Eiffel Tower Incident: Disgrace to Women or Dignity to Indian Sadhus?- Page 6

Naga Sadhus ,yes. They usually stay in their own areas but during Kumbh Mela they parade their stuff before the crowd. And we have Jain Digambar monks who are buck naked, without even the ash that Naga Sadhus smear themselves in. So on the odd day you could see a young male going from house to house in an apartment complex in Bombay with nothing but a stick. If you turn the TV on and switch to Aastha or Disha at the wrong time you can see male genitalia. These people are exempt from the public indecency thing because of legal loopholes in the Right to Freedom of Religion in Article 25. At some point austerity can morph into narcissism. These Sadhus and digambars don't for a moment wonder what it's like for women who live in the world of grihasthi to have to see male nudity without having consented to it. They make it all about themselves and their life choices.

I was gonna say ,that male entitlement which makes men think women have a fundamental obligation to make room for their comfort is the problem here. Where they ask women to ' adjust '. That none of this would have happened without it. But both the Director of Operations and the Director of Customer Relations at SETE are women . Theyre blaming shift managers now , and claiming nobody higher up had any idea . What are the odds of a shift supervisor thinking ," Oh I ll just ask the female staff to hide behind the curtain as 100 males from another country pass by and it's gonna go down well " ? The company is lying for sure.

Originally posted by: WormikaGrubby

I agree ,they do follow it better than us at times.

Regarding sects, no , the average French person is highly unlikely to know or care about the differences and similarities. The ones who follow or are familiar with Hinduism are a minority. So the rest are just gonna see this as an outrageous act of disrespect by Hindus from India. It would be promptly used by the anti immigration/far right crowd to whip up prejudice. And when the PM himself has introduced this cult to the French as ambassadors of Hinduism , the sect thing doesn't matter. An unconditional apology from the Indian govt is very much needed . But what do we expect from a govt that excluded the president of the country ,who happens to be both female and Dalit ,from the inaugural ceremony at the new Parliament .

And the company should apologise to the female employees for entertaining this wretched request.

Baps is neither 1st nor the last Hindu organisation in France. Before them Tamil Shivites, Shaktiets, Ganesh, Murugan followers, Iskon followers, Ramkrishna Vivekanand organisations were already present in France including some meditation groups like Art of living, Ram Chandra, Cinmoy organisations etc are already known to French people.

Regarding unconditional apology from Indian govt, is not going to happen. External Affairs ministry has said, it's between ET authorities & BAPS.

Originally posted by: Viswasruti

There are serious questions surrounding BAPS's record of labour practices and its treatment of workers. The recent France 24 report on a former BAPS temple worker in the United States....who regained his freedom from this BAPS group's illtreatment but continues to seek justice, adds another important dimension to the discussion.

How a former BAPS temple worker in the US got his freedom, but still seeks justice--

https://www.france24.com/en/americas/20260910-how-a-former-baps-temple-worker-in-the-us-got-his-freedom-but-still-seeks-justice

Wow ,this keeps getting worse. It was probably a coincidence that the artisans turned out to be Dalit ,because caste and occupation do overlap a lot in rural areas and may not a case of them deliberately recruiting Dalits . But going by their gimmick from the sixties with the temple entry thing , and these questionable ' beliefs ' I'm pretty sure the worker is telling the truth about being told where his place is in the hierarchy. So they hired a bunch of poor people to construct their beautiful temples , locked them up and gave them crap in the name of mecidine instead of giving them proper treatment. Somebody badly needs to tell these people to get the hell out of the 18th century. Would they take the same ' medicines ' if one of them were to get sick ?

It's like what Mother Teresa did. She told lepers and the other destitutes she is supposed to have cared for that suffering is great because it brings you closer to God. She gave them Bibles instead of medicines and told her side kicks in white sarees to reuse syringes. But when she got sick her ass was promptly flown to L.A for the best treatment in the world.

Then there are those Muslim preachers who tell people hospitals are evil. And sick people end up dying because they had only been fasting and chanting kalmas without any real help.

Originally posted by: mnx12

To be frank, I never felt like visiting baps temple. They have many followers with enough funds. They do genuine social work during calamities. People like it specially house holders due to their keep away from vices, bad habits like drinking, smoking policies. So money is not wasted & the family is happy.

Regarding renunciation, why is it required? One can be a house holder & persue his/ her spiritual aspirations. After renunciation s0meone has to take responsibility of your stay, food, clothes etc. For that they depend on their sanstha- baps & there is one more sect. To support them once again an institution is required, money, land etc are involved. It's like going in another version of sansaar only. They follow outdated rules.

Samee

Also in their temples they have made a human as god and his murti is bigger than actual gods.

But in this matter, a female sadhvi too has accompanied them, so making female leave makes no sense when they themselves had a female member traveling with them.

Also the fact how West never cares about India's and Hindus good deeds and it is turned into South Asia. Ab achanak se they remembered about Indians and Hindus when they got the first chance to blame that too for wrong reasons.

Originally posted by: PunnyPotato

Samee

Also in their temples they have made a human as god and his murti is bigger than actual gods.

But in this matter, a female sadhvi too has accompanied them, so making female leave makes no sense when they themselves had a female member traveling with them.

Also the fact how West never cares about India's and Hindus good deeds and it is turned into South Asia. Ab achanak se they remembered about Indians and Hindus when they got the first chance to blame that too for wrong reasons.

Right now it is seeming more like the French authorities fault who made those employee changes.... But, i don't understand why would they do that unless specifically asked for it? Would they make those changes without being asked for? Aisa kya bhoot chadha unko Jo achanak se ye karne ki soojhi, bina kisi ke request kiye hue? 🤔

Something is not adding up...

Time will tell.

Originally posted by: NathuPaapi

Right now it is seeming more like the French authorities fault who made those employee changes.... But, i don't understand why would they do that unless specifically asked for it? Would they make those changes without being asked for? Aisa kya bhoot chadha unko Jo achanak se ye karne ki soojhi, bina kisi ke request kiye hue? 🤔

Something is not adding up...

Time will tell.

Most probably they had miscommunication; yaha ke log ne kuch bola hoga, unhone kuch aur samjha. More than that aise requests entertain he kyun ho rahe hain?

Originally posted by: PunnyPotato

Most probably they had miscommunication; yaha ke log ne kuch bola hoga, unhone kuch aur samjha. More than that aise requests entertain he kyun ho rahe hain?

Yahi to mera bhi sawal hai ki aise requests entertain hi kyun ho rahe. Par request Indian side se kisi ne to ki hogi na? Aise hi thode French log apni taraf se Bina request kare ye sab karne lagenge? Agar BAPS ki team aur French team ke beech kuchh miscommunication hua hai kisi request ko leke to wo baat bhi samne aani chahiye.

Originally posted by: Viswasruti

Most of our members have rightly and collectively pointed out that, in this matter, asking women to vacate their positions merely to accommodate a religious group is not only discriminatory but also an insult to their dignity and equality.

The Eiffel Tower management should never have agreed to such a request in the first place. Asking female staff to vacate their positions to accommodate a religious group was inappropriate and discriminatory.

Hinduism is revered as a unity of diverse beliefs, traditions, and practices, beautifully represented by the timeless ideal of "Vasudhaiva Kutumbakam".... the world is one family.

No Rishi or saint, to my knowledge, ever kept women away from their ashrams or imposed restrictions simply because of their presence. If the rules of a particular sect require women to be kept away from its premises, that should certainly be respected.... yes, as long as the members of that sect themselves remain within the boundaries of their hermitages, ashrams, or akhadas. The issue arises when such sect-specific practices are expected to be imposed upon public spaces or upon others who do not follow those traditions.

Please note that I am not comparing one sect with another, nor am I judging the practices of any particular sect. I am only referring to the diversity that exists within Hindu traditions and trying to understand how different sects follow their own customs and disciplines.

For example, the Naga Sadhus have their own distinctive rules and traditions. They have renounced material possessions, including clothing, and they roam in their natural state (Nude) and traditionally carry weapons such as tridents and swords, particularly during religious occasions such as the sacred baths at the Kumbh. These practices are part of their spiritual tradition and are respected within the appropriate religious context. However, if they were to travel to a foreign country, move freely through public streets in the same manner, and justify it simply by saying, "This is our custom," it would not necessarily be accepted by the society or authorities of that country. Being a religious or cultural practice does not automatically place it above the laws and social norms of the land.

Yet, the Naga tradition is also a part of the broad Hindu religious landscape. Most Naga Sadhus belong to Shaiva traditions, and they generally live and practise within their akhadas and designated religious spaces.

Hinduism encompasses countless traditions, customs, philosophies, and cultures. They may differ greatly in their external practices, but the ultimate spiritual goal remains the same, to seek and realise God, the almighty....not to harass, humiliate, demean, or infringe upon the dignity or rights of another human being.

Our Vedic tradition also contains a rich history of recognising the intellectual and spiritual capabilities of women. Women were not inherently regarded as sinful or culpable merely because they were women, nor were they treated as obstacles in a man's spiritual life. Women such as Gargi and Maitreyi are remembered as learned seekers and participants in philosophical discourses/ discussions.

Therefore, diversity within Hinduism should be understood with respect and sensitivity. One's religious freedom deserves respect, but so does the freedom, dignity, and lawful rights of others. When we step outside our own religious spaces and enter a public place or another country, we must respect the laws, customs, and social norms of that land.

IMO religion should be considered apart from this issue. Because saying 'religion' makes it a matter of pride and pedigree. To me this incidence ultimately boils down to personal (here institutional) values and character. If there was a miscommunication it should be stated clearly , If BAPS was sexist in their approach it should be stated as such tbh they are allegedly casteist (according to allegations of underpaying Dalits) , I had a kinda 'told you so' moment when Jaggi lost his defamation case.

but if you want something like 'responsibility' when it comes to this particular incident it lies on SETE alone.

About what PM should do rn he needs to see what happened in Shantiniketan or Bihar or Assam floods. This shouldn't take over our media as distraction.

Originally posted by: Sanskruthi

IMO religion should be considered apart from this issue. Because saying 'religion' makes it a matter of pride and pedigree. To me this incidence ultimately boils down to personal (here institutional) values and character. If there was a miscommunication it should be stated clearly , If BAPS was sexist in their approach it should be stated as such tbh they are allegedly casteist (according to allegations of underpaying Dalits) , I had a kinda 'told you so' moment when Jaggi lost his defamation case.

but if you want something like 'responsibility' when it comes to this particular incident it lies on SETE alone.

About what PM should do rn he needs to see what happened in Shantiniketan or Bihar or Assam floods. This shouldn't take over our media as distraction.

The related link---

https://www.rfi.fr/en/international/20260910-eiffel-tower-row-exposes-baps-hindu-group-as-spearhead-of-modi-s-soft-power

Originally posted by: Viswasruti

Here is a SS --

The related link---

https://www.rfi.fr/en/international/20260910-eiffel-tower-row-exposes-baps-hindu-group-as-spearhead-of-modi-s-soft-power

True. That's india and Modiji for you. However since this case happens in France, I'm hoping they'll support women rights to and not this cult. Instead of finding a rational behind 'restricted contact'. Miscommunication or misogyny whatever be the case.