Doormate vs Faminism - Page 16

Originally posted by: tinoo

Hima, forgive me if it looks like I'm picking on you. I am actually appreciative of your post because it brought up so many thought provoking issues and new points of view to analyze 👏

With re: to this point about selfishness which you have brought up...

I think it is actually the opposite.

Selfish people are those who operate from a sense of 'lack', so they feel that they are unworthy to have the thing they want in any other way except to snatch, steal, stake their claim on etc. There is only one of this. If we give it away, then we will have nothing left for ourselves etc. etc.

On the contrary, while it looks like selfless people are not able to retain something for themselves, it is the exact opposite. Selfless people operate from a sense of abundance ... because they believe that they already have everything within themselves, so they are freely able to give away. The universe is abundant and will provide when required. Selfless people also dont put their stake in things or possessions. They know that the magic is not in the thing or the possession... the magic lies within them to create a brand new thing.

Real life examples:
1) Man sacrificed everything he had for his brothers. His wife put up with him for sometime, but eventually she got frustrated and left. Brothers do not care so much about him as they have their own families! No one wants to be with this man...he has no support!!

2) A woman, very good natured, got married. She is a housewife. Her husband gave a damn about her. He scolded her in public...ordered her around.
A year later...tables turned. She went through a disastrous event that changed everything about her personality. She started being selfish...and instead of doing everything for the husband from cooking to cleaning...she told him to taker care of some of his own things...and told the in-laws that she couldn't attend to them all the time. She needs time of her own. People were angry with her because they faced a lot of inconvenience when they had to do their own work. She was badmouthed as selfish. She used that time to develop her education and personality. Husband and in-laws both respect her 100 times more now!!

These are real relatives...real people!!..

The point I am making is too much sacrificing v/s Gauri's screaming.
While I am saying that Gauri's screaming is bad...really bad , but I don't consider it a crime...but a behavioral disorder. However Anandi is adjusting ...is good...but in real life...from what I ahve seen of people around me----I see people who are really sacrificing (to this extent), and they are very few,...face misery more than anyone else...and no one even supports them.

Originally posted by: tinoo

Hima,

A sacrifice is generally a trade off between "what do I lose" vs. "What do I gain"... where we call it a sacrifice when the losing seems to be more than gaining.

when we refer to someone (anandi) as "extremely sacrificing", I think we usually view it through our own lenses of cost-benefit analysis...

but each individual has their own cost-benefit analysis and it is not for us to judge others' sacrifices or to put a value on anyone else's personal decision.

If anandi is making a decision, what she stands to gain is obviously more than what she stands to lose (in her own eyes, not ours)...

The key is that she is happy with her so-called sacrifice.

We should only be concerned if there is a lack of alignment between her circumstances and the choices she made.

In anandi's case, she is perfectly aligned and happy with where she is at right now, so we cannot call it a sacrifice.

Yes..in Anandi's case. That's the difference in fairy-tale and reality. I am saying in a real scenario... In laws do not disown their son.
I am not making up examples to prove my point. If people can trust.
A woman lived with her in-laws.Inlaws--very rich and semi rural background! Husband went to study dentistry. She had a child with her husband. The guy found another classmate...and started living with her. In-laws had to do something. They gave her a separate home (because they did not want her to file cases on them)...and compensation. Their son is STILL their son and the inheritor of property...after a fight for few days...they can't separate from their son for another woman !! That's real life !!

Anandi is too sacrificing for being happy and taken care of a realistic world. She didn't give and take. She never was into give and take...to any extent...while in a realistic world-no one can live without any extent of give and take!

I could believe that Anandi had a slight sense of give and take...if all her sacrifices were directed towards the right people. She sacrificed wrong things for wrong people.
She is happy in TV world...because where she is living is a different household. Isolate her character...and place it in a real world. Perhaps you will see the difference. She will behave the same (she will sacrifice the same amount whether its cruel Dadi Saa of earlier days...or Bhairav...or maybe more for DadiSaa)...she will STILL be sacrificing wherever she will be, whoever she will be with. Sacrificing so much for people in real world isn't the greatest thing to do...its un-realistic to be so sacrificing and still be well taken care of in a realistic scenario.

Here's a joke

Originally posted by: hima_123

Yes..in Anandi's case. That's the difference in fairy-tale and reality. I am saying in a real scenario... In laws do not disown their son.
I am not making up examples to prove my point. If people can trust.
A woman lived with her in-laws.Inlaws--very rich and semi rural background! Husband went to study dentistry. She had a child with her husband. The guy found another classmate...and started living with her. In-laws had to do something. They gave her a separate home (because they did not want her to file cases on them)...and compensation. Their son is STILL their son and the inheritor of property...after a fight for few days...they can't separate from their son for another woman !! That's real life !!

Anandi is too sacrificing for being happy and taken care of a realistic world. She didn't give and take. She never was into give and take...to any extent...while in a realistic world-no one can live without any extent of give and take!

I could believe that Anandi had a slight sense of give and take...if all her sacrifices were directed towards the right people. She sacrificed wrong things for wrong people.
She is happy in TV world...because where she is living is a different household. Isolate her character...and place it in a real world. Perhaps you will see the difference. She will behave the same (she will sacrifice the same amount whether its cruel Dadi Saa of earlier days...or Bhairav...or maybe more for DadiSaa)...she will STILL be sacrificing wherever she will be, whoever she will be with. Sacrificing so much for people in real world isn't the greatest thing to do...its un-realistic to be so sacrificing and still be well taken care of in a realistic scenario.

hima: If you take it solely through the context of the TV world, then even Gauri is an unreal character. Because in real life, women who get involved with married men are often left at their fate because more often than not married men having affairs just want to have it for the sake of fun, not for real responsibilities. They might mess around with the other woman physically but at the end of the day, they go back to their wives and kids.
You cited real life examples: let me tell you two real life examples that I have myself witnessed.

i) A friend of mine met a man at an exhibition. They had similar taste in art and they quickly developed a friendship. Now she got an offer from another country for a fully funded project of 5 years. They continued their friendship over online chats and phone calls and apparently confessed love for each other. They met up a couple of more times when she was visiting India and never sensed anything. The relationship just grew and finally she decided she did not want to complete her project and came back to be with her man, only to find that the man was already married with two grown up kids!!! A long process of deliberation followed--the man wanted more time to settle things, confessed his love for her and said he would leave his wife, and carried on dilly dallying for some more time before he finally dumped her and went back to his wife. Incidentally, they had a physical relationship in their extra marital and even the attraction of sex didn't matter as soon as the question of responsibility came in.

ii) A man had an affair with his office secretary. He left his wife and went on to live in with the girlfriend. His wife fell seriously sick, his family abandoned him and yet he carried on with this other girl. Finally, the relationship lasted for a year, he was never officially divorced and then he went back to his wife apologizing to her. The wife happily took him back. The other girl was given some money and asked to go away. She was from a poor background and the only earning member of her family, so she just took the money and settled the deal. Now the man lives with his wife, they have a kid and they are one 'happy' family. [Shamefully this one is in our extended family]

The point is, there are hundreds of girls like Gauri who get trapped in extra-marital affairs with married men. Just like real life Anandis are thrown away by their in laws, the real life Gauris just get exploited physically and are often dumped by the married men.
Do you think married men who have extra-marital affairs leave their families and take responsibility for their live in partner's child????!!!! That's a fantasy in itself. In real life, people like Gauri who knowingly enter into a relationship with married men risk everything.

So what do you think prompts Gauri's actions? Maybe she is deliberately hanging on to Jagya because of her spite against the Singh family. But since many Gauri pujaris love to believe that she is with Jagya out of sachcha pyaar, then she must be a more sacrificing woman than even Anandi. Anandi is still a gawar, uneducated, unenlightened backward woman who has never learned to grow a backbone and sacrifices for her loved ones. But what drives Gauri to put her whole life at risk and make such a stupid decision? It's not that Gauri is emotionally strong and she does not care about society----she wants her bahu status, she wants to present herself as Jagya's rightful biwi, and she never imagined being a single mother. What happens to such real life Gauris who mess with their own lives and then, don't even have the strength to handle it on their own?

Originally posted by: woman11

hima: If you take it solely through the context of the TV world, then even Gauri is an unreal character. Because in real life, women who get involved with married men are often left at their fate because more often than not married men having affairs just want to have it for the sake of fun, not for real responsibilities. They might mess around with the other woman physically but at the end of the day, they go back to their wives and kids.
You cited real life examples: let me tell you two real life examples that I have myself witnessed.

i) A friend of mine met a man at an exhibition. They had similar taste in art and they quickly developed a friendship. Now she got an offer from another country for a fully funded project of 5 years. They continued their friendship over online chats and phone calls and apparently confessed love for each other. They met up a couple of more times when she was visiting India and never sensed anything. The relationship just grew and finally she decided she did not want to complete her project and came back to be with her man, only to find that man was married with two kids!!! A long process of deliberation followed--the man wanted more time to settle things, confessed his love for her and said he would leave his wife, and carried on dilly dallying for some more time before he finally dumped her and went back to his wife. Incidentally, they had a physical relationship in their extra marital and even the attraction of sex didn't matter as soon as teh question of responsibility came in.

ii) A man had an affair with his office secretary. He left his wife and went on to live in with the girlfriend. His wife fell seriously sick, his family abandoned him and yet he carried on with this other girl. Finally, the relationship lasted for a year, he was never officially divorced and then he went back to his wife apologizing to her. The wife happily took him back. The other girl was given some money and asked to go away. She was from a poor background and the only earning member of her family, so she just took the money and settled the deal. Now the man lives with his wife, they have a kid and they are one 'happy' family.

The point is, there are hundreds of girls like Gauri who get trapped in extra-marital affairs with married men. Just like real life Anandis are thrown away by their in laws, the real life Gauris just get exploited physically and are often dumped by the married men.
Do you think married men who have extra-marital affairs leave their families and take responsibility for their live in partner's child????!!!! That's a fantasy in itself. In real life, people like Gauri who knowingly enter into a relationship with married men risk everything.

So what do you think prompts Gauri's actions? Maybe she is deliberately hanging on to Jagya because of her spite against the Singh family. But since many Gauri pujaris love to believe that she is with Jagya out of sachcha pyaar, then she must be a more sacrificing woman than even Anandi. Anandi is still a gawar, uneducated, unenlightened backward woman who has never learned to grow a backbone and sacrifices for her loved ones. But what drives Gauri to put her whole life at risk and make such a stupid decision? It's not that Gauri is emotionally strong and she does not care about society----she wants her bahu status, she wants to present herself as Jagya's rightful biwi, and she never imagined being a single mother. What happens to such real life Gauris who mess with their own lives and then, don't even have the strength to handle it on their own?

ofcours in real life Gauri...might be left by Jagya...very high probability!! But also a very high probability that she finds another guy to live with!!

She still is self sustainable...while Anandi is not. Her happiness in real scenario will be very much dependent on Jagya coming back to her...because she has not prepared herself for other things. (I will assume that real life in-laws don't give their property to DILs...and villagers still, don't make young girls as Sarpanch.)

anandi's situation is still more grim compared to Gauri's if she were there in a real life scenario,
Jagya, if separated from Gauri, has a very low chance of coming back to Anandi...from what I see about the world I live in. He might just find another woman...who is not uneducated, and who does not scream so much. Gauri is attarctive and educated...and might find another guy. Anandi will more realistically be left with nothing.

Originally posted by: hima_123

[..and villagers still, don't make young girls as Sarpanch.)

Originally posted by: tinoo

Actually, this part is not true... in Gujarat, in several villages there are 24 or 25 year old girls who are serving as sarpanch... and not only the sarpanch but the other four individuals (panch's) are also girls 😆 ... so all five panchs are girls.

It's quite a happening movement nowadays. Young girls are coming to the forefront.

Anandi's case is not unique.

We are talking about Rajasthan...I have witnessed whats the situation like in U.P. villages. Rajasthan is worse!!

Elections are big events...even Sarpanch elections...generally influential people will lot of political support (even in villages) win elections at such level. Being a sarpanch is not easy. Where seats are reserved for women...they are just projected as office bearers by men who are behind them. The women are not so empoewered in Indian villages.

Originally posted by: hima_123

We are talking about Rajasthan.

Originally posted by: hima_123

We are talking about Rajasthan...I have witnessed whats the situation like in U.P. villages. Rajasthan is worse!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chhavi_Rajawat

Originally posted by: khusi_*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chhavi_Rajawat

Chhavi Rajawat...and a village girl are treated too differently.