KJo killed off Anushka in Ae Dil Hai Mushkil for not loving Ranbir - Page 16

Originally posted by: RaniPreityAish

Don't worry, I didn't think you were blaming Alizeh. I understand what you mean now that seeing Ayan's passion for her, even if she didn't reciprocate, made her realize Ali does not feel the same way about her. I think it was a classic case where one partner loved the other more in a relationship so there was an imbalance of love. Which also explains her annoyed reaction about her husba is nd not being jealous about her friendship.

But that is sort of the sad thing no? Not feeling jealous is a secured feeling in a marriage. That is healthy behaviour; Ayaan is unhealthy and obsessive and entitled. If they had shown even one scene where Ali was gaslighting or neglectful, then it would make sense. But Ayaan's shitty behaviour making Alizeh realise anything about her marriage is just a failure. And this is us inferring from really weird, misplaced visual cues. So in a way Ayaan did manipulate her and sabotage her marriage.

Ali's actions weren't shown at all. It was Alizeh who was lost in the only scene we have of them post-marriage.

Originally posted by: Blueeeee

But that is sort of the sad thing no? Not feeling jealous is a secured feeling in a marriage. That is healthy behaviour; Ayaan is unhealthy and obsessive and entitled. If they had shown even one scene where Ali was gaslighting or neglectful, then it would make sense. But Ayaan's shitty behaviour making Alizeh realise anything about her marriage is just a failure. And this is us inferring from really weird, misplaced visual cues. So in a way Ayaan did manipulate her and sabotage her marriage.

Ali's actions weren't shown at all. It was Alizeh who was lost in the only scene we have of them post-marriage.

I don't think it's always as simple as not feeling jealous because it's a very human emotion and not something you can turn off with a click of a button. A complete lack of jealousy can sometimes be as troubling, if not more, as was Alizeh's reaction because it means the other person has checked out of a relationship entirely and does not care. But like most things, jealousy should be in moderation so obviously extreme jealousy is incredibly unhealthy and even dangerous. Ali not feeling jealous at all is a red flag, especially based on his past behavior, but Ayan's extreme jealousy that makes him act out and get physical is horrible as well so we see both extreme sides. I think a little jealousy can be good in a relationship but neither character displayed that. Saba did and she knew that was the moment she needed to check out of the relationship so she handled her jealousy the proper way.

I agree though that one of the problems is we only hear about Ali cheating but we never see his neglectful behavior. So I don't know if it was a lack of interest to develop him more since he was just an obstacle for script purposes or if Karan didn't want to portray Fawad in a negative light. Either way, it feels incomplete and extremely lacking which is why most people had problems with the story.

Originally posted by: RaniPreityAish

I don't think it's always as simple as not feeling jealous because it's a very human emotion and not something you can turn off with a click of a button. A complete lack of jealousy can sometimes be as troubling, if not more, as was Alizeh's reaction because it means the other person has checked out of a relationship entirely and does not care. But like most things, jealousy should be in moderation so obviously extreme jealousy is incredibly unhealthy and even dangerous. Ali not feeling jealous at all is a red flag, especially based on his past behavior, but Ayan's extreme jealousy that makes him act out and get physical is horrible as well so we see both extreme sides. I think a little jealousy can be good in a relationship but neither character displayed that. Saba did and she knew that was the moment she needed to check out of the relationship so she handled her jealousy the proper way.

I agree though that one of the problems is we only hear about Ali cheating but we never see his neglectful behavior. So I don't know if it was a lack of interest to develop him more since he was just an obstacle for script purposes or if Karan didn't want to portray Fawad in a negative light. Either way, it feels incomplete and extremely lacking which is why most people had problems with the story.

Expecting people to feel jealous about a random friendship to prove their love is a very stupid litmus test tho. He didn't feel jealous. So what? Why should anybody anyone feel jealous of their partner's platonic friendships? Does one expect a partner to not have any equations of their own. That is incredibly unhealthy. Ali checking out of the marriage wasn't shown. It is an inference the audience makes because he had a mobile job and had cheated when he was a teenager/ya.

Toh yaar phir toh actors wagerah shaadi hi nahi kar payenge because poora hi time jealous rehne mein guzrega.

Originally posted by: Blueeeee

Expecting people to feel jealous about a random friendship to prove their love is a very stupid litmus test tho. He didn't feel jealous. So what? Why should anybody anyone feel jealous of their partner's platonic friendships? Does one expect a partner to not have any equations of their own. That is incredibly unhealthy. Ali checking out of the marriage wasn't shown. It is an inference the audience makes because he had a mobile job and had cheated when he was a teenager/ya.

Toh yaar phir toh actors wagerah shaadi hi nahi kar payenge because poora hi time jealous rehne mein guzrega.

It wasn't a random friendship though. I don't remember how much time they spent together before her marriage but they were very close friends for a while and she considered him her most important relationship. That's a very significant relationship especially since we never see Alizeh have any family around her so Ayan is basically her family. For Ali, as an outsider, to never question that relationship and what it meant to both of them indicates a complete disinterest in his wife's life. Ali checking out of the marriage isn't shown but if he's saying that their marriage ended because Ayan's love became greater than Ali's love for Alizeh, that implies that she felt unfulfilled and wanted more from Ali. Also didn't you say he cheated on her when they were in college? That makes him older than a teenager, he wasn't a high schooler or middle schooler. He was legally a grown adult and frankly if someone is cheating before marriage, 9/10 times it is unlikely they will suddenly reform after marriage.

Originally posted by: RaniPreityAish

It wasn't a random friendship though. I don't remember how much time they spent together before her marriage but they were very close friends for a while and she considered him her most important relationship. That's a very significant relationship especially since we never see Alizeh have any family around her so Ayan is basically her family. For Ali, as an outsider, to never question that relationship and what it meant to both of them indicates a complete disinterest in his wife's life. Ali checking out of the marriage isn't shown but if he's saying that their marriage ended because Ayan's love became greater than Ali's love for Alizeh, that implies that she felt unfulfilled and wanted more from Ali. Also didn't you say he cheated on her when they were in college? That makes him older than a teenager, he wasn't a high schooler or middle schooler. He was legally a grown adult and frankly if someone is cheating before marriage, 9/10 times it is unlikely they will suddenly reform after marriage.

And so what? If Ayaan was so important to Alizeh that he was basically family toh would a good partner be even slightly jealous of his wife's familial support? It is incredibly sexist to expect partners be jealous of their partners' opposite sex platonic relations

Would it be cute if Ayaan were a woman and Ali was jealous of their friendship? That'd be a read flag, no?

And legally adult or not, an 18 y/o is not the same thing as a 28 y/o.

If Ali hadn't changed, even that wasn't shown. Ayaan's manipulation was shown. One single scene could have fixed this narrative flaw

Originally posted by: Blueeeee

And so what? If Ayaan was so important to Alizeh that he was basically family toh would a good partner be even slightly jealous of his wife's familial support? It is incredibly sexist to expect partners be jealous of their partners' opposite sex platonic relations

Would it be cute if Ayaan were a woman and Ali was jealous of their friendship? That'd be a read flag, no?

And legally adult or not, an 18 y/o is not the same thing as a 28 y/o.

If Ali hadn't changed, even that wasn't shown. Ayaan's manipulation was shown. One single scene could have fixed this narrative flaw

She considers him family but he considers her something else entirely which goes to the clip I posted a few pages back where she's explaining that for her, the love she has for him is more important than romantic love but he can't accept that. Obviously this relationship has red flags so a normal husband would detect that but Ali has no qualms. And you don't think Alizeh would be upset if Ali had a female friend he was that close to who he said he loves more than his wife or values more than his wife? Who he shares everything with and who happens to be in love with him? Reverse the situation and tell me if that relationship would be considered healthy for Ali and the genderbent Ayan.

If Ayan was a straight woman with no romantic attachments, that's one thing but if Ayan is a lesbian/bisexual woman in love with Alizeh, then we have the same situation.

A 28 year old is also not the same as a 38 year old which is not the same as a 48 year old. People are at different stages of life at each of those phases.

Originally posted by: RaniPreityAish

She considers him family but he considers her something else entirely which goes to the clip I posted a few pages back where she's explaining that for her, the love she has for him is more important than romantic love but he can't accept that. Obviously this relationship has red flags so a normal husband would detect that but Ali has no qualms. And you don't think Alizeh would be upset if Ali had a female friend he was that close to who he said he loves more than his wife or values more than his wife? Who he shares everything with and who happens to be in love with him? Reverse the situation and tell me if that relationship would be considered healthy for Ali and the genderbent Ayan.

If Ayan was a straight woman with no romantic attachments, that's one thing but if Ayan is a lesbian/bisexual woman in love with Alizeh, then we have the same situation.

A 28 year old is also not the same as a 38 year old which is not the same as a 48 year old. People are at different stages of life at each of those phases.

Alizeh did not inform her fiance that he[r so-called best friend-cum-family tried to accost her on her wedding day. It tells more about Alizeh's inability to read red flags than Ali's disinterest in the relationship.

Then the best friend moves out of the country and they meet after a few years very briefly. In all this while, how waa he to gauge that this dude was supposedly in love with his wife?

And even if so, he trusted his wife to not cheat on him so why would Ayaan be a factor to him?

Saba broke up with him not because she got jealous of Alizeh but because she realised Ayaan was into Alizeh. Alizeh was never even an iota into Ayaan so why would Ali be jealous of their friendship?

Hey babe, do you remember my friend who danced on our Mehendi with you; I had a dinner with him and super hot miss world gf. Are you jealous of our friendship? No...? You don't love me, let's get divorced

Originally posted by: Blueeeee

Alizeh did not inform her fiance that he[r so-called best friend-cum-family tried to accost her on her wedding day. It tells more about Alizeh's inability to read red flags than Ali's disinterest in the relationship.

Then the best friend moves out of the country and they meet after a few years very briefly. In all this while, how waa he to gauge that this dude was supposedly in love with his wife?

And even if so, he trusted his wife to not cheat on him so why would Ayaan be a factor to him?

Saba broke up with him not because she got jealous of Alizeh but because she realised Ayaan was into Alizeh. Alizeh was never even an iota into Ayaan so why would Ali be jealous of their friendship?

Hey babe, do you remember my friend who danced on our Mehendi with you; I had a dinner with him and super hot miss world gf. Are you jealous of our friendship? No...? You don't love me, let's get divorced

Perhaps she did not feel safe sharing this information with him. Based on how they had just gotten back together and his own history, he may feel she is trying to make him jealous or trying to do to him what he did to her.

He clearly knew by the end of the movie, based on your own words, that Ayan loved Alizeh so much so obviously he does figure it out. But clearly too late.

Was it trust or a lack of interest though? And there are many cheaters who know they can cheat as much as they want and the other will never leave them so they don't have to be held accountable for their behavior. He had already seen that he could cheat on her and she'd be angry and break up with him but eventually come back to him. I rewatched the scene where he tells Ayan that Alizeh has left him and he seems almost just as shocked as Ayan that it came to that point where she could finally leave him.

Saba knew Ayan was never going to care for her the way she cared for him. Alizeh learned this same lesson about Ali. The issue was not Ayan but the fact that Ali did not love her as much as she loved him, which is why she's done with romantic love because it has drained her of everything. And according to Kjo, it literally causes her cancer.

Originally posted by: RaniPreityAish

....

I agree though that one of the problems is we only hear about Ali cheating but we never see his neglectful behavior. So I don't know if it was a lack of interest to develop him more since he was just an obstacle for script purposes or if Karan didn't want to portray Fawad in a negative light. Either way, it feels incomplete and extremely lacking which is why most people had problems with the story.

Such interesting reads here about a movie KJo made because of his own messed love life and his insecurities since childhood.

I supposed that his crush on Fawad would bring him to showcase the insecurities about fidelity that predominently exist in a homosexual relationship - much more than in heterosexual ones. But then, he deliberately chopped scenes with Fawad to appease the Censerboard because of the ban. Karan isn't - imo - a courageous man in real life.

The "unrequited" love theme became - in my feeling - a glorifying of his own unfulfilled love and - of course - Anushka's character has to die as his love-interest in real life did (eventually) reject Karan's kind of love.

What SRK did, had been something very interesting: he turned something meant as negatively expressed in the movie into something that one could also regard as something positive for oneself...no one can touch at the purety of your love for someone as it is up to you to decide about the nature of your love.

I really, really wonder, if Karan just said to ShahRukh: "could you do a small appearance in the movie and tell your thoughts about unrequited love?"

If you look at Karan's first 5 movies (all done with SRK), he showcased another view on love and relationships...

So, what happened with Karan after 2010??? It was the time when he got involved with Sidharth and Alia, preparing to launch Varun and them in SOTY. He had - after allusions in previous movies - made an openly gay character he wanted SRK to play (quite insensitive, imo, as SRK got Mannat wall graffitis and gossipy inunedos of being gay/bisexual since years). Interestingly, Karan starts the movie with the gay character (former Dean of the college) on the death bed...

Addition: After ADHM, Karan published his book (Jan 2017)...but somehow, I get the feeling that it didn't help as a therapy...neither the movie nor the book...