those thorny questions -- infertility & society

so I haven't watched today's episode (just read the recap and it was bad enough). now, before we go hating narmada, I wanted to address the topic in a different way. few months back, I was watching one old episode of "neeya naana" on hotstar and it totally made me cry. it was such an interesting episode on the flip side that we don't hear -- the view of men facing infertility.

so for those not sure what program I am referring, it is talk show on vijay tv (tamil channel under the star umbrella). (E192 ; aired 21 May 2021). the moderator, gopinath, is someone very popular and well-known. the show builds on the traditional "patimandram" debate style. so you have two sides of folks and each side will speak 'for' or 'against' on a theme. it can be hilarious as well as serious depending on the topic and theme. you have a moderator in the middle who basically poses the questions and guides the conversations and the back and forth. then at the end, the best speakers on both sides get prizes which are from the sponsors.

so the question for this episode was about inferitlity -- "don't ask my wife questions, ask me!" while the other side was "why can't we ask questions? we only do so out of concern". for those who do not know tamil and won't be able to watch the episode, here are the highlights from the programme:

men:

-- they always ask the women but do they know the flip side? how many know about what is sperm count, mobility rate? they would never ask such Qs. but why do they ask women such pointed questions? it is degrading.

-- "do yoga / go to temple at such a time / eat certain food / go on trips to de-stress" -- when we cannot afford, it is frustrating to hear such 'tips'

-- after 10 years, we had a child. during year 3, my grandmother said I should get re-married. (guy is getting emotional) my wife does not have parents and I married her as I liked her. I told my grandmother not to talk again about such matters.

-- I am working and go in and out of the house. the only time my wife comes out is for these functions and when they ask such questions, it hurts. who is going to be happy if we have a child, is it not us? only if we have money, then we can take treatment. so such questions hurts us more. they are saying that if I give 2 lakhs for treatment, they will get me a child but where will I go for such money?

-- we accept your concern but fertility treatment costs 2.5 lakhs and there is only 40% chance. if someone tries IVF, it takes 6-7 months for a woman's body to come back to normal. minimum, IVF treatment costs about 5 lakhs average. yes, as a relative, you can ask question but stand in our shoes. then you will know the pain. it is easy to ask questions but difficult to answer. there is emotional stress, physical stress and financial stress.

-- find me a doctor who has a 100% success rate! none. let us be and let us live our lives.

Q. why are such questions posed only to the women?

(other side lady answers): only ladies can ask ladies. we can't ask such direct questions to the men.

(men): why can't you ask such questions to your son if you are close?

(other side lady): but when he is going to the office, it will affect his work?

(men): so is it okay if your daughter-in-law is hurt? if you had a daughter facing such a situation, then you will understand the pain.

Q. why do you want people to ask you and not your wife?

-- after every event and such questions, it takes her 2, 3 days to get out of that emotional pain; it is very difficult to watch

-- my wife is not the only problem, am also a problem. so ask me.

-- you ask a girl "why she doesn't have a child?" we don't have an answer for that. even if you have two healthy individuals, you can't tell when a baby will be born. what will she say when there is no answer?

-- now my wife avoids all family functions because of such questions. why is it a problem if we live childless?

-- infertility is not a one-sided issue. both husband and wife have a role in it. so why do they only ask questions to my wife in front of 100 people and stamp her? whereas, we men don't have to face such situations.

-- every month we face the pain. if she is late, we are not sure what to think and what to feel.

Q. why are such questions only posed to women? (the other side)

(the other side) how many men tell this explicitly that they have the issue. do they tell their moms not to disturb the wife?

(men) I have shared this privately within my family. but men can't tell this explicitly to society because they will look down on him.

(moderator) -- the whole idea of "manhood"...

Q. what are the pain that men face?

-- friends/colleagues keep going through stages in life (admissions, birthdays, weddings etc). whereas, we are not going through these phases. when friends say "oh you don't have to pay for college? you are lucky", that hurts

-- while having liqour, friends say things or ask stuff. it hurt that I don't have the words. you can't sleep the whole night. after that, I don't meet my friends for drinks.... even murderers and scoundrels have children but I don't have any bad habits and there is nothing wrong with me but I don't have children. it is hard to understand.

-- when I hear of news about children being abandoned in the dustbin, it hurts. I know I will be a good father and my wife will be an excellent mother.

Q. what do you want to tell society.

-- we have gone to all the temples. there is nothing else left to do.

-- don't make money out of my pain and make my pain worse.

-- we have hope that we can have kids but don't destroy the small hope that we have with your thoughts and questions.

yea I cried again while watching the episode to recap the highlights. happy ending was all those well-intentioned people say they will never ever ask such a question to a relative again.

what struck me in relation to imlie is this -- while we can say all sorts of things about the episode and the arc and how it is handled, these things happen because of such well-intentioned questions. that is the starting point. these questions asked out of concern by relatives set off sparks of madness as well as pain. as one man noted in the episode, there is emotional, physical as well as financial stress. so when people cannot afford and they are desperate, they are vulnerable to quacks.

so let us be sensitive in family functions and not ask "so any good news?". when we meet people in office, why do we ask all their personal mundane details? leave it up to them if they want to share or don't share. give them space and time to open up to you as a new coworker. unless we as a society accept that infertility is a couple issue and that it causes pain to the couple most of all, those well-intentioned questions can set people off on funny paths. let us recognize that it is not only women who suffer but also men but their stories are not heard often. at the very least, we don't need to be nosy.

I don't believe that these questions are "well intentioned questions from people who care about your happiness" in most cases.

Or at least not in my circles.

Here, such questions are made in family functions in order to compare and contrast your achievements (yes achievements) compared to that intelligent cousin.

And if someone is wondering about my outburst I am 'that intelligent cousin' everyone secretly hates 💁

When coming to taunts, society never leaves any chances of raising fingers and questioning them irrespective of gender... Sad s bc of overall illustrations of men being overdominating women in all aspects..stories of true suffering men r hardly addressed...

P.S: Though My family never miss neeya naana at weekends, I watch only popular clips/trending epi... To get better understanding here Will watch this epi for sure🙂..

Thanks for tag

Originally posted by: SundariP

I don't believe that these questions are "well intentioned questions from people who care about your happiness" in most cases.

Or at least not in my circles.

Here, such questions are made in family functions in order to compare and contrast your achievements (yes achievements) compared to that intelligent cousin.

And if someone is wondering about my outburst I am 'that intelligent cousin' everyone secretly hates 💁

agree with you; in most cases, all these characters are real life aunty blue. however, there are some who genuinely think they are asking out of concern or just plain curiousity. they don't really understand the pain that it leads to. also think that it is because of such questions, we end up having situations like with narmada. they feel the pressure from others and think of dumb solutions. so the questions and bad behaviour do go hand in hand in some ways. these questions are not good. while we may not be able to change such people in society, at the very least, we can be a bit more sensitive and empathetic. thats my takeaway.

Originally posted by: Shravani95

When coming to taunts, society never leaves any chances of raising fingers and questioning them irrespective of gender... Sad s bc of overall illustrations of men being overdominating women in all aspects..stories of true suffering men r hardly addressed...

P.S: Though My family never miss neeya naana at weekends, I watch only popular clips/trending epi... To get better understanding here Will watch this epi for sure🙂..

Thanks for tag

it was a great episode and gopi did a fantastic job as moderator. he knows well how to lead the conversations and when to put a full stop. the highlights don't really convey the emotion the men had. plus it is hard to translate some of those feels into english. I thought it was very brave of all the men who took part in that episode -- they were emotionally open, honest and vulnerable. you can tell how much they loved their wives and how much it hurt not being a father. not something we see openly discussed. so yea, I thought we should see the other side as well since we hardly hear the men's point of view when it comes to infertility.

After reading through your post, I am now feeling proud that, though a bit rushed, the makers of Imlie are touching such sensitive matters in the best possible way, though it can be risky when considering the ratings, as most of the viewers can be still of the patriarchal mindset. If they are able to bring a change in atleast 1% of the viewers, their efforts will be rewarded.

Speaking of personal exp , Woman are asked this questions , cause the idea of infertility is associated with woman.

Cause men being infertile with low sperm count or mobility directly questions " their entire being of "men""

This is also same society , when a woman gives birth to a girl baby than " a boy , to carry on their line " looks down on the mother , Even tho , man's sperm is the deciding factor.

Again the questioning the sperm would be equal to questioning the existence of the said "man"

We cant have that can we ? We as a society function as He is a MAN ( medal of honour ) - irrespective of success , talent , education , height , weight , looks , race and religion.

Same irrespective of success , talent , education , height , weight , beauty , race and religion - we are merely a Woman.

Fellow tamilian who also watches neeya naana ❤️

Edited to add -

I definetly feel society is changing as people of my age are choosing not to have kids , and planning them properly. So we are heading in the right direction.

Originally posted by: Enlightened21

After reading through your post, I am now feeling proud that, though a bit rushed, the makers of Imlie are touching such sensitive matters in the best possible way, though it can be risky when considering the ratings, as most of the viewers can be still of the patriarchal mindset. If they are able to bring a change in atleast 1% of the viewers, their efforts will be rewarded.

Even i liked a lot of points they touched today, I'm only waiting for tomorrow for the full picture.

Today and tomorrow combined can be a good social message episodes if done right

Originally posted by: Enlightened21

After reading through your post, I am now feeling proud that, though a bit rushed, the makers of Imlie are touching such sensitive matters in the best possible way, though it can be risky when considering the ratings, as most of the viewers can be still of the patriarchal mindset. If they are able to bring a change in atleast 1% of the viewers, their efforts will be rewarded.

yea, it would have been even more interesting if they showed that infertility was because of aryan or a combination issue (both aryan and imlie). in some ways, it perpetuates the idea that childlessness is caused by barren women and somehow men have no problem. but yea, maybe such stories in dramas can be good to kickstart conversations and thoughts on this complex topic. what many people don't realize that is that unexplained infertility (where both partners are healthy) is on the rise. so in many ways, this is a pertinent topic as we see more and more couples struggling with this issue.