+* Pandava parivar *+ - Page 11

Anyway, any recollections of where this kingdom was located? Edited by .Vrish. - 11 years ago

I was researching on the river Aswa (as varaali had mentioned that this was the river Karna was let float in) and its path hoping to find the location of Kunti Bhoja's kingdom.

This is what I've been able to gather. I have pieced together the info I got from various sites. 

The river Aswa or Aswanadi was known as Pushpawati earlier and is currently known as Pahuj. It joins the Chambal River (known as Charmanvati in the earlier ages) which in turn flows into the river Sind and then to Yamuna, finally joining the Ganga.

Charmanvati River was the southern border of the Panchala Kingdom.

Kunti Bhoja is supposed to be Surasena's brother. Krishna refers to Kunti as Aunt and the stories say Kunti Bhoja adopted on of his brother's daughters as his own. I don't know if Surasena was Kunti Bhoja's own brother or cousin. It could be that their forefathers were brothers and the kingdom got divided between them. Otherwise, I didn't understand why one was called Bhoja and the other a Vrishni Yadhava (Krishna is addressed as Varshneya by Arjuna but could refer to the descendents of Vrishni in general). Probably we have to trace them back to Yadu's sons.

This opens a new set of doubts for me - if Vasudeva was Kunti Bhoja's bother, why didn't he come to Vasudeva's rescue when Kamsa imprisoned his brother and his wife. Probably Kamsa's prowess kept him at bay, still... The epics do portray Kunti Bhoja in a cowardly fashion. Sending his daughter to Rishi Durvasa instead of meeting the sage himself.

Let's get back to the Kunti Kingdom.


What I meant to say is that Surasena's and Ugrasena's Kingdom should have been near Kamanti Bhojpur. Since the Charmanvati river flowed into Avanti Kingdom as well, Avanti should have been a neighbour too.


So, that puts the kingdom somewhere in Madhya Pradesh - Rajasthan Border region. I hope I got the place right.


Some sites refer to the capital city of Kunthi Bhoja's kingdom as Kamanti Bhojpur. Kunti Bhoja and his family must have lived here. Some stories say Sage Durvasa came to Kunti Bhoja's palace and Kunti served him in the palace. Some other stories say, Sage Durvasa came to perform Puja in a shrine in Kamanti Bhojpur. There must have been a Shrine (Lord Shiva's, probably) where Sage Durvasa offered prayers and Kunti served him. Karna must have been born in this place or the surrounding forests. No idea if a shrine still exists in this place. If it does, it must be a very old temple or it could be in ruins.


Archaeological findings in Kutwar, (Morena Dist., M.P., 25 km, North of Gwalior) found around 1996 A.D.,  considered to be ancient India's Kamanti Bhojpur, has been dated around 5th or 6th Century B.C.

Karna could have been found by Adiratha and Radha somewhere downstream of Pahuj River. I don't know where exactly he grew up. It is possible that he could have heard of the competition and traveled from his home to Hastinapur. It was common to travel long distances to participate in competitions and celebrations those days.

It is also said that this place was one of the capitals of Nagas (Capitals? I think it could have been one of the gateways to the Nagas' Abode). Also, in the Mahabharat, when Bheema was poisoned and thrown into a river, he was taken away to the Naga Kingdom where he met Vasuki and his maternal grandfather Aryaka ( again, I have to research further as to how Aryaka was Bheema's grandfather - from Kunti's side).


That is all I could fathom. I haven't been to the North except for trip or two. Hence, the places are still unkown to me. I could only suggest the location based on the maps available.

I think I put forth more questions than answers this time... 😳
Edited by Vibhishna - 11 years ago

I read some stories that Kunti chose Pandu as her husband in a Swayamvara. It is possible as she was praised as a lady of good virtues and had served Sage Durvasa and was blessed by him. So. Kunti Bhoja could have held a Swyamvar for his foster daughter. It was also said that Pandu left for war on his wedding night itself and was very victorious in his conquests. On the way back home (Hastinapur, I think), Pandu married Madri, Shalya's sister. He was apprehensive of what Kunti might say and tried to introduce her in a diplomatic way.I don't know where this information comes from and I don't understand why he was apprehensive. The royal women were used to the men marrying more than one woman. Some stories say that Kunti was upset in the beginning but she and Madri got along really well later on.

Vibs

Originally posted by: .Vrish.

Vibs

As you point out, Kunti was the birth sister of Vasudev, and their common father was Shura.  Kunti being Shura's first born, was adopted out to Kuntibhoj.  It's not mentioned whether Kuntibhoj and Shura were related.  So the reason Krishna regarded Kunti as his aunt was that she was Vasudev's sister.  Had Kuntibhoj been Vasudev's brother, she would have been Krishna's cousin, and Krishna would have been a mama to the Pandavas, which wasn't the case.

On the location of the kingdom, while it was common to travel long distances to participate in competitions, this competition was purely a Kuru family event, which Karna crashed.  There is no way he'd have heard of it had he lived far: only if he lived nearby would he have known about it, since it would have been a highly anticipated event for the people of Hastinapur.  The other possibility of course is that Adhiratha and Radha found Karna on the Ashwa river, but after getting him, they may have moved to Hastinapur or to a nearby kingdom.

Sorry, I messed up that bit of explanation on the relationship. Corrected it now.

The competition was a Kuru event but it was proclaimed all over the land. It could have reached beyond the borders of the Kaurava Kingdom. The main purpose of this event was to display the Kaurava (and Pandava) princes' talents. Thus, it was expected to be attended by many more than just the residents of Hastinapur. Also, Drona could have been proclaiming his students' valour (either as a proud teacher or as a warning to Drupad). Just speculations - I could be wrong. It is true that Adhiratha and his family could have moved to Hastinapur or a nearby village. Or, Adhirath's family could have moved to Hastinapur after he got the job of a charioteer. Any ideas as to how long he served the Kaurava royals as the charioteer or if Adhirath served another king before - any information on Adhirath at all?

Originally posted by: Vibhishna

I read some stories that Kunti chose Pandu as her husband in a Swayamvara. It is possible as she was praised as a lady of good virtues and had served Sage Durvasa and was blessed by him. So. Kunti Bhoja could have held a Swyamvar for his foster daughter. It was also said that Pandu left for war on his wedding night itself and was very victorious in his conquests. On the way back home (Hastinapur, I think), Pandu married Madri, Shalya's sister. He was apprehensive of what Kunti might say and tried to introduce her in a diplomatic way.I don't know where this information comes from and I don't understand why he was apprehensive. The royal women were used to the men marrying more than one woman. Some stories say that Kunti was upset in the beginning but she and Madri got along really well later on.

Was adhirath not a saarathi to dhritrashtra when he had found karna and then later resigned his post?

^^^ No, there is nothing in the Mahabharata that suggests that Adhiratha was Dhritarashtra's sarathi.  That is something that BRC pulled out of nowhere.

Ok then why was he called suta putra?

B'cos Adhirath adopted him.  That's not in dispute.  What is in dispute is the depiction in BRC of Adhirath as Dhritarashtra's charioteer.