Kerala story - Page 5

Originally posted by: carisma2

You do understand that Religious laws are different to Democratic ones?

It is not about law. Religious Rules are different from ordinary law. Muslim men can marry women of certain faiths and I mentioned those already.

If you are looking to reform things written in our scriptures- then I have a question for you... when will you start eating beef?

Funny how people want to change things written in our scriptures.. how about leading the way and changing them in yours first.

The whole idea of belief is that you believe in the religion with everything it comes with.

Law is not a belief... law can be reformed.. not Religious rules.

There's a difference.

I mean if people don't like our religion it doesn't matter - be happy with yours. Do not expect us to change ours. And let's get real.. life is not fair so if people feel hurt by certain things then it is what it is. I know hindu communities are very much set on same caste marriages and that is not even a holy requirement. So maybe for the concern of people that anyone has.. start changing that - starting in your own home religion first. That's my advise.

Here this topic talks about love jihad with forced conversion done with intent.

Normally when two people genuinely fall in love the other person will convert or they won't. Sometimes they end up as SRK which is not really allowed or they go the Aamna Sharif way and the Muslim converts to a different religion. It's rare but it happens.

Ur statement answers that..it isn't a holy requirement. Intercaste or any kind of inter so and so mrgs are not forbidden in any scriptures or books

Originally posted by: Kyahikahoon

Ur statement answers that..it isn't a holy requirement. Intercaste or any kind of inter so and so mrgs are not forbidden in any scriptures or books

No U didn't understand that right.

Islamicaly the marriage would be invalid.

Originally posted by: carisma2

No U didn't understand that right.

Islamicaly the marriage would be invalid.

M not talking about Islam.

M saying it isn't invalid or prohibited according to Hindu religion.

Also.. replying to ur other post somewhere..even in India a marriage has to be registered in civil court. And we also have a special mrg act under which people of different religions can marry even if it isn't allowed as per their faith

"

To the blocked and ignored nuisance. I would be grateful if I was from Pakistan, India and Africa, it would be an honour. But you live in the swamp somewhere, hence ur uncivilised manners.

However, I am all the more grateful that I live in UK. And I am a proud British Citizen. I love my country, I adhere to it's rules and the only negative thing I can say is, I don't like the current Prime Minister much.

This is a country which gives us the right to freedom of religion and belief as one of the rights protected by the Human Rights Act.

Birdie,

I can understand the lack of education of the person I referred to above but I'm disappointed in the argument you are drawing. It knocked common sense out cold.

Religions have contributed many ideas to democratic thinking and standards, as well as human values relating to solidarity, human dignity and the behaviour of the individual in society.

The Democratic society needs the fundamental.consensus about the necessary values of humans life.

Equality and Diversity is a huge point in the society where I live. Therefore

The Equality Act 2010 makes it unlawful to discriminate against someone because of religion or belief, or because of a lack a religion or belief.

As per the law of this country, the English Law, there is no restriction on a marriage between a Hindu and Muslim person. No bill was ever put in the parliament to reform marriage conditions for the Muslims regarding conversions to get married legally as per Democratic law. There is no punishable breach as per the countries law.

The Democratic law applies to all races.

So the rule is a religious one, it invalidates the marriage.

In this country Nikha and Indian Vivah ceremonies are marriages conducted under religious rights. The Country requires a Civil marriage also to recognise it as a legal marriage under the law.

So the Religious beliefs and it's rights are protected and it's coincides with Democratic law.

The Mullahs didn't make up laws. It is the Arabic countries which follow certain guidelines by precedents in a way. Quran is a book of guidance, an encyclopedia of knowledge and an account of the journey of Islam. It is not something you will understand as it is not as straightforward and a book of Mythical stories and events. However, Hindus also seek guidance from the Geeta. It is not straightforward because the way it was written during the 14 years of it's revelation and not something afterwards.

Religion is a belief, you need to stop mixing it up with law. And no it's not a law handbook which will update as law reforms. It is not a medical bnf that will update with new drug inventions. It will not be changed. The past 3 previous books had been and therefore new religions developed. This one will stay like this till the end of time. "

...

Dear carishma, i can understand why you would hide or completely disassociate from your pakistani roots/origins...have seen plenty of pakistanis do ot on daily basis. Some even pretend to be indians, hindus and some even as bhagwad geeta followers...

@bold

What islam and quran's contribution to democratic societies and and human values relating to solidarity, human dignity and behaviour of individuals in a society is for all to see the way you have been behaving with me on this n other threads. Live example

I am thankful we are debating virtually warna the hate you have been spewing for me personally just because i am questioning quran , i can only imagine what would become of me if we were face to face. Only kanhailal comes to my mind.

Anyhow, what does islam/quran have anything to do with british laws or any democratic societies for that matter?

You are enjoying equality rights and all the perks of democracy living in UK where ISLAM IS NOT A STATE RELIGION and it isnt governed by any islamic laws so why are you crediting british way of life to quran. They dont follow quran. Where is the logic in defending quran by bringing british laws in here?

Why not talk how much equality women and minorites have in any country governed by quranic laws??

So what's the connection of last two paragraphs with all that equality and democratic jazz???

We all get that UK being a liberal and democratic coutry gives everyone equal rights n you can marry whoever you want but how is it relevant here wrt quran n islamic preaching you have been propagating here?

Your proud talks about briton's democratic values n reluctance to talk about same values not being applicable in any of the islamic countries proves how much of contribution quran has made to better human lives and in which places.

Originally posted by: BirdieNumNum

carisma2=>

this entire discussion on Islam/ religion got launched after you brought it up in reply to my idea of having a cooling-off period. My proposal had no mention of any religion, just that it should apply to everyone. You brought up nikah objections from Islam to counter that. In fact, as far as the rest of the world is concerned, most of us would prefer that we never had to deal with Islam or have it come up for discussion. Unfortunately it does, because its adherents seem to go off the deep end reading it. You can claim all you want, but the proof is in the pudding. Look at the level of violence and mayhem committed by adherents of Islam all over the world. Yes, people from other denominations are not saints either, but it's relative.

your snide remarks on Hinduism don't bother me. I just happen to like it because it is most consistent with the physics/ cosmology that is being unravelled even today, and has enough substance and tolerance built in to accommodate diverse points of view. It sure as heck does not have cuckoo stuff like the sun revolving around the earth or the earth being flat, embarrassments of the highest order.

as for my remark about bombing places, your bringing it up here had no relevance. But since you did, you have conveniently skipped the part where I justified american nuking of japanese cities too. It wasnt just iran. That way, I am an equal opportunity advocate of tough actions against rogue/ terrorist nations. Nothing against any religion, unlike what you were saying.

and as for rambling, i am not the one writing essays.

She brought up quran way before to justify palestanians massacre of jews sayimg allah promised palestine to muslims in quran.

I told her then n there not to indulge in such talks or else there is no going back

She also posted that infamous verse from quran "slay the kaffirs" and justified it and now she is accusing us of misinterpretation

She says our prophets

As far as i know muslims have only one. They dont believe in what others preached and kills those who who followes them be it jews or christians but here they are all one because they think they share same god?

So why then the same god sent three diffrent guys to preach religion differently? Whose mistake is it. The god's or prophet's

If the last prophet says god has made mistakes twice before and i am here to correct all the previous mistakes, how to believe him?

Why would god send a different guy everytime to discredit the previous ones? There is a lot of confusion going on there

And btw what kind of messages they pass on here?

For women...hide under burkha, please your man certain way, produce dozens of children, accept polygamy, triple talaq, halala, fgm etc

Punishment for not follkwing is toh tauba tauba...

Stone pelting, beheading, public hanging

Do this dont do that

Why so many rules n regulations?

Did he create such beautiful world with the purpose of restricting us humans from appreciating all his work n to only keep worshiping him 5 times a day n in certain manner only???

Why would the god who has created this vast universe and multiple of them be so interested in daily lives of puny humans? We are inconsequential in greater scheme of things. No?

He doesnt even like to share space with other gods. I find him to be insecure n also narcissist for meddling in our lives in this manner. I would disown any god who puts so many restrictions on me the moment he opens his mouth. Not worth it. You get to live this life only once. Enjoy as much as you can without anyone bossing you over 24/7.

God shouldnt be vindictive or threatening humans who dont believe in him. Anyone punishing people for not believing in him, is a false god to me.

Karma is what peolle should actually be scared of.

Originally posted by: Funtuss

She brought up quran way before to justify palestanians massacre of jews sayimg allah promised palestine to muslims in quran.

I told her then n there not to indulge in such talks or else there is no going back

She also posted that infamous verse from quran "slay the kaffirs" and justified it and now she is accusing us of misinterpretation

She says our prophets

As far as i know muslims have only one. They dont believe in what others preached and kills those who who followes them be it jews or christians but here they are all one because they think they share same god?

So why then the same god sent three diffrent guys to preach religion differently? Whose mistake is it. The god's or prophet's

If the last prophet says god has made mistakes twice before and i am here to correct all the previous mistakes, how to believe him?

Why would god send a different guy everytime to discredit the previous ones? There is a lot of confusion going on there

And btw what kind of messages they pass on here?

For women...hide under burkha, please your man certain way, produce dozens of children, accept polygamy, triple talaq, halala, fgm etc

Punishment for not follkwing is toh tauba tauba...

Stone pelting, beheading, public hanging

Do this dont do that

Why so many rules n regulations?

Did he create such beautiful world with the purpose of restricting us humans from appreciating all his work n to only keep worshiping him 5 times a day n in certain manner only???

Why would the god who has created this vast universe and multiple of them be so interested in daily lives of puny humans? We are inconsequential in greater scheme of things. No?

He doesnt even like to share space with other gods. I find him to be insecure n also narcissist for meddling in our lives in this manner. I would disown any god who puts so many restrictions on me the moment he opens his mouth. Not worth it. You get to live this life only once. Enjoy as much as you can without anyone bossing you over 24/7.

God shouldnt be vindictive or threatening humans who dont believe in him. Anyone punishing people for not believing in him, is a false god to me.

Karma is what peolle should actually be scared of.

great questions!!!

Originally posted by: Funtuss

She brought up quran way before to justify palestanians massacre of jews sayimg allah promised palestine to muslims in quran.

I told her then n there not to indulge in such talks or else there is no going back

She also posted that infamous verse from quran "slay the kaffirs" and justified it and now she is accusing us of misinterpretation

She says our prophets

As far as i know muslims have only one. They dont believe in what others preached and kills those who who followes them be it jews or christians but here they are all one because they think they share same god?

So why then the same god sent three diffrent guys to preach religion differently? Whose mistake is it. The god's or prophet's

If the last prophet says god has made mistakes twice before and i am here to correct all the previous mistakes, how to believe him?

Why would god send a different guy everytime to discredit the previous ones? There is a lot of confusion going on there

And btw what kind of messages they pass on here?

For women...hide under burkha, please your man certain way, produce dozens of children, accept polygamy, triple talaq, halala, fgm etc

Punishment for not follkwing is toh tauba tauba...

Stone pelting, beheading, public hanging

Do this dont do that

Why so many rules n regulations?

Did he create such beautiful world with the purpose of restricting us humans from appreciating all his work n to only keep worshiping him 5 times a day n in certain manner only???

Why would the god who has created this vast universe and multiple of them be so interested in daily lives of puny humans? We are inconsequential in greater scheme of things. No?

He doesnt even like to share space with other gods. I find him to be insecure n also narcissist for meddling in our lives in this manner. I would disown any god who puts so many restrictions on me the moment he opens his mouth. Not worth it. You get to live this life only once. Enjoy as much as you can without anyone bossing you over 24/7.

God shouldnt be vindictive or threatening humans who dont believe in him. Anyone punishing people for not believing in him, is a false god to me.

Karma is what peolle should actually be scared of.

i think muslims would say they have had several prophets, starting with Adam and ending with Muhammad. The list includes Yahya (John the Baptist) and Jesus! Christians view Jesus as a Son of God, Muslims as a prophet... and they quote the same Bible to make their different points. Starting from the same source, they reach conclusions diametrically opposed to each other. Clearly, it's all subject to interpretation and belies the claim that the texts are easily understood. Nothing could be further from the truth. We would not have had all those wars and crusades if folks interpreted the texts the same way, and they were in agreement. Heck, the muslims could not even agree on the succession line after Muhammad, which is how we got the sunnis and the shiites. Yet we are being told here that the texts are clear. How come most muslims believe the prophet did not specify a clear line of succession- how did the all knowing miss that basic thing?

anyway, you raise very important questions. I have always felt the same way on my own, independently.

Originally posted by: Kyahikahoon

M not talking about Islam.

M saying it isn't invalid or prohibited according to Hindu religion.

Also.. replying to ur other post somewhere..even in India a marriage has to be registered in civil court. And we also have a special mrg act under which people of different religions can marry even if it isn't allowed as per their faith

Right. I didn't know that India also has a civil marriage registry system. Yes so it works on the similar basis as here.

Originally posted by: BirdieNumNum

i think muslims would say they have had several prophets, starting with Adam and ending with Muhammad. The list includes Yahya (John the Baptist) and Jesus! Christians view Jesus as a Son of God, Muslims as a prophet... and they quote the same Bible to make their different points. Starting from the same source, they reach conclusions diametrically opposed to each other. Clearly, it's all subject to interpretation and belies the claim that the texts are easily understood. Nothing could be further from the truth. We would not have had all those wars and crusades if folks interpreted the texts the same way, and they were in agreement. Heck, the muslims could not even agree on the succession line after Muhammad, which is how we got the sunnis and the shiites. Yet we are being told here that the texts are clear. How come most muslims believe the prophet did not specify a clear line of succession- how did the all knowing miss that basic thing?

anyway, you raise very important questions. I have always felt the same way on my own, independently.

@bold ...Thanks..n likewise.

Yes i do have a lot of questions strictly from what i hear from muslims themselves n i dont get the logic behind their claims.

So far i havent made any efforts to learn about other religions. But i am curious about a lot of things and i love probing them here further based on their resonses.

I want to learn the logic why they believe in what they believe in so strongly and i seriously try hard.

Because I seriously don't think any literate and educated person in their right mind would belive a single magical figure from some thousands years ago is responsible for the entire creation the way it is described in bible or quran.

If "HE" (since it cant be a female god)had such amazing technology till so not long ago, where did it all go? N why did his chosen one have to use donkey to visit him in heaven?? And also why did muslims have to use camels for transportation for the most part of their lives ?

I am sorry for asking so many questions questions but these are all valid ones...

Dont you think?

Originally posted by: Funtuss

@bold ...Thanks..n likewise.

Yes i do have a lot of questions strictly from what i hear from muslims themselves n i dont get the logic behind their claims.

So far i havent made any efforts to learn about other religions. But i am curious about a lot of things and i love probing them here further based on their resonses.

I want to learn the logic why they believe in what they believe in so strongly and i seriously try hard.

Because I seriously don't think any literate and educated person in their right mind would belive a single magical figure from some thousands years ago is responsible for the entire creation the way it is described in bible or quran.

If "HE" (since it cant be a female god)had such amazing technology till so not long ago, where did it all go? N why did his chosen one have to use donkey to visit him in heaven?? And also why did muslims have to use camels for transportation for the most part of their lives ?

I am sorry for asking so many questios questions but these are all valid ones...

Dont you think?

i think the pro-forma response we'll get to these questions is along following lines-

1. people are misunderstanding text which is very clear and unambiguous;

2. it's all very peaceful, never mind all the guys who go berserk on a frequent basis reading the text;

3. a bunch of circular reasoning, about how the quran is the word of God, because we have Muhammad's word it's so.

there's more, but those 3 above are standard.