Suicide: Who is responsible? Individual/society

First Previous

Page

Frequent Posters

Vintage.Wine

@Vintage.Wine

Voyager

Posted: 12 years ago

#81

Originally posted by: boreddamsel

😆 You are trying to get me to read your posts aren't you?! Sneaky. 😛

Hahaha ..exactly ...Thanks for reading ..Now that I have succeeded, I ll try to get you to do something else ..Something even crazier and may be funny ? ..😆

Vintu ...😛

Quote

boreddamsel

@boreddamsel

Rocker

+ 5

Posted: 12 years ago

#82

Originally posted by: Vintage.Wine

Hahaha ..exactly ...Thanks for reading ..Now that I have succeeded, I ll try to get you to do something else ..Something even crazier and may be funny ? ..😆

Sure, bring it on. I will feign interest, pakka! 😊

Quote

Looks like you are new here. Register for free, learn and contribute.

Vintage.Wine

@Vintage.Wine

Voyager

Posted: 12 years ago

#83

Originally posted by: boreddamsel

Agreed! It takes a lot of courage to end your life .. and its not just a suicide bomber. Imagine well someone who wants to kill themselves, who has been thinking about it for a while .. picking up that knife and hovering it over their wrist, knowing that if they dig it in there is no turning back. So they have to be really determined to take their life and that too push themselves past the fear of killing themselves.

Hm ...You are darn too right ...I can't imagine how those people who are all forlorn ..and have devastated state of mind ..<<Which I see as weakness ..gather such courage at that one moment in time ...People burn themselves alive ..swig pison and die a slow, smothering, painful death ..Does the pain of being alive truly exceed such dreadful pain? I don't think it does in every case...Some do stupid things in the heat of the moment without realizing the rammifications that might ensue from that..

Suicide bombers are a different cult though ..Which prolly is an indication of the entropy ..Think of it this way ..Can anyone motivate you no matter how hard they try to kill people and kill yourself too ? That sounds impossible to me ..unless something in my brains is seriously missing ..Or the whole brain is missing ...😆 ..I must read more about how people motivate others to kill ..And if I understand that well ..May be I ll be able to get someone ..Um .may be you ? to kill me ...😆

Yikes.. I am not going to look at my hand. I am one of those people with too many lines and everyone who claims to be able to read palms goes silent and looks really upset when they look at my hand. 😕

Oh! I see ..Too many lines ain't too good indeed ..A hand must be clean ..and the lines well defined ...Alright send me your hand and I ll see ...😆

Vintu...😛

Quote

moomin4455

@moomin4455

Dazzler

+ 2

Posted: 12 years ago

#84

Originally posted by: boreddamsel

Wait.. so does this mean every person who is diagnosed with clinical depression is at risk for suicide? Mooms, you said its a disease .. how do you get it? Trauma? How do you know if its clinical depression or just a phase that could be resolved by I don't know, by being with friends or getting some sleep or crying and letting out the worries.. I mean how long do you wait to know if its something you need to go to the doctor for or if its just something that will pass. I know people who claim they are depressed and take anti-depressants.. though they still look normal and interact with others normally.. just wondering!

Btw, now that you brought up teenage suicide.. even cyber bullying is one of the main causes of suicide especially among teens! And well, we see a lot of that on this forum .. the bullying, and hopefully not the depression!

Mooms 😆 too cute!

Well BD clinical depression is vastly different from being depressed, hugging it out and feeling better. You can be genetically predisposed towards having it i.e. it can run in your family. Doesn't mean you'll be depressed but you're more likely to have a chemical imbalance. It could mean you suffer from bipolar disorder (highs and lows of moods), Disthymia which is the base level of depression that affects you all your life, or if you face trauma you are more likely to sink into severe depression.

But you can also be diagnosed as clinically depressed without having a family history of it. However, while a lot of people experience a traumatic event in their lives, become sad, possibly depressed, but eventually move on, people with clinical depression just cannot do that. I cannot emphasise how insidious the feelings of despair are in every aspect of life - it's just so pervasive to the point that you cannot function properly without some form of treatment. A good cry with friends and people telling you it'll be fine just doesn't help. I think you just know when you never recover or when it really starts to impair your life. I think friends and family can also help in ascertaining whether it's grieving/sadness or something more severe that one is going through.

Are all clinically depressed suicidal? I can't say for sure. But from logic and from what I've seen they may be more likely especially if they have some sort of traumatic event in their lives.

Edited by moomin4455 - 12 years ago

Quote

boreddamsel

@boreddamsel

Rocker

+ 5

Posted: 12 years ago

#85

Originally posted by: moomin4455
Mooms 😆 too cute!

Well BD clinical depression is vastly different from being depressed, hugging it out and feeling better. You can be genetically predisposed towards having it i.e. it can run in your family. Doesn't mean you'll be depressed but you're more likely to have a chemical imbalance. It could mean you suffer from bipolar disorder (highs and lows of moods), Disthymia which is the base level of depression that affects you all your life, or if you face trauma you are more likely to sink into severe depression.

But you can also be diagnosed as clinically depressed without having a family history of it. However, while a lot of people experience a traumatic event in their lives, become sad, possibly depressed, but eventually move on, people with clinical depression just cannot do that. I cannot emphasise how insidious the feelings of despair are in every aspect of life - it's just so pervasive to the point that you cannot function properly without some form of treatment. A good cry with friends and people telling you it'll be fine just doesn't help. I think you just know when you never recover or when it really starts to impair your life. I think friends and family can also help in ascertaining whether it's grieving/sadness or something more severe that one is going through.

Are all clinically depressed suicidal? I can't say for sure. But from logic and from what I've seen they may be more likely especially if they have some sort of traumatic event in their lives.

I see.

But how do you know if a person is really depressed or not .. how do you guide them to make the right decision? Especially in the US, I feel there is a lot of people who go into therapy and anti-depressants, because it is easily available to them. Heck, I walk into our clinic and say I am stressed .. and they recommend therapy for me. I know I might be depressed but definitely nothing that chatting with you guys can't cure!

But I know a friend of mine was depressed in our first year.. and she started taking pills and complained about hallucinations and stuff. I told her to not take the pills and just relax or do yoga or something to relieve her stress.. and she yelled at me saying I didn't understand her pain. So I just stepped aside and let her deal with it alone and told her I am here for her! It's just really difficult to help people who might be depressed .. remember we talked about grief the other day.. people who are depressed rarely like being reminded that they are depressed!

Quote

McNinja

@McNinja

Inactive

+ 3

Posted: 12 years ago

#86

@BD Of course they recommend therapy or some sort of drug at every turn, that's how American healthcare works. It doesn't work towards preventive care, rather take it as it comes and let the big suits profit.

The biggest oxymoron of it all is that antidepressants sometimes cause suicidal thoughts in people. One of the side effects listed by the FDA. How kind of them. So often when a person is starting out a new drug, it's best to be supervised...your friend hallucinations sound about right. I've seen first hand an anti-depressant story gone wrong, it ain't pretty.

There are symptoms you can look for... frequency of symptoms, is one more overpowering than another, combination of various factors. Sometimes there is an actual cause you can pinpoint. I've seen people with thyroid issues who become very depressed if their thyroid levels go to either extreme. They're on meds for the thyroid issue, and as long as that stays in check their depression stays at bay. So how do you diagnose something that's varies so much case to case? It's pretty hard to come up with a standard no as to what is the right decision, at what time, at what level etc, no?

Edited by McNinja - 12 years ago

Quote

boreddamsel

@boreddamsel

Rocker

+ 5

Posted: 12 years ago

#87

@M .. the sad thing is in India they don't even recommend therapy and people who need it never get it! It's like a taboo to talk about mental illness or undergoing therapy .. Someone my family knew was not mentally well, but was never diagnosed.. 'coz the family didn't want the patient to be called "crazy"! I hope this is not the case anymore.. and things are improving.. because recently I heard of a couple who went for couples' therapy ..

I think every disease varies from person to person, doesn't it? Isn't that why they put that disclaimer in teeny tiny letters on every medicine bottle! I mean its all based on clinical trials.. and how on earth could they test the medicine on every possible variety of the same disease! It's like bugs except in that cases its a piece of software and not a person's life! I think it ultimately comes down to the doctor and the patient... and trust between them.. trust the patient has in the doctor to open up to them.. and trust the doctor has that the patient is right.. that's the only way the doctor can determine what is best for the patient.

I wonder if the suicide helplines have helped reduce the number of suicides. Some people open up to strangers more than their family or people they know, including doctors! But again, sometime people who want to kill themselves might not even open up to others because they might feel others might try to stop them! The advances in mobile health will one day help patients who are suffering from depression.. fingers crossed!

Or we could admit defeat and say it comes down to fate ultimately!!

Edited by boreddamsel - 12 years ago

Quote

moomin4455

@moomin4455

Dazzler

+ 2

Posted: 12 years ago

#88

Originally posted by: boreddamsel
@M .. the sad thing is in India they don't even recommend therapy and people who need it never get it! It's like a taboo to talk about mental illness or undergoing therapy .. Someone my family knew was not mentally well, but was never diagnosed.. 'coz the family didn't want the patient to be called "crazy"! I hope this is not the case anymore.. and things are improving.. because recently I heard of a couple who went for couples' therapy ..

I think every disease varies from person to person, doesn't it? Isn't that why they put that disclaimer in teeny tiny letters on every medicine bottle! I mean its all based on clinical trials.. and how on earth could they test the medicine on every possible variety of the same disease! It's like bugs except in that cases its a piece of software and not a person's life! I think it ultimately comes down to the doctor and the patient... and trust between them.. trust the patient has in the doctor to open up to them.. and trust the doctor has that the patient is right.. that's the only way the doctor can determine what is best for the patient.

I wonder if the suicide helplines have helped reduce the number of suicides. Some people open up to strangers more than their family or people they know, including doctors! But again, sometime people who want to kill themselves might not even open up to others because they might feel others might try to stop them! The advances in mobile health will one day help patients who are suffering from depression.. fingers crossed!

Or we could admit defeat and say it comes down to fate ultimately!!

@N yep this is so true - big pharma companies focus on temporary alleviation of symptoms - not curing or preventing the disease. They have 20 year patents that focus on making us reliant on their products, who'd want to give that up?

@B yes, every individual reacts differently to a disease based on genetic background and environmental factors. same for medication - this is why some people on Prozac feel wonderful and others feel like killing themselves. There is a slow push to try tailor medicine for the individual based on their own genetics - certainly in the cancer field and it's beginning to be taken seriously in the big pharmaceutical corporations too.

The real threat to pharma companies is disease prevention. Many diseases, like alcoholism, clinical depression, have a genetic component to them or individuals have a genetic susceptibility to them, so disease prevention is certainly being approached from this aspect. Pharma companies will catch on that this is the way to go when they feel threatened by organisations that show disease prevention is successful rather than treatment.

Don't ask about clinical trials - if you knew the threshold that constitutes a successful clinical trial you'd never take medicine again. 😆

I think there is a point when you realise that what you're going through isn't just a regular old depressive episode or isn't normal. A person I know takes medication daily - I remember asking when he knew he needed medication. He told me that he would start having manic episodes, panicking at the slightest thought of anything stressful - anything like an exam, or a deadline, a laborious household chore. It impacted him so badly he had no other recourse apart from medication. He wasn't suicidal though.

Edited by moomin4455 - 12 years ago

Quote

boreddamsel

@boreddamsel

Rocker

+ 5

Posted: 12 years ago

#89

Originally posted by: moomin4455
Pharma companies will catch on that this is the way to go when they feel threatened by organisations that show disease prevention is successful rather than treatment.

Wait, has no one showed that yet? That can't be right. Else why the whole healthy food movement .. wasn't it to prevent chronic illness like diabetes and hypertension..? Or are you talking about alcoholism and depression ..? It seems dumb that people need to be convinced that prevention is better than cure .. isn't that an old saying? 😛 But then this attitude of for-profit companies doesn't surprise me!

Don't ask about clinical trials - if you knew the threshold that constitutes a successful clinical trial you'd never take medicine again. 😆

This is like me talking about umm.. some of the studies people in my field do 😆 Trust me, you wouldn't use certain mobile apps if I tell you how those things work!

I think there is a point when you realise that what you're going through isn't just a regular old depressive episode or isn't normal. A person I know takes medication daily - I remember asking when he knew he needed medication. He told me that he would start having manic episodes, panicking at the slightest thought of anything stressful - anything like an exam, or a deadline, a laborious household chore. It impacted him so badly he had no other recourse apart from medication. He wasn't suicidal though.

@Bold.. but so many people panic at the thought of exams, interviews, giving public presentations, deadlines .. not all of them are depressed right! I guess if the person thinks there is no other way out other than medicines, we can't do anything but to support them! But on the other hand, if they don't think they are depressed, again... we can't do anything to support them! Hmm..

Ok.. enough already.. ninja, moomin and bd will all go get work done now instead of commenting here! 😆 🤗