Eiffel Tower Incident: Disgrace to Women or Dignity to Indian Sadhus?- Page 7

Originally posted by: mnx12

Sadhus visit- disgrace or dignity to religion?

Why religion is dragged here? Just because of their cloths?

Disgrace is an exaggerated term here. No female staff is disgraced here. If the authorities would have explained them properly, such an exaggerated reaction could have been avoided. May be the authority thought it's just a normal protocol. But the event was given a different twist.

You cannot hide behind vague words. What is so bad about being a woman that they need to be hidden? Any religion or culture which wants women to be hidden is regressive and should be called out

Religion is dragged because it was an open religious event and everyone involved was chest thumping about the religion and openly promoting the religion. Otherwise no one would drag the religion.

Maybe take 2 seconds.to google before jumping in to reply if you don't even understand what the event was?

Originally posted by: PunnyPotato

Samee

Also in their temples they have made a human as god and his murti is bigger than actual gods.

But in this matter, a female sadhvi too has accompanied them, so making female leave makes no sense when they themselves had a female member traveling with them.

Also the fact how West never cares about India's and Hindus good deeds and it is turned into South Asia. Ab achanak se they remembered about Indians and Hindus when they got the first chance to blame that too for wrong reasons.

They didn't suddenly remember about India and Hindus. It was their own country and own culture and own place and they were discriminated.against. they didn't come here and accuse us of anything

They have every right to do it

Originally posted by: WormikaGrubby

Wow ,this keeps getting worse. It was probably a coincidence that the artisans turned out to be Dalit ,because caste and occupation do overlap a lot in rural areas and may not a case of them deliberately recruiting Dalits . But going by their gimmick from the sixties with the temple entry thing , and these questionable ' beliefs ' I'm pretty sure the worker is telling the truth about being told where his place is in the hierarchy. So they hired a bunch of poor people to construct their beautiful temples , locked them up and gave them crap in the name of mecidine instead of giving them proper treatment. Somebody badly needs to tell these people to get the hell out of the 18th century. Would they take the same ' medicines ' if one of them were to get sick ?

It's like what Mother Teresa did. She told lepers and the other destitutes she is supposed to have cared for that suffering is great because it brings you closer to God. She gave them Bibles instead of medicines and told her side kicks in white sarees to reuse syringes. But when she got sick her ass was promptly flown to L.A for the best treatment in the world.

Then there are those Muslim preachers who tell people hospitals are evil. And sick people end up dying because they had only been fasting and chanting kalmas without any real help.

Which is why religion, no matter which one, is a cancer to society. We are literally trying to follow bronze age fairy tales written by people in a different time and culture before we understood so much of the world

Life is about progressing forward, religion always binds us to old ills and regressive traditions

Originally posted by: WormikaGrubby

Wow ,this keeps getting worse. It was probably a coincidence that the artisans turned out to be Dalit ,because caste and occupation do overlap a lot in rural areas and may not a case of them deliberately recruiting Dalits . But going by their gimmick from the sixties with the temple entry thing , and these questionable ' beliefs ' I'm pretty sure the worker is telling the truth about being told where his place is in the hierarchy. So they hired a bunch of poor people to construct their beautiful temples , locked them up and gave them crap in the name of mecidine instead of giving them proper treatment. Somebody badly needs to tell these people to get the hell out of the 18th century. Would they take the same ' medicines ' if one of them were to get sick ?

It's like what Mother Teresa did. She told lepers and the other destitutes she is supposed to have cared for that suffering is great because it brings you closer to God. She gave them Bibles instead of medicines and told her side kicks in white sarees to reuse syringes. But when she got sick her ass was promptly flown to L.A for the best treatment in the world.

Then there are those Muslim preachers who tell people hospitals are evil. And sick people end up dying because they had only been fasting and chanting kalmas without any real help.

Which is why religion, no matter which one, is a cancer to society. We are literally trying to follow bronze age fairy tales written by people in a different time and culture before we understood so much of the world

Life is about progressing forward, religion always binds us to old ills and regressive traditions

Did I say it's bad to be a woman?

Did I say baps is a progressive sect?

It's just one of the sect of Sanatan Dharma. All sects & non sect believers don't even bother about what other sect is doing. Can the entire Sanatan Dharma be judged on basis of what one sect does? Every sect believes in different representatives of faith. But they all belong to Sanatan Dharma. So is it right to drag entire Hindu religion?

Use Google? Whatever happened to having background knowledge before copy pasting any view so proper justice is done to the subject?

If they have actually asked the women to be hidden then it's a big mistake. File a case against the institute. Ban them from all the countries including India. Give them proper punishment for behaving in this manner. Can that be done? Act instead of just raising voice.

But before reaching any conclusion, wait for the investigation results. Listen to both the sides.

A bit sorry to state it: one can't 'ban' or stop religions/sects to exist... and there are more than one reason for it (just think about that - one may find them)... it has nothing to do with modern times or stone age... religions/sects are forms of spirituality (unfortunately far too often coming with very precise agendas).

As for the temples... well, in South America, the temples of the Mayas and Inkas also had been v e r y big monuments of the respective religions... Was there any need to construct them? For them, there was...

Basically, one can judge the BAPS in which way one ever wants... it doesn't change that only the decision makers (SETE management) had been in the wrong.

Originally posted by: Clochette

A bit sorry to state it: one can't 'ban' oro stop religions/sects to exist... and there are more than one reason for it (just think about that - one may find them)... it has nothing to do with modern times or stone age... religions/sects are forms of spirituality (unfortunately far too often coming with very precise agendas).

Basically, one can judge the BAPS in which way one ever wants... it doesn't change that only the decision makers (SETE management) had been in the wrong.

Exactly. One can't ban any religious sect. They came in existanc because of strong reasons. Their good qualities attracted people. Specially women were happy because men of the house gave up bad habits like smoking, drinking, tobacco etc. That was the base of this sect followed by spiritual path.

All sects comes under Sanatan Dharma. They all represnt our faith, culture. At the same time this sect doesn't completely represent Hindus. So judging a religion on base of one event is wrong. One is free to avoid them. Baps does good work too. They contribute in social work. Once a week many of them volunteer for social cause. During natural calamities these monks come foreword to help. Some institutions don't hesitate in giving them contribution as they do proper justice with the funds. Their people are on all fields. So why ignore their good qualities. Just wait for investigation results. One can ignore the sect. Good & bad will be there even in other sects too.

I like it very much when people put the focus on the positive when there is something positive... and BAPS indeed represent a lot of what is positive (imo).

Originally posted by: Harish111

Which is why religion, no matter which one, is a cancer to society. We are literally trying to follow bronze age fairy tales written by people in a different time and culture before we understood so much of the world

Life is about progressing forward, religion always binds us to old ills and regressive traditions

I'm pretty religious. In terms of practices , beliefs ,and lifestyle too to a big extent. But it would be dishonest of me to present a grand case in favopur of religion because for one I'm a woman so there are lots of bones to pick with each religion and I have the privilege of keeping ' religious people ' at an arms length ,of staying in my own lane without getting fully sucked into any cult or group. For those who don't have that freedom yes it can really be awful. And if you look at most awful things from history ,they can be traced to some person who claimed to have a direct hotline to God. And as they say there's no hate like Christian love ( which applies to all religions across the board ).

On the other hand , some of the cruelest regimes were atheist; the Soviet union, Mao' s China , Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge. Even if you take religion out of the picture ,human beings would find other ways and excuses I've met some truly horrible religious people but the worst intolerance I faced personally came from a couple of atheists. .

In a place like India where we have some of the poorest of poor people who face the worst kind of discrimination on top of poverty , religion is a 'necessary evil ' because it gives them hope even when they know they ll never get out of hell they're trapped in in this lifetime. Faith gives them the power to get out of bed and face the day even when theres nothing but deprivation and humilation that's waiting for them. Fairy tales can be good in that sense.

So I guess at the end of the day , organised religion isn't the real culprit ,it's the organisers and their shitty organising skills . Whether religion good or bad depends entirely on what the believers ' priorities are. Do you want Jesus to save your soul or do just you want to ban gays from your waffle House ? Do you light a diya to mediate on God's radiance or do you light it to period shame the women in your family who might touch it when they're ' impure ' ? Do you want Allah to give you peace or do you want him to help you murder people who sing songs ? Do you want God to make sense of life or do you just want an excuse to make other people miserable ? It boils down to what the believers are up to .

Originally posted by: Clochette

Basically, one can judge the BAPS in which way one ever wants... it doesn't change that only the decision makers (SETE management) had been in the wrong.

If I went to South Africa and demanded that my interactions with black waiting staff be limited since it's against my beliefs to talk to dark skinned people , and if the hotel complied , would the management get all the blame or do I get some too for having had the audacity to voice such a ' request '? Let's say I issued a non apology afterwards claiming I never made this request and later it turned out that my religious book tells me not to speak to dark people , do I get still get the benefit of the doubt ; would charity work and Ted talks for drunks clear me of all wrong doing ?