Ishq Di Baajiyaan - Soorma | Shankar Ehsaan Loy | Gulzar - Page 6

Originally posted by: DejaPoo

The best way I can explain duality is by taking the example of light and dark. If darkness wasn't there, would we ever know about the existence of light? I mean without darkness light would also cease to exist right? 

If it was not for fear, would we know what courage is? 

Similarly if there was no contrast outside, would we be able to understand ourselves? In the sense, because of the contrast outside, we get closer to knowing ourselves in terms of what we like, what we do not like etc etc. Would that have been possible if there was no opposing force outside. 

Basically it's the two ends of a spectrum. Each end's existence depends on the other end. The absence of one end gives existence to the other. You get what I'm saying? Like Hate is nothing but absence of love. It's just the other side of the spectrum. Now both the sides are what they are, now where you stand on the spectrum makes it your truth. Not the ultimate truth but just your truth. It's all relative. 

If I have to put it in very simple terms, then duality are the two diff sides of the same coin, each serving it's own purpose and coming together to make a whole. Both of the sides exist together balancing each other out thus creating harmony. Unity through duality. 

A very good example of this is the Yin Yang. A little bit of light exists in the dark and a little bit of dark exists in the light. 

See, I'm also yet trying to understand this concept, so won't say this is how it really is. I'm still trying to figure out how and where criminal activities classify in all of this. So it's a work in progress. Apologies if it's all scattered. And ignore if this doesn't resonate with you. No point in trying to understand what doesn't resonate. Simple formula I follow to make things easier. 

Also whatever I've written is just my perception of this concept, not stating this as the ultimate truth and is open to evolving. 

Originally posted by: Angel-likeDevil

@bold --- elaborate.. it's hard to justify some things in this angle of opposites right? I always wonder about criminality too. Which brings me to go back to the bigger picture that some things(in general) in existence go beyond all this - be it what we see as 'good' or 'bad' - some things take a form that cannot be labelled or perfectly fixed into a theory/philosophy, and there are many things that we think we can see but much more lies hidden from our capacity to understand or perceive... I think one of those things is human :p  (Actually I think life is illusion but that's another topic)

BTW, what are your thoughts on criminality, law, retribution/correction/atonement, society... especially the retribution and societal aspect of it.

Originally posted by: DejaPoo

Yes. When I say there really is no right or wrong, there just is. And truth is relative, I don't quite understand how acts of crime fit in this philosophy. So I have come to a conclusion that there is no black and white, but there are shades of Gray. Also everything is contextual?? I don't know, hopefully I'll understand this one day. @Bold - Fired up one of my light bulbs, but I have nothing to say actually. Hopefully someday it shall come. 

Ya, I think so too, Deja. That there is no right or wrong, but there is - it all depends on the context. 😃 

I don't know ALD atm I'm quite blank. About retribution, retribution means punishment inflicted upon someone as a vengence for a wrong or crimanl act. Now I'm not sure about the vengence part of it. I mean, that crime has already been done, now whatever punishment is given to the person is it going to undo that crime? If is it about setting an example, I have my doubts about fear used as a medium to deter people from a crime (Again contextual). Because in the rage of the moment, no one is really going to think about anything. And psychopaths probably don't think about the implifications anyways. There are so many laws set, has that deterred people from committing those crimes? I doubt it. What is probably needed is reform. A way to make people/ criminals  understand why certain things are just wrong and unacceptable. All this might seem too idealistic, but this is just what I feel. Again all of this is contextual. Some people just need to be locked away, for the safety of people in general. So again I feel everything can't be put under the same blanket, but yaa...you understand what I'm trying to say? 

Yes, I have the same thoughts about this. Nothing new to add really :) 

Punishment, IMO, is never the solution. I don't believe in it, but yes, there are some people who for the safety of society need to be physically away. But the societal aspect of crime and punishment is important and doesn't get as much importance as it deserves. The society should not isolate them or persecute the criminals. I think as much as individual we are, we are also one entity - if a crime has been committed somewhere - we as a society are some way responsible, if not responsible, we ought not forget we are one and could be a helpful influence over an individual without the sense of right/wrong, law & order. (I have this another confused view that all humans are one, but that's for another day :p ) . This is why, 'correction' or like you said, reform is the way. :) But it takes a huge amount of patience, compassion and... financial resources :p Not feasible at least presently.

I get you, whatever I just said is very idealistic, not possible at all.. however, idealism, in general, helps make our world a better place IMO :p 

I had recently seen a documentary ''Where to invade next', a part of it had shown Norway's prison system. That was something that resonated with me quite a lot. I'm linking the video, do check it out if you wish to. Also check out the entire documentary, it's really good. 

[YOUTUBE]http://youtube.com/watch?v=jDjISR5OHa4&t=328s[/YOUTUBE]

Will watch this a little later Deja, and will tell you when I do :)

Edit - I don't know man, I really don't. I think there is not one right way or one wrong way. There can be multiple right ways and multiple wrong ways. Similarly multiple truths. Arrghh! Now I'm just rambling. 

..rambling is good, I love talking random stuff like this 😛 ..I do this only with my parents and write my thoughts in my e-diary sometimes, Deja, it's nice talking about such things with another person.. :) I may be little slow in posting here, because I'm usually into so many things at once :p

Originally posted by: Angel-likeDevil

But it takes a huge amount of patience, compassion and... financial resources :p Not feasible at least presently.

True, but everything starts with a single step right? Hopefully one day that step shall be taken. 

I get you, whatever I just said is very idealistic, not possible at all.. however, idealism, in general, helps make our world a better place IMO :p 

No, no I agree with you. It is idealistic, but not impossible. Like this is possible when this thinking becomes a part of our DNA. It will take a lot of time, but hopefully one day. It is now that I have come to realise why it is said that kids are our future. As they will be the citizens of tomorrow. What values they'll imbibe will write the scenario for the world tomorrow. 

Will watch this a little later Deja, and will tell you when I do :)

Yes please do watch it. If not for the whole documentary. Just this clip, its a 9 min long one. It has showcased exactly what we have been discussing above. How Norway as a country looks towards its prisoners or crime in general. 

..rambling is good, I love talking random stuff like this 😛 ..I do this only with my parents and write my thoughts in my e-diary sometimes, Deja, it's nice talking about such things with another person.. :) I may be little slow in posting here, because I'm usually into so many things at once :p

Yaa me too. Sometimes it is completely vague, but just is. I enjoy it. 

Likewise. :) 

Yaa, no worries. I too post when I feel like it. 

I wrote something yesterday but had to go, and came back and clicked on 'post reply' only to lose everything to wifi disconnection 

Oh no. You should always select it all and copy it before posting, because more often than not, some kind or the other error comes up and you end up losing all that you have written. 

Originally posted by: DejaPoo

Helooo Dejaaa.

How have you been?? :)

It's been raining here again and I feel blissful. Got drenched the day before and have got very bad headache since  But, I do not regret getting drenched tho :D

How's the weather where you live? 

I'm sorry about late reply.. sometimes I feel lazy and just lost..

Oh I missed answering the movie q. There are just way too many, cant think of anything right now though. Sorry. :(

Which one Deja? Nevermind, I understand lol.. don't say sorry :p

Edit - Sorry for the very late reply. 

Stop saying sorry yaaarrr! I would feel bad if you felt a compulsion to post here but taking your own time, posting here when you feel like - makes me feel good :) Let's not be sorry to each other, I'm also late in replies :p 

Originally posted by: Angel-likeDevil

Helooo Dejaaa.

How have you been?? :)

It's been raining here again and I feel blissful. Got drenched the day before and have got very bad headache since  But, I do not regret getting drenched tho :D

How's the weather where you live? 

I'm sorry about late reply.. sometimes I feel lazy and just lost..

I have been good ALD! 

Headaches are the worst. 

You know as kids we were told to thoroughly dry our hair after getting drenched in the rain, lest there might be a lice infestion in the head. I do not know how true this is, and also don't know why I'm sharing this tid bit. 

However glad that you got your moment in the rain. :)

Weather is gloomy to say the very least. 

Don't be sorry. I too am like that. I might have a lot to say, but sometimes it gets difficult to string two thoughts together, so then I don't bother. 😆

That really got my dusty bulbs glowing in my head! 

Yes, kids are our future, our hope.. damn I feel so old lol..

Oh about the DNA part? Well, its the same like what we think we become. To say it in very brief, Certain thoughts invoke certain emotions. Certain emotions invoke certain chemicals in our body. The constant invoking of those emotions give rise to those chemicals which inadvertantly become a part of or affect our cellular structure, thus affecting or being a part of our DNA as well. Also the reason why it is so difficult to change a certain habbit. Because it is a part of our DNA. Either passed down by birth, or by various outside factors. But not impossible too. 

Ok disclaimer - The above is a very crude version of what I mean when I say it is a part of our DNA. I'm not even sure if I'm accurate, there is a lot of scientific mumbo jumbo behind this. I have just written what my tiny brain has managed to perceive out of it. 😕

Well I was born old. So I get what you are saying. 😆

I watched the clip, Deja. TFS TFS! 

Loved it so much.. damn, that is so beautiful, an entire country full of people that treat each other as human beings even when they err.. 😭👏👏 They're all so chilled out, mild, respectful.. everything about the prison system, the policemen, prisoners, the victims' parent... I have no words, it must be the utopia? The togetherness and positivity in each one of them and the journey of improvement as well, it is a utopia for me. I want to visit Norway lol. I'm going to read/research this more. 

This is how it should be everywhere on the planet. It may not be possible right now, but little by little... Cos punishing, inflicting torture or harshness isn't going to make anything better, society will only be more and more divided.. Love helps people grow together, paves way for better world. 

Hey I'm really glad you liked it. I knew you would. Do do watch the entire documentary. It is really good. When the norway prison system part came, the first thought that came into my mind was about the terrorist attack that happened in there a few years ago. And I was wondering how they dealt with that. And the next instant they show this interview of one of the victims parent. Really overwhelms you. 

You know this is what I mean it is a part of your DNA. Their entire community is attuned towards this outlook. 

Stop saying sorry yaaarrr! I would feel bad if you felt a compulsion to post here but taking your own time, posting here when you feel like - makes me feel good :) Let's not be sorry to each other, I'm also late in replies :p 

Sorry for saying sorry. Joking. 😆