Vaidehi's Vanwas : Was it inevitable? - Page 3

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shruthiravi thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#21
@life for me God is that person who will go any extend to protect my trust on him/her. A person who can take scathing remarks from society, tolerate the barbs for my sake if I follow the limits or rather maryada.
For me Ram became God by taking the blame of Sita banishment on his head vindicating her purity forever. He delivered on the trust his Sitae placed on her Raghunandan. In Swayamvar Sita trusts him to lift the bow so that he satisfies her father's condition for marrying her, she trusts Ram to come to Lanka and liberate her. He crosses the ocean for her. And when world question her purity like other men who will emotionally blackmail their spouse in such a way so that leave on their own, he takes the decision of her banishment and thus the blame.
Krishna does the same for Arjuna. The man who was given a choice between Krishna without weapon and Krishna's power, chose Krishna because he trusted Krishna. All the adharma of war Krishna takes it on himself, including the curse of Gandhari that destroys his lineage, but at the same time protecting the lineage of Arjuna. Krishna delivers on the supreme trust his friend Arjuna placed on him.
If you want to become God, deliver on the trust that is kept on you. Use your physical power to deliver on the trust of your loved ones. Burn yourself to give light for others. Trust is the ultimate power you can get. And if you get that, never lose it.
For me the message of Ramayana and MB is this. God will always be there to hold you, if you observe limits, no matter what. So let your action be always be within limits and you will get the defense when you need it the most. And by limits I don't mean the law of tradition, but the laws of nature.
Nature's law can never go wrong. But if your action is not inline with nature's laws you will have to bear the fruits of that action, how much ever unpleasant it may be.
Edited by shruthiravi - 8 years ago
InsaneDivine thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#22
I agree with all the points you have made Shruthiravi... 😊 😊 It is deep and insightful... And I think it would have come from a lot of thinking, observation, introspection and self experience... My point was in the reference of them being taken as God and then learning about their lives... But I guess since I agree so I dnt think I need to add anything further... 😊
Edited by .life_is_fun. - 8 years ago
ILTHBEB thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#23

Originally posted by: .life_is_fun.


No issues dear.. 😊 In fact, it only shows out the sensitive side of ur personality... 😊 These scriptures have been debatable since forever... And ur questions do hold water... As a child I used to ask the same questions when I was first told about the story... It is only years later I came up to this interpretation...I feel u are questioning because Ram is perhaps meant to be questioned here... If after watching the whole story you or any rational thinking person stands by Sita and not Ram or his subjects, then Ram won his battle... If the society criticizes Ram's decision and keeps Sita at a higher pedestal than Ram then Ram's purpose is fulfilled and if people wud no more question or push women to give test for their purity, the ultimate aim is achieved.. Understanding his decision is not important also but understanding that no woman deserves a fate like Sita is very important and is mandatory...And this message Ramayan has been able to convey... That much is enough for the proper functioning of the society...Rest understanding should be left to time and experiences😊... Until humanity prevails... Human race will prevail... 😛 😛

And My id got locked this time... 😭 😭 I asked one of the mods to close my id... She happened to be good soul ... she directly closed it... No warning message ...No if .. No but... Seedha id shut... 😭 😆

I miss you too Nabz... I will have to again struggle on IF to be become goldie, rockerz and sizzlerz.. 😆 I do have an account on FB but we poor " Newbies " are not allowed to send PMs... We are in kindergarten of India Forums... 😆 The day I become senior member, this will be the first thing I will do... 😳 😳

And it will still take around four more months to properly resume my online life be it IF or Fb or TW... So I will be back to eating ur heads in around Feb 17... 😳 Till then whenever I am OL, I will try 2 scrap and disturb u guys... 😆

I have almost left if. You can send me scrap anytime n definitely i m waiting to get your fb id.:-) so spam more n more for being senior member.😆
Siya-Ram thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#24

Originally posted by: shruthiravi


@life for me God is that person who will go any extend to protect my trust on him/her. A person who can take scathing remarks from society, tolerate the barbs for my sake if I follow the limits or rather maryada.

For me Ram became God by taking the blame of Sita banishment on his head vindicating her purity forever. He delivered on the trust his Sitae placed on her Raghunandan. In Swayamvar Sita trusts him to lift the bow so that he satisfies her father's condition for marrying her, she trusts Ram to come to Lanka and liberate her. He crosses the ocean for her. And when world question her purity like other men who will emotionally blackmail their spouse in such a way so that leave on their own, he takes the decision of her banishment and thus the blame.
Krishna does the same for Arjuna. The man who was given a choice between Krishna without weapon and Krishna's power, chose Krishna because he trusted Krishna. All the adharma of war Krishna takes it on himself, including the curse of Gandhari that destroys his lineage, but at the same time protecting the lineage of Arjuna. Krishna delivers on the supreme trust his friend Arjuna placed on him.
If you want to become God, deliver on the trust that is kept on you. Use your physical power to deliver on the trust of your loved ones. Burn yourself to give light for others. Trust is the ultimate power you can get. And if you get that, never lose it.
For me the message of Ramayana and MB is this. God will always be there to hold you, if you observe limits, no matter what. So let your action be always be within limits and you will get the defense when you need it the most. And by limits I don't mean the law of tradition, but the laws of nature.
Nature's law can never go wrong. But if your action is not inline with nature's laws you will have to bear the fruits of that action, how much ever unpleasant it may be.


Great post. Thanks for sharing. 👏 👏. Infact reading ur analysis in symbolism thread my views changed. I don't know before it was just going and praying no overthinking. But now when I go to temples I feel a different kind of bhakthi. Stay within ur maryada. God will deliver on ur trust has been deeply etched in me now and will be forever.
Edited by Cluny123 - 8 years ago
..Ananya.. thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#25
It has been an absolute pleasure reading all the replies and view points. So many interesting things have come up.
Someone here pointed out how it is always the women who is questioned and put down. I could not agree with you more. It struck me that if it was Ram in the place of Sita, who would have been captured and held, would the society ask him to give a purity test? Probably not!

Some other person drew a parallel between Narendra Modi and Ram (lol) but the main difference is that one is normal human being whereas the latter is a divine entity. Ram had far more influence on his people than any other politician ever will. Ram had the perseverance, the calm and clarity which is hard to find in anyone else. It is these qualities which make me question his decision of abandoning his wife.

I agree with Luv-Kush, The epic should have been called Sitayan instead of Ramayan, it is a testimony of turmoil, conflicts, struggle, love and devotion a wife has for her husband. ( I don't want any abuses for this statement, it is my personal opinion and you are allowed to differ. I understand that Ram also underwent immense sadness because of the seperation but in my opinion he bought it on himself)
..Ananya.. thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#26

Originally posted by: shruthiravi

@Ananya Ram had to deal with perceptions. Deep trenched perceptions that a woman is dispensable. If you see Ram goes around and sees none of his praja will take back the woman who was in another man's custody. They tolerate Sita being the queen just because of the power factor and nothing else. They actually don't like her as the queen, because the perception is that she is impure. How will you change perception. By living a life. How did Ram do with Aswamedha horse, a golden aswamedha horse. Same thing he is going to do with Sita. A golden statue of her in all the rituals where wife is needed with the husband. He doesn't go for second marriage which a king of those times could have easily done. He is showing the praja their reflection with the golden statue. She was sacrificed because they think her impure, not him . For him she is pure and no other woman can take her place in his life. Only that yogi life Ram led dedicated to a single woman, even in her absence breaks the perception. Guilt is there in the praja as they forced their king to live such a life away from his wife and kids.

Coming to Mithila. Yes she can go there. But even there, a woman discarded by her husband, the society wont take it lightly. Also it will look bad on her father who has stood for the knowledge. People will feel if a girl is educated, liberated then her married life can go in jeopardy which is happening even today. As we blame woman's financial independence major cause of divorces. So her father's policies also can be questioned. Hence it was good for her to be in ashram. There she was free and at peace only thing was that she was living a humble life.
Coming to prove her purity. yes Ram gives her the chance with his yogi like life and Sita proves her purity beyond doubt when she calls Mother Earth and disappears. Sita rejects Ayodhya by that action of hers, yet doing all her duties towards her husband. Even today a man wants a wife like Sita, what more can be the testimonial for her purity, when a woman doesn't want a husband like Ram. Ram took the blame on his head to vindicate his spouse not then, but forever. Sita was Janaki, but Ram became Siyaram
It is actually not Vanvass if you look. Hari sends Mahalakshmi from a place where she is not valued.


Your last statement won me over but my question remains the same, everybody wants a wife like Sita because of her unflinching devotion, faith and love for her husband. But what did this love bring her? Just pain and pangs of seperation.
Nobody wants a husband like Ram (though I doubt this statement) because Ram as a husband failed to protect his wife and restore her dignity. Sita did that for herself when she went back to Mother Earth.
I never said that Ram should order his praja to respect Sita because resoect is something which can never be bought, it can only be earned. During the whole Ashwameda episode, Ram had a heart to heart conversation with his people, everybody got a chance to put across their opinion then what happened during Sita's vanwaas. She was literally ordered to leave without being given a chance to say anything in her defence.

If Ram became Siyaram, Sita was also referred to as Rama and Rampyari. I agree that this vanwaas was painful for both of them but a heftier price was paid by Sita.
shruthiravi thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#27
@ananya if time permit read my fiction seven vows. I have used concepts of mythology as I understood in that.it is still work in progress. Check whether you can connect with sreedhar varma .link to fiction is in my signature. Telling it because you liked my last line
Edited by shruthiravi - 8 years ago
CutiepieAD thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#28

Originally posted by: ..Ananya..

It has been an absolute pleasure reading all the replies and view points. So many interesting things have come up.

Someone here pointed out how it is always the women who is questioned and put down. I could not agree with you more. It struck me that if it was Ram in the place of Sita, who would have been captured and held, would the society ask him to give a purity test? Probably not!

Some other person drew a parallel between Narendra Modi and Ram (lol) but the main difference is that one is normal human being whereas the latter is a divine entity. Ram had far more influence on his people than any other politician ever will. Ram had the perseverance, the calm and clarity which is hard to find in anyone else. It is these qualities which make me question his decision of abandoning his wife.

I agree with Luv-Kush, The epic should have been called Sitayan instead of Ramayan, it is a testimony of turmoil, conflicts, struggle, love and devotion a wife has for her husband. ( I don't want any abuses for this statement, it is my personal opinion and you are allowed to differ. I understand that Ram also underwent immense sadness because of the seperation but in my opinion he bought it on himself)


Hey !
I was not replying in this thread as I feel everyone has a right to express themselves and i loved to read the discussion here, very informative and some strong points shared by all sides.. just posting my views, I don't know how much correct I am, just based on my understanding :)

Coming to your question, u answered it yourself.. it's always a woman who is questioned not a man. And I agree if Ram would have been held captive then he wouldn't have been questioned or asked to give an Agnipariksha.
It's just because Sita was a woman she had to go through all this. But why are we just talking about Sita? Why aren't we talking about Ahilya? Leave Ahilya what about that Dhobi's daughter? What was her crime? And Dhobi's wife and all other women in the society, all had to bear the same.

Every women had to go through this, and no one would have even mentioned about this in history. Women's contribution is easily chopped off from the pages of history. Like Ram's ancestors made great sacrifices, Raja Harishchandra etc all are great kings. Don't u think their wives had contribution in their husbands' victory? Didn't they live a tough life like Sita? But do you know his wife's name?
Ram was infact the first one who tried to change perceptions about women. By liberating Ahilya n then Sita. He gave equal rights to Sita by making her sit along side him on the throne.

As u said Ram had persuasive power. Yes! That's how he changed Ashwamedh yagya laws. But that time he was a prince, and his father actly was ready to do anything for him, and as a prince he didn't have knowledge about everything, he thought what he said his praja believes, but didn't know that maybe they just pretend to believe. Maybe in their hearts they still had doubts regarding it? Moreover Ashwamedh yagya issue was a very small issue, whereas issues regarding women are highly debatable.

So simple persuasive speech will never have any effect. He did try, didn't he? (Abt women issues) What he got, a rebellion from Dhobi. And then he saw those ppl who were standing supporting him in the court, were actly agreeing with the Dhobi when the king was not around, hence imposition of law might make them pretend to accept Sita as queen but they will never accept her in their heart n continue with the same cruelty with their own wives n other women.
Now by sending Sita away to Valmiki's ashram, with full security and safety(about which only he knew noone else) he created a perception of him being a husband who "banished" his wife, who was pure. Yes it was already proved that she was pure as she had given the AP. Thus the blame shifted to Ram and Sita was left untouched.

And this is the first time a Man is blamed and not a Woman. (Hope this is the answer to your question)

After Sita went away Ram made his own actions questionable by the praja, hence the rules can be changed now and the women after Sita led a far better life.

Now let's imagine if Ram had forced his people to accept Sita as their queen. Ram would have been happy with his wife and child, but would sita be happy? Don't u think she would have not come to know about these rumors? Maybe she would have been questioned by Luv Kush about her purity. And ages after ages, she wouldn't have been regarded as pure. Maybe Sita would have herself felt tortured and left the palace and then would we call her a great wife? And as always she would have lost her importance like all women lose, her sacrifice, her struggle, noone would have talked about. Maybe we would have remembered Ram as a great king though..

Sita was a women with strong character and devotion, but if her story of struggles has been able to reach us then it's because of this great sacrifice by Ram, so that her character remains untouched but his character of being Maryada Purushottam is blemished or becomes questionable. That's why Ram is regarded as God.

And your last line, I agree Ram took the pain upon himself. But it's not that Sita was forced to live in pain. Even she made a great sacrifice, and a choice as well, to suffer separation from her husband for the greater good of mankind. She could have walked back and questioned Ram or the society? She did oppose Ram when he was not taking her to Vanvas, then why not now? Because she trusted that there's something deep going on inside Ram's mind and played her role in this great sacrifice. Thus Sita regarded as Goddess

It's Ram's sacrifice for Sita(which remains hidden n is much beyond our understanding) and Sita's trust on Ram(which no circumstances could shake) because of which they are called the ideal couple.

And about Ramayana or Sitayan. U might have noticed that in the song only Sita's side of story was discussed. (To make Ayodhya ppl see her greatness) so that was indeed Sitayan, (Sita's story)
but Ram too went through same pain throughout, he roamed around forest to forest searching her like anything without food, water etc, crossed a great ocean, with a vanarsena defeated the mighty army of Ravan n finally Ravan himself without much equipments but with his love for Sita..
Before this Luv Kush incident all were singing Ram's praise, Ramayana was sung, but noone knew about Sita's struggles, but making situations turn in this way he let Sita's struggles reach us and gave us the message that the epic is Sitayan as much as it is Ramayana... neither of them are superior...

in the patriarchal society with king's boasting about their victory, sacrifice and love, Ram let his wife's contribution shine. I don't know about anyone else but atleast for me Ram stands tall, regard him as a divine soul or a human whose actions turned him into divine, both ways 😊

PS sorry for the long post 😛😆



@Shruthi Di, I have got this understanding from ur posts in your symbol thread... thank u for making me see the greatness of Lord Ram n now Lord Krishna in a way I never saw before...
Krishna taking Arjun 's blame on himself 👍🏼



Edited by aditi97 - 8 years ago
Suganya.S thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#29
Wow , Great discussion and Greater points about this delicate topic 👏👏
To say the Truth , uttar ramayan was the part i came to know later .. Though disappointed by the act of Ram first , after much reading and much more insights into the Epic , Gradually i really felt it was inevitable for both Ram and Sita to come across lots of hurdles and sorrows in their life , so as to preach through their life that ,however twisted the circumstances be - We should face it with courage and self-respect , while still keeping in mind of Greater good and one's Dharma !!!

Ram followed his king's dharma and proved one should follow their dharma even above their vyakthikat suffering !! Siya followed a Mother's dharma of protecting her children and raising them , even after she was so dejected after being abandoned by her husband !!! Though they were incarnation of God in human form , still went through all dejections of normal human and that's wat have made them revered even after so many generations and the epic still stands Tall among many .

My pov is that perceptions of any action can change in every individual's eye in sands of time , but wat stays in mind is their sacrifice and how they followed their respective duty 😳 Again to learn life's lesson from Epics and to follow them is a decision of respective individual and that's wat makes these Epics Greatly Revered and Remembered !!
shruthiravi thumbnail
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Posted: 8 years ago
#30
Thanks aditi for the credit. But unless I have been convinced of Ram's action I wouldnt have put it there. Because according to me you can convince others, only if you can convince yourself. Second to understand anything we need an open mind. A mind that has not made any assumptions. Kind of trust that there is some reason, because Vishnu cannot go wrong, then why I am feeling what he did is wrong. So there is some lack of knowledge in me or the way I understand the world. So I strive to correct my understanding. Always.

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