characters. Their clashes would eventually lead to them realising their mistakes and that is what I am looking forward to. Someone like Dhruv can and would never match up to someone as strong as Pooja.