Doubts and Discussions from the Ramayan II - Page 82

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Vrish

@Vr15h

IF-Stunnerz

+ 4

Posted: 12 years ago

#811

I'm thrilled that the forum has re-opened while the serial is being re-aired. Get to post relevant stuff in this forum once again. 🥳

There is a lot of new stuff in the Krittivas Ramayan, which I didn't previously know, which can be found in this thread

Ramayan of Krittivas Ojha: a study

Highly recommended, since a lot of things that are not there in Valmiki, Kamban, Tulsidas, are nonetheless found here, and explains a lot of questions that I previously had

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MagadhSundari

@MagadhSundari

IF-Rockerz

+ 4

Posted: 12 years ago

#812

I'm here I'm here!!! How about a very first doubt for this thread - one of the tracks that was trimmed out of the show so far was from Sita's childhood in Mithila, when an arrogant king named Sudhanva comes to worship the Shiv Dhanush, fails to lift it, and leaves in a huff. This sets the scene for Sita lifting the bow in her childhood and proving that she is no ordinary child early on. Sooo... question is: any source for this Sudhanwa story, and any other stories you guys can share on Sita's childhood from any source at all? I remember BRC's Ramayan giving all kinds of details on how highly educated she was and that each sister from Team SUMS had a subject of expertise, Sita's being astronomy... they made it kind of empowering in terms of girls getting educated for as long as they want in whatever field they want. Looked a tad anachronistic but still cool. So... yeah... Sita's childhood anyone?

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Vrish

@Vr15h

IF-Stunnerz

+ 4

Posted: 12 years ago

#813

Originally posted by: lola610
I'm here I'm here!!! How about a very first doubt for this thread - one of the tracks that was trimmed out of the show so far was from Sita's childhood in Mithila, when an arrogant king named Sudhanva comes to worship the Shiv Dhanush, fails to lift it, and leaves in a huff. This sets the scene for Sita lifting the bow in her childhood and proving that she is no ordinary child early on. Sooo... question is: any source for this Sudhanwa story, and any other stories you guys can share on Sita's childhood from any source at all? I remember BRC's Ramayan giving all kinds of details on how highly educated she was and that each sister from Team SUMS had a subject of expertise, Sita's being astronomy... they made it kind of empowering in terms of girls getting educated for as long as they want in whatever field they want. Looked a tad anachronistic but still cool. So... yeah... Sita's childhood anyone?

Lola

This was discussed once here in the context of what Sita's age was when she married. When Janak narrated his family anticedants to Dasharath b4 the weddings, he narrated how Sudhavna had demanded Shiva's bow, as well as Sita's hand in marriage. Janak however killed him in battle, and handed over his kingdom to Kushadhwaj, the father of Mandavi & Shrutakirti.

The way the serial showed it was a caricature, and nothing even close to what actually happened.

Edited by _Vrish_ - 12 years ago

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Vrish

@Vr15h

IF-Stunnerz

+ 4

Posted: 12 years ago

#814

I have a different question:

What was the criteria Valmiki used to segregate his chapters? There were quite a few things that would have made me do it differently.

For starters, I'd have put the history of Ravan, Hanuman and Vali in Balkand, rather than Uttarkand, since all that happened b4 Rama's birth. In Krittivas, he seems to put the origins of Rama's ancestors there as well. I'd have started Ayodhyakand w/ the completion of their gurukul, and Rama killing Taraka & Subahu, and it would have included Sita's swayamvar. I'd have ended that chapter w/ the death of Dasharath, and started Aranyakand w/ Bharat's return to Ayodhya, or Bharat setting off for the forest.

Kishkindhakand started off right, but where was the need for a Sundarkand, which was just from the point of Hanuman crossing the ocean to his returning to Rama. I'd have started Sundarkand w/ Lakshman reminding Sugriv of his duties and the search for Sita, and continued it up to the beginning of the war. B'cos events like Angad's visit to Ravan, Vibhishan getting expelled, et al certainly don't belong in Yudhyakand, since they precede it.

I'd have ended Yudhyakand w/ Ravan's killing, and started Uttarkand from the crowning of Vibhishan. Or ended Yudhayakand w/ Rama leaving Lanka in his Pushpak, and started Uttarkand w/ Rama's return to Ayodhya. Here, I'd not have included the entire stories of Ravan & all, but just mentioned that the rishis visited Rama and narrated to him those stories. I would also have expanded more on the 10000 years that Rama & Sita ruled b4 her exile.

Does anyone else have any insight as to why the Ramayan was divvied up the way it was, or opinions on the above splits?

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Vibhishna

@Vibhishna

Goldie

Posted: 12 years ago

#815

I think that's because Sage Valmiki was focusing on the events of Lord Ram's life alone.

Balkand focused on Ram's birth, the events which led to it (perhaps not the entire set). The four princes were still in their late teens and this kand ends with them leading a peaceful life in the Palace of Ayodhya.

Ayodhyakand starts much later I think, after 10 or 14 years after the wedding. I think the sudden gap of so many years in the story would have divided this kand if it had started at some other point.

I don't think there would be any doubts on Kishkindhakand. It probably ends where it does because all the important events in Kishkindha has been explained.

I've read before that Sundarkand focused solely on Hanuman and his resolve on reaching his goal. It is believed by many that reading the Sundarkand enables a person to focus on his goal and many a time this kand has been recited separately.

I feel Vibhishan being expelled, Angad's visit to Ravan et al are a part of Yudhkand. All of these events are indispensable as far as the war was concerned. I think explaining why some changed sides and the last offer of peace being rejected must be included before the start of the war.

I'm OK with the Yudhkand ending with Ram's coronation as an extension of Ram's victory. I'd consider reaching Ayodhya safe and in time to save Bharath to be the end of all the troubles Ram faced.

Uttarkand explains what happens after the coronation. I too wondered why the stories about Ravan and others were put in here. I thought it was so because Sage Valmiki wanted to include them only when Ram himself was aware of the whole picture and the magnitude of his achievement and about his friends. These stories would not have been out of place in the Yudhkand or split up and Kishkndhakand and Yudhkand wherever applicable.

What I was irritated about was that there was almost nil information on Shathrugan, Shrutkirti, Mandvi, to some extent Bharat and Urmila. I'd have liked more information on them and more incidents in their life after their wedding and how they bought up their sons et al.

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Vrish

@Vr15h

IF-Stunnerz

+ 4

Posted: 12 years ago

#816

Vibs

You're back!!! How wonderful!!! I was hoping you'd visit this thread, which describes the Krittivas Ramayan, and weigh in on it @ your convenience

Ramayan of Krittivas Ojha: a study

On the above, the Balkand ended w/ their marriage, and Ayodhyakand started w/ Dasharath's desire to make Rama Yuvraj. I thought that it could have started earlier. Again, it's an open question how many years Rama & Sita spent in Ayodhya b4 their exile.

I've heard the same about Sundarkand as well, and that it's read in conjunction w/ Rama's coronation.

My opinions on the various points of the splits in the kandas came from mainly their lengths - Yudhyakand and Uttarkand were the longest. Which is why I thought the former should have been shorter, and ended w/ the end of Rama's exile, while Uttarkand (really Ayodhyakand II) should have started w/ Rama's return to Ayodhya. Have the coronation and everything else.

I agree that the Ramayan was completely Rama centric, but I agree w/ you that given that RBLS were all part of Vishnu's avatar, more focus should have been there Bharat, Shatrughan, Mandavi, Shrutakirti and Urmila. But note that in Valmiki, there is also next to nothing on how Sita raised KL - all of that was folklore from other sages. So it's not like Valmiki gave more attention to Sita than her sisters - the Uttarkand is almost solely about Rama, and aside from Sita's exile and the stories of Ravan and Hanuman, they're about various stories Rama heard and told - like Raja Ila, the Kalapathi of Kalanjar, and so on. Looks like everything in Ayodhya was so hunky dory that Rama had nothing else to do than listen to stories, as well as narrate them. 😕😆

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373202

Inactive

Posted: 12 years ago

#817

Its mentioned in the Gitapress translation of Valmiki Ramayana that Rama and Sita spent 12 years in Ayodhya after marriage( until exile).

About Sundarkand, all I know is that Sundar is another name for Hanuman. Originally, Valmiki wanted to name it Hanumankand but Hanuman did not accept it. Hence, Valmiki changed the name to Sundarkand and Hanuman unknowingly agreed, not knowing that Sundar was another name for himself.

There are several rumors that Uttarkand was not part of the original Valmiki Ramayan which is why Yudhkand probably ended with Rama's coronation. (This is just my guess though).

-Asha

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bhakti2

@bhakti2

Goldie

Posted: 12 years ago

#818

Hello - I am stranger here (although I had met JanakiRagunath on other forum😊) but just want to say I love your thread and have read through all pages and learned very much! I had watched all Ramayan when it aired before and was so soo happy to see it return. i really love to see Gurmeet as Ramji and Debina as Sita. Also my family watched it with the discs as we are very much watching mythos often and loving them. I did not know the forum here would reopen but that is such nice thing. Anyways, just wanted to thank you for so much wonderful writings here on so many topic - i loved reading all of it. you are all very much wise in all your readings and learning.