MP-A History-Index, Doubts & Discussion#all here

First Previous

Page

Next Last

Frequent Posters

katana

@katana

Inactive

Posted: 11 years ago

#121

In history who won the war -
current episodes. Is udai singh or maldev ?

Quote

642126

Hibernated

Posted: 11 years ago

#122

I just read in The Cambridge and Pearson manual of Indian history that Rana Sanga helped Babur against Lodi!😲

Is it true?

It is said they fell out later as Babur broke agreements they had in their treaty.

What rubbish? I mean Rana ji in some way helped Babur lay foundation of Mughal empire by ending Delhi Sultanate? 😕

What was use of fighting battles against Mughals later then...

Quote

Looks like you are new here. Register for free, learn and contribute.

ThePirateKing

@ThePirateKing

Voyager

Posted: 11 years ago

#123

Originally posted by: atominis
I just read in The Cambridge and Pearson manual of Indian history that Rana Sanga helped Babur against Lodi!😲
Is it true?

It is said they fell out later as Babur broke agreements they had in their treaty.

What rubbish? I mean Rana ji in some way helped Babur lay foundation of Mughal empire by ending Delhi Sultanate? 😕

What was use of fighting battles against Mughals later then...

It's actually partially true. Rana Sanga did send an envoy to Babur to have a deal. The deal suggested by Sanga was that Babur could keep Punjab while Sanga would keep Delhi and Agra. The deal fell through and the envoy returned, but Sanga never helped Babur against Lodhi.

Subsequently both of them had a dispute over Bayana which lead to a battle between them at Khanwa which was won by Babur (some say treachery, some say ability, truth might be in between).

It's politics and there are no permanent enemies or friends here. Rani Karmavati(Pratap's aunt) sent rakhi to Humayun to come and help her and Humayun responded even though he was late, but that did not stop Pratap and Akbar from fighting each other.

Quote

642126

Hibernated

Posted: 11 years ago

#124

@ The PirateKing

Thanks.

Rana Sanga thought Babur would let it be? Huge error.

I read he lost Battle of Khanua due to inability to compete with advanced artillery used by Babur.

Agree on no permanent enemies or friends in politics. US and MP were fighting Afghans earlier. But later in Battle of Haldighati MP deployed an Afghan Hakim Khan Sur to fight against Mughals.

This hokum about freedom fighters is unnecessary.

Quote

ThePirateKing

@ThePirateKing

Voyager

Posted: 11 years ago

#125

Originally posted by: atominis
@ The PirateKing
Thanks.

Rana Sanga thought Babur would let it be? Huge error.

I read he lost Battle of Khanua due to inability to compete with advanced artillery used by Babur.

Agree on no permanent enemies or friends in politics. US and MP were fighting Afghans earlier. But later in Battle of Haldighati MP deployed an Afghan Hakim Khan Sur to fight against Mughals.

This hokum about freedom fighters is unnecessary.

Long post so bear with me...

What Rana Sanga thought is something unfortunately only he can answer. Maybe he thought that Babur was just another plunderer like Ghaznavi and would leave after sometime. It's a fact that Babur hated the heat in the plains of India, but he actually had nowhere to go but to stay put in India and rule from Delhi to Kabul. He had far more powerful enemies in his homeland.

More than artillery it was the horse archers that caused the most damage and the matchlockmen also caused quite a bit. Babur's artillery fired approximately one round in about 30 min maybe enough for Lodhi but certainly not enough to defeat a strong enemy like Sanga. Even the most advanced French developed artillery of Marathas in 1761 fired a round in around 6-7 minutes. Khanwa was 200 years before that.

The other story is about Rao Shiladi defecting. According to Baburnama the battle was tight till evening and the next sentence has Babur celebrating victory. Not sure what is true, but Rao Shiladi was part of negotiating team. The negotiations actually went on for months before they broke down. So its a possibility he would have known Babur well enough.

Rana Sanga was injured by arrows in the battle and had to be carried away, so most likely his men would have thought that victory was beyond them and would have retreated. Babur got no prisoners and could not even loot the Rajput's camp indicating that withdrawal was orderly.

Lots of small Muslim states (primarily Afghan) were vassals of Mewar, and they gathered around Pratap simply because he was the only hope to defeat the Mughals. Atleast Hakim Khan and his men fought valiantly and perished.

Quote

Arohi

@made-in-charms

Rocker

Posted: 11 years ago

#126

Hey. Anyone can tell me Phool was anyway important in Pratap's life ? Or She was completely useless as I think 😛 ???
Do answer me anyone !

Quote

keshav

@VS-Cool

Rocker

+ 4

Posted: 11 years ago

#127

@Princess Arohi 'USELESS' is not an appropriate word as both ajab, phool were Pratap's wives. Well read so many things about Raj's History But in text books & novels even of Master's level i never saw any much infos about Pratap's wives and especially the romance and friendship they are showing in the show. Aur ye bhi hosakta hain that MP's story was more important and well known for his struggles to get Chittor back and all, isiliye we dont get his personal infos much every where. But yes Names of King's first wives are always mentioned in every book. AJBADEY PUNWAR was first wife of MP. There is an incident where a queen prepared 'BHAKRI' in jungle, where a cat took it from Pratap's Daughter, seeing that his kids has now nothing to eat, pratap broke down and decided to RETHINK over his decision. Then the Letter from PRITHWIRAJ (Akbar's poet who was pratap's admirer) To PRATAP, which made pratap strong again, in this incident AJAB and other wives are mentioned, but not confirmed. Another incident where Akbar Sent Todarmal sahab to make Pratap ready for MUGhal kingdom , there too a Queen is mentioned. But AJBADEY Is better known for Her Son AMAR SINGH Only in many books, who was first kid of Pratap. As it is said that Amar was like his father only , he fought more then 17 wars with father, and after father pratap's death he continued protest against mughals . Somewhere read that Ajab was a good adviser for pratap , just like jaiwanta for udaisingh.

Edited by VS_Cool - 11 years ago

Quote

keshav

@VS-Cool

Rocker

+ 4

Posted: 11 years ago

#128

Regarding Phool, as i said in many books only names of first wives are mentioned. So frankly i came to know that Pratap had a wife from our Marwar too, from this show only :)))) . . Then i searched and read about her, And Confirmed that Phool Bai was wife of Pratap who gave birth to two sons. As they showed that Phool's father was Ram Singh, i dont think so that he is much important in Marwar's history, as Rao Maldev was succeded by RAO CHANDRASEN, who is said to be similar to pratap in many things, since he too didnt accepted Akbar, so Akbar boycotted him and MOTA RAJA UDAI SINGH Succeded him. . . So Phool's father is not much important in Marwar's history, thats why his family is not mentioned properly. . . . . And yes it is mentioned in some books and sites that She was the mother of CHANDA SINGH (2nd son of Pratap) who was thakur of anjana udaipur. And I think Chanda is also mentioned in HaldiGhati battle's brief accounts. . . . . . . BUT ALL I CAN SAY THAT THERE ARE ALOT MANY THINGS WHICH WE DONT KNOW. SO PLEASE DO NOT MAKE ANY ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT ANY CHARACTER. As ITS A FICTION SO THEY MANIPULATED ALOT MANY THINGS, AND MAYBE MANIPULATE MORE . . . :)

Edited by VS_Cool - 11 years ago

Quote

myviewprem

@myviewprem

Sparkler

+ 3

Posted: 11 years ago

#129

Originally posted by: atominis
I just read in The Cambridge and Pearson manual of Indian history that Rana Sanga helped Babur against Lodi!😲

Is it true?

It is said they fell out later as Babur broke agreements they had in their treaty.

What rubbish? I mean Rana ji in some way helped Babur lay foundation of Mughal empire by ending Delhi Sultanate? 😕

What was use of fighting battles against Mughals later then...

No one is permanent enemy in politics. Yes it was a confederation of Rana Sangha who invited Babur to india to defeat Lodhi's. Initially Babar did not think It was a great idea and took ages to decide. He decided because his family were all his enemies and he wanted a safe place to settle which he felt was india. Hence he decided to fight Ibrahim lodhi. Then after winning he had promised to give delhi to rana sangha but did not and wanted to settle in delhi(india). This led to big fight and rana sangha formed an alliance with other rajputhana kings and attacked babar near agra. Babar won decisively because he had artillery and guns that Indians did not have.

OK during this war again it was not all enemity. Afghan soldiers attacked Rani Karnavati's camp and wanted to kill all kids and abduct the girls. Humayun who was there refused to let it happen and saved them. That is how Rani Karnavati knew Humayun. In this same time he saved Rani of Gwalior too. I am not sure if these Afghan soldiers were Mughals or others.

Then that famous incident when Bahadur Shah of Gujarat attacked Chittor Rani Karnavati sent a rakhi to Humayun asking for help. Humayun against advice of ministers and brothers came back from an important battle to chittor. He did one tactical error. He sent a troop to chittor and waited to cut off the troop supply of bahadur shah. Now the Mughal army without their emperor in chittor did not fight much and waited for him to reach them. By time Humayun came to chittor the ladies had done jauhar. Bahadur shah ran off and humayun chased him all over to catch him. Finally Vikaramaditya was made ruler of chittor by humayun. This angered Mughal army and nobels especially his brothers and they supported sher shah suri an commander of humayun to defeat him and then he went to exile for 15 years.

Udai Singh and Akbar and Pratap and Akbar were ememies. Jehangir sent Khurram to defeat Amar Singh. Finally during Khurram rebellion Karan Singh and Khurram became good friends. And Jeghangir himself was very fond of karan as he was a well behaved prince. Hence jehangir despite huge resources did not attack mewar for helping khurram in rebellion. Shah Jahan who was grateful for this help took Karan's son under his wings after his dad death and helped him.

And once when Amar singh took Abdul Rahim's family hostage Maharana told him to leave them back

And once the Mughal soldiers succeeded in catching Maharana daughter and brought her to camp and Jehangir sent her back although Mughal soldiers revolted and opposed it(as they can use her to blackmail mewar to surrender)

Then one more time Salim came to know Shakti saved Pratap in haldighatti and killed 4 afghan Mughal soldiers to save pratap. Akbar was not present in court and nobels asked jehangir(who was a teenager then) to decide punishment. Salim told him to leave Mughal court and go back to pratap. The Mughal court was shocked at his judgement.Akbar was furious at this decision by Salim.

Also when Khurram was sent to defeat amr singh he captured women and kids and farmers and tortured them to pressure amar singh to surrender. But when jehangir came to know and told to leave them immediately

So not all generations were enemies it depends on person and circumstances

Edited by myviewprem - 11 years ago

Quote

rashmikmahajan

@rashmikmahajan

Beginner

Posted: 11 years ago

#130

Originally posted by: myviewprem

No one is permanent enemy in politics. Yes it was a confederation of Rana Sangha who invited Babur to india to defeat Lodhi's. Initially Babar did not think It was a great idea and took ages to decide. He decided because his family were all his enemies and he wanted a safe place to settle which he felt was india. Hence he decided to fight Ibrahim lodhi. Then after winning he had promised to give delhi to rana sangha but did not and wanted to settle in delhi(india). This led to big fight and rana sangha formed an alliance with other rajputhana kings and attacked babar near agra. Babar won decisively because he had artillery and guns that Indians did not have.

OK during this war again it was not all enemity. Afghan soldiers attacked Rani Karnavati's camp and wanted to kill all kids and abduct the girls. Humayun who was there refused to let it happen and saved them. That is how Rani Karnavati knew Humayun. In this same time he saved Rani of Gwalior too. I am not sure if these Afghan soldiers were Mughals or others.

Then that famous incident when Bahadur Shah of Gujarat attacked Chittor Rani Karnavati sent a rakhi to Humayun asking for help. Humayun against advice of ministers and brothers came back from an important battle to chittor. He did one tactical error. He sent a troop to chittor and waited to cut off the troop supply of bahadur shah. Now the Mughal army without their emperor in chittor did not fight much and waited for him to reach them. By time Humayun came to chittor the ladies had done jauhar. Bahadur shah ran off and humayun chased him all over to catch him. Finally Vikaramaditya was made ruler of chittor by humayun. This angered Mughal army and nobels especially his brothers and they supported sher shah suri an commander of humayun to defeat him and then he went to exile for 15 years.

Udai Singh and Akbar and Pratap and Akbar were ememies. Jehangir sent Khurram to defeat Amar Singh. Finally during Khurram rebellion Karan Singh and Khurram became good friends. And Jeghangir himself was very fond of karan as he was a well behaved prince. Hence jehangir despite huge resources did not attack mewar for helping khurram in rebellion. Shah Jahan who was grateful for this help took Karan's son under his wings after his dad death and helped him.

And once when Amar singh took Abdul Rahim's family hostage Maharana told him to leave them back

And once the Mughal soldiers succeeded in catching Maharana daughter and brought her to camp and Jehangir sent her back although Mughal soldiers revolted and opposed it(as they can use her to blackmail mewar to surrender)

Then one more time Salim came to know Shakti saved Pratap in haldighatti and killed 4 afghan Mughal soldiers to save pratap. Akbar was not present in court and nobels asked jehangir(who was a teenager then) to decide punishment. Salim told him to leave Mughal court and go back to pratap. The Mughal court was shocked at his judgement.Akbar was furious at this decision by Salim.

Also when Khurram was sent to defeat amr singh he captured women and kids and farmers and tortured them to pressure amar singh to surrender. But when jehangir came to know and told to leave them immediately

So not all generations were enemies it depends on person and circumstances

I read somewhere that Babur was able to defeat Rans Sanga not only due to superior artillery but mainly due to defection by Shailaditya or Sihal ( ruler of Raisen) , one of his confidante who was sent by Rana Sanga to negotiate with Babur. Shiladitya was to command the frontal attack with a majority of the army and Sanga to encircle the enemy from the opposite side. But Shiladitya walked away with his battalion leaving Sanga with a minority army. Sanga's daughter was married to Shiladitya's son and had later committed Jauhar with her kids.

Also, after conditional surrender by Amar Singh, Jahangir had a very cordial meeting with him at Ajmer and also returned Chittor with a condition that Chittor will never be renovated by them. I read that Jagat Singh (Karan's son) did try to renovate it once but Shahajahan pulled it down, though they had very cordial relation otherwise. Enemity again came to fore during aurangazeb's time.

Edited by rashmikmahajan - 11 years ago

Quote

1 ... 11 12 13 14 15

MP-A History-Index, Doubts & Discussion#all here - Page 13

Related Topics

Explore Topics