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Who is your favorite Pandava queen?

Poll Choice
Kunti
Madri
Draupadi
Subhadra
Uttara
Hidimbaa
Uloopi
Chitrangada
Other wife of any Pandavas (please specify)

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Vibhishna

@Vibhishna

Goldie

Posted: 12 years ago

Wow! So much information...

Thank you all. I did not know most of it.

I remember a Tamil film mentioning Karna's son. In that film, Karna had only one son and he was killed when he was a little boy. I'm not sure which source they took it from. I'll check if there are mentions of Karna's family in the books I have.

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Vrish

@Vr15h

Viewbie

+ 4

Posted: 12 years ago

Vibs

Welcome back. Nice to see you after a long while. 😊

If you look @ pg 2 of this thread, you'll see Ananya has posted the link to the KM Ganguly Mahabharata. If you read that, you'll see that he had 4 sons - Vrishasena, Chitrasena, Shrutasena & Satyasena, whose deaths I describe in the first post on this page. It's also there in the ACK of the Mahabharata - the one that comes in I think 3 volumes and describes all the chapters.

I didn't know/think that he had any other sons, but vaarali came out w/ the Jaimineya Mahabharata that has a description of him. I found the details fascinating. I'm also interested in the other sons of the Pandavas - Yaudheya, Nirmitra and Suhotra, who she mentioned. They were born to other wives of Yudhisthir, Nakula & Sahadeva, but I could find no description of them in the Mahabharata (I guess I'd have to read Adi parva again in detail, but their births would have happened after that of Draupadi's & Subhadra's sons.

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varaali

@varaali

IF-Dazzler

+ 2

Posted: 12 years ago

Vibhishana,

Are you referring to the Tamil film 'Karnan" starring Shivaji ? Though it is a great movie, I don't think was factually very accurate.

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Vibhishna

@Vibhishna

Goldie

Posted: 12 years ago

Originally posted by: .Vrish.
Vibs

Welcome back. Nice to see you after a long while. 😊

If you look @ pg 2 of this thread, you'll see Ananya has posted the link to the KM Ganguly Mahabharata. If you read that, you'll see that he had 4 sons - Vrishasena, Chitrasena, Shrutasena & Satyasena, whose deaths I describe in the first post on this page. It's also there in the ACK of the Mahabharata - the one that comes in I think 3 volumes and describes all the chapters.

I didn't know/think that he had any other sons, but vaarali came out w/ the Jaimineya Mahabharata that has a description of him. I found the details fascinating. I'm also interested in the other sons of the Pandavas - Yaudheya, Nirmitra and Suhotra, who she mentioned. They were born to other wives of Yudhisthir, Nakula & Sahadeva, but I could find no description of them in the Mahabharata (I guess I'd have to read Adi parva again in detail, but their births would have happened after that of Draupadi's & Subhadra's sons.

😊 thanks.

I remember reading Draupadi was angry and jealous when she heard Arjun married another woman and brought her back to the palace to be his wife (Subhadra) but was not that upset to know her other husbands took consorts.

Nakul married Karenumati, the princess of Chedi and Niramitra was born to them.

Sahadeva married Vijaya, the princess of Madra and Suhotra was born to them. Some say he also married Jarasand's daughter - no idea where this comes from. I read it long back. I thought both of Jarasand's daughters were married to Kans.

I did not know Yudhishtr married anyone other than Draupadi but can get back after referring. I remember reading that Yudhishtr was the only one who did not marry anyone else other than Draupadi.

And, yes, these sons were much younger than Draupadi's sons and Abhimanyu. I don't know if they even knew their brothers and were probably brought up like Babruvahana.

Karna's family remained quite a mystery till I knew where to look. I still don't know much but will read the posts when I get time.

Edited by Vibhishna - 12 years ago

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Vibhishna

@Vibhishna

Goldie

Posted: 12 years ago

Originally posted by: varaali
Vibhishana,

Are you referring to the Tamil film 'Karnan" starring Shivaji ? Though it is a great movie, I don't think was factually very accurate.

Yes, the very same. I too thought it had gaping holes in the story, though the movie itself was great.

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Vrish

@Vr15h

Viewbie

+ 4

Posted: 12 years ago

vanadhi

Your earlier question - I have no idea whether Krishna's descendents became extinct or not - think they did. Same for Pandavas, Rama, and other families who lived in those times.

Originally posted by: vanadhi
"The kingdom of Hastinapur could not have been rightfully Karna's.
Karna was not a descendant of Emperor Bharat. He was not a Kuru vanshi.
He was born to Kunti who later entered the Kuru family".
Exactly is that the case then ,i have a doubt yar ..what rightfulness does Dhritarashtra and pandu had
because they are adopted sons of vichitravirya by royal family , were fathered by sage vyasa(who is the son Satyavati,sage Parashara).
there no direct descendend here to .where pandu had a curse that when tried to intimate with a girl he would die(thats reason behind his early death).
So all pandavas are sons five elements or demigods(darma, vayu,indra,Ashwini Kumar twins)
So here also there no direct dna descendants kuru clan.
So including Karna all the pandavas are related to kundi and Madri itself not any male. Mahabaratha story is disgusting here too...😕
how can we claim that vamsha clan etc upon them

Actually, the Kuru family had several discontinuities in the lineage. Emperor Bharata adopted a son, who succeeded him. So by the above argument, if adopted children weren't recognized as belonging to their families, then a lot of the dynasties would simply have become illegitimate. Even Santanu wouldn't have then been a legitimate member of the Kuru dynasty, by that logic.

And in the Ramayan, Dasharath would have been the last descendent of Ikshvaku, and Rama started a new dynasty. But Rama always ruled as a member of the Raghukul, was himself known as Raghunath/Raghunandan/Raghuveer, even though he wasn't genetically Raghu's descendent.

The custom @ that time was that the children of any woman belonged to her husband, regardless of whether he created them in her or not. That's how RLBS were sons of Dasharath, Dhritarashtra & Pandu were sons of Vichitravirya, and how the Pandavas were sons of Pandu. Under those conventions, even Karna was son of Pandu, and Kunti really betrayed her husband and all her sons by not confessing to Karna's parentage in time.

Anyway, like I said in the previous post, Karna was the legitimate successor to the Kuru throne, even though Yudhisthir was probably more appropriate to rule than Karna. Both Krishna & Kunti offered him at least the chief of the Pandavas, if he switched sides.

However, since Karna was never the ruler, I guess Vrishaketu wasn't put in the line of succession.

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varaali

@varaali

IF-Dazzler

+ 2

Posted: 12 years ago

Originally posted by: .Vrish.

Actually, the Kuru family had several discontinuities in the lineage. Emperor Bharata adopted a son, who succeeded him. So by the above argument, if adopted children weren't recognized as belonging to their families, then a lot of the dynasties would simply have become illegitimate. Even Santanu wouldn't have then been a legitimate member of the Kuru dynasty, by that logic.

And in the Ramayan, Dasharath would have been the last descendent of Ikshvaku, and Rama started a new dynasty. But Rama always ruled as a member of the Raghukul, was himself known as Raghunath/Raghunandan/Raghuveer, even though he wasn't genetically Raghu's descendent.

The custom @ that time was that the children of any woman belonged to her husband, regardless of whether he created them in her or not. That's how RLBS were sons of Dasharath, Dhritarashtra & Pandu were sons of Vichitravirya, and how the Pandavas were sons of Pandu. Under those conventions, even Karna was son of Pandu, and Kunti really betrayed her husband and all her sons by not confessing to Karna's parentage in time.

Anyway, like I said in the previous post, Karna was the legitimate successor to the Kuru throne, even though Yudhisthir was probably more appropriate to rule than Karna. Both Krishna & Kunti offered him at least the chief of the Pandavas, if he switched sides.

However, since Karna was never the ruler, I guess Vrishaketu wasn't put in the line of succession.

To answer both Vanadhi and Vrish-

The births of Pandu / Dritarashtra and subsequently the Pandavas were very much in conformity with the social laws prevelant at that time. Karna's birth was not. Let me elaborate.

Pandu / Dritarashtra were concieved thru the process of Niyoga - a practice which could be resorted to when the ruler died without an heir and the dynasty was in danger of collapsing (as in the case of Vichitravirya /Chitrangada). There was no secrecy about this and the man chosen to father the future king(s) was chosen with care. The offspring of such a union was born into the gotra of the dead father (and therefore a legitimate member of the family) and the biological father would have no claim on the offspring.

Niyoga could also be resorted also when a man could not father children and he needed sons to both -continue the dynasty and - perform obsequies (as in the case of Pandu and Dasharatha). Here the husband gave his approval for his wife to beget children thru someone else and hence the children born were accepted as his own.

Karna was a kanina son- a son born to woman before marraige. The rules governing a kanina son were very different. If Karna were to be considered as a Pandav, he should have been adopted by Pandu before he died..

A Kanina son could be adopted by his mother's subsequent husband, especially when the husband has no sons of is own. Thus, on knowing that Pandu will be unable to father children, Kunti could have revealed to Pandu the existence of Karna and Pandu could have adopted him as his son, thus making him the eldest Pandav.

But even then a kanina son could only be considered a relative, not an heir.(Manava Dharmashastra)

Now Kunti chose to remain silent and after Pandu's death there was no way Karna could be considered a Pandav.

The reason both Kunti and Karna offered Karna the throne was they were relying on Yudhishtira's innate sense of propriety. They were sure that on coming to know of an existing elder brother, Yudhishtira's sense of justice would prompt him to offer the throne to Karna.

In fact in this whole drama, the only illegitimate offspring was the proginator of all- Veda Vyasa himself.

Edited by varaali - 12 years ago

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varaali

@varaali

IF-Dazzler

+ 2

Posted: 12 years ago

As quoted in Section 95 of Sambhava Parva :

And Yudhishthira begat Prativindhya; Bhima, Sutasoma; Arjuna, Srutakriti; Nakula, Satanika; and Sahadeva, Srutakarman.

Besides these, Yudhishthira, having obtained for his wife Devika, the daughter of Govasana of the Saivya tribe, in a self-choice ceremony, begat upon her a son named Yaudheya. And Bhima also obtaining for a wife Valandhara, the daughter of the king of Kasi, offered his own prowess as dower and begat upon her a son named Sarvaga. And Arjuna also, repairing to Dwaravati, brought away by force Subhadra. the sweet-speeched sister of Vasudeva, and returned in happiness to Hastinapura. And he begat upon her a son named Abhimanyu endued with all accomplishments and dear to Vasudeva himself. And Nakula obtaining for his wife Karenumati, the princess of Chedi, begat upon her a son named Niramitra. And Sahadeva also married Vijaya, the daughter of Dyutimat, the king of Madra, obtaining her in a self-choice ceremony and begat upon her a son named Suhotra. And Bhimasena had some time before begat upon Hidimva a son named Ghatotkacha. These are the eleven sons

Jarasandha's daughter as one of the Pandava wives in mentioned in the first section of Ashramavasa Parva

Kunti, and Draupadi, and she of the Sattwata race, possessed of great fame, and Ulupi, the daughter of the snake chief, and queen Chitrangada, and the sister of Dhrishtaketu, and the daughter of Jarasandha,--these and many other ladies, O chief of men, used to wait upon the daughter of Suvala like maids of all work.

Edited by varaali - 12 years ago

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Vrish

@Vr15h

Viewbie

+ 4

Posted: 12 years ago

Vaarali

The names of Arjun's & Sahadev's sons here seem to contradict the ones given in Haranaharana parva

And because Arjuna's son was born upon his return from exile during which he had achieved many celebrated feats, that child came to be called Srutakarman. While Nakula named his son Satanika after a royal sage of that name, in the illustrious race of Kuru. Again the son that Draupadi bore to Sahadeva was born under the constellation called Vahni-daivata (Krittika), therefore was he called after the generalissimo of the celestial host, Srutasena (Kartikeya).

The mention of Karenamati as princess of Chedi doesn't mention whether she was Sishupala's sister or daughter. The one you wrote about Valandhara is new to me - this may have been someone different from Jalandhara, who was sister of Bhanumati. After all, Bhanumati was the princess of Trigarta & sister of Susharma, wasn't she? And she had a sister Jalandhara who was enamored of Bhima, but never married him. In other words, Valandhara was the princess of Kasi, who did marry Bhima, while Jalandhara was the princess of Trigarta, who didn't.

Total #sons - make that 12. Ghatotkacha, Prativindhya, Satsoma, Yaudheya, Sarvaga, Iravana, Abhimanyu, Shrutakarman, Satanika, Nirmitra, Shrutasena & Suhotra. Not necessarily in chronological order, and not including Babruvahana.

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246851

Hibernated

Posted: 12 years ago

Originally posted by: varaali

I had no idea that Bhima married anyone other than Draupadi & Hidimba.

I am fairly certain that Bhima did have a wife by the name Jalandhara (also spelt Valandhara) She was the princess of Kashi and sister to Bhanumati. I am surprised she is not mentioned in MB. IIRC, there was a serial titled 'Draupadi' (aired on Sahara One) with Mrinal Kulkarni in the lead role. Despite its many flaws, it was very good, with one of the best portrayals of Draupadi till date. Jalandhara's marriage was shown there.

for now, i am just going to add this, as the thread is very interesting and full of information and i donot have much to share.

I was a sucker of that soap, i remember, mrinal was very pretty and at times i thought she was even better than roopa, the casting was quite cool, this hot guy, i think indraneil played lord K and he is dusky, and they showed some accurate stuff. there was the first time the mention of other wives of pandavas were made. but draupadi does remain the principal wife or the Queen, others were not maharani or mahadevi. they were wives and consorts but she was the one who shared the throne with them as well the vanvaas.

as for the whole mahabharat thing, according to me, it wasnt composed by one poet over year, rather different poets have contributed to it tending towards the enormous volume, they might have added in the name of vyas since he was the most famous of the lot or may be they were schools of writers who all belonged the school named vyas. Infact, i dont know if u guys refer to nrishinghaprasad bhaduris writings, those are the ones i liked to read. he has propouned this theory over and over again for both mahabharata and ramayan that nagas and vanaras were not snakes and monkeys for example, but actually tribes of original dravidian india, aboriginal india, who used the totems of snake or monkeys and most probably emulated some of their characteristics. this might be the reason why iravan or his progeny was not considered for the aryan kingdom hierarchy, because they themselves had their own tribes to manage and it was more of a marriage of alliance rather than coming and living together. Similarly ghatotkach, was a representative of a clan of so called rakshashas and their leaders. they were small rulers on their own and therefore didnt need to stake the claim on the throne of delhi. I dont know much about draupadi's sons, they probably were unmarried or even if they were married didnt have an issue. Avimanyu was only 16 at the time of his marriage, so it is highly unlikely that one or other of draupadi's sons were not married, but most probably they didnt leave any issues. thus the direct blood related aryan descendant that survived the war zeroed down to parikshit. can someone throw some light over the children of the kauravas? Considering how just and dharmaparayan the pandavas were, it is not likely that they were deprived of any rights.

also written documents of Mahabharat comes at a much later period, earky manuscript is more shruti based, so there is a possibility that there are different versions of certain things, leading towards confusion.

Edited by Tannistha - 12 years ago

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