~| Whatever you want to argue about |~ - Page 111

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

Could they all be DasiPutras adopted by Draupadi??

Sums up why they were never considered for the throne

Running away

Coming to Abhimanyu obviously Vaishampayan would be more clear about the birth of Janamejay's grandfather when compared to others

Could be.

Vaishampayana would be clearer. But Prativindhya, if heir, would've been celebrated like mad. He is barely mentioned. Heck, even Panchali never mentions him. I can understand others, not her. I don't believe the upapandavas were hers. Maybe Suthanu, but I doubt even that.

Vyasa and Krishna never worked together

And Vyasa outmaneouvered Krishna through polyandry

But his nemesis proved to be Duryodhan and Dhritrashtra

Krishna outmaneouvered Vyasa through Ashwatthama

But his nemesis proved to be Samba/Balram and Kritaverma

Originally posted by: Chiillii

Vyasa and Krishna never worked together

And Vyasa outmaneouvered Krishna through polyandry

But Krishna was the final winner

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

Sorry I wrote is wrong, I meant Subhadra was pregnant when they returned to Indraprasth.

I never said she had consent, I said there are women who have no hard feelings for their husbands after marital r**e

I don't think Subhadra was actually assertive, she could have followed her heart at Swayamwar but not otherwise I am sure

@Deepika, Definitely not Duryodhan was the one in her mind, Duryodhan's image towards children could easily be understood by the fact that all of the women rejected him at Swayamwars

But would she travel for so long if she was pregnant? I mean roads weren’t there back then, traveling was tough. It is not mentioned that she was pregnant when she returned to Indraprastha

On the other hand -

From his birth onwards, Krishna performed all the auspicious rites. The child began to grow, like the moon in the bright half of the lunar month. That vanquisher of enemies learned all the vedas from Arjuna, with the four divisions and the ten branches, and the art of archery, everything known to man and god. That extremely powerful one became skilled in the science of all weapons. He learnt all the special acts of handling weapons. In acquisition, use and in circular motions, Dhananjaya was pleased that his son Soubhadra became his equal. He could bear everything from his enemies. He was blessed with all the auspicious marks. He was invincible in battle and had the shoulders of a bull. His wide mouth was like that of a serpent. The mighty archer was as proud as a lion. His valour was like that of a mad elephant. His voice was like thunderous clouds. His face was like that of the full moon. He was Krishna’s equal in

valour, energy, beauty and form. Bibhatsu24 saw in his son Maghavan25 himself.

This is from BORI CE, so Arjuna training Abhi is not an interpolation

Originally posted by: Chiillii

Involvement of Krishna

Drupad does not seem smart enough. It has to be Krishna working behind the scenes

Also the fact that none of the yadavas participated in the swayamvar.

It is my opinion that, Krishna suggested the Draupadi Arjun marriage through swayamvar, to gain Arjun as a weapon for himself.

He did not want Yudhi Drau marriage. He never wanted Yudhi to be emperor.

The many times I read the epic, the more I feel

1. Krishna was not a self sacrificing God who only came to earth for humanity's benefit.

He was an extraordinary human who was a good guy but at the same time had his own self interests.

2. He never liked Yudhishtir, he only tolerated him because he had no choice.

I cannot accept that Krishna ever wanted Yudhishtir to be emperor. Prativindhya was a nobody for him.

Empire does not end with emperor. There needs to be a chain of succession in place.

He had a much better candidate in Pradyumna whom he had groomed himself. And Aniruddha whom he had as a worthy successor to pradyumna. And after that Vajra his own grandson.

Abhimanyu like his father Arjuna was a weapon for him, to be used to get rid of enemies, not the one to rule but the one to protect as commander in chief.

Whatever social change that Krishna had in mind, he had 3 generations of capable candidates groomed by him in Pradyumna, Aniruddha and Vajra.

Arjuna as a weapon for what??

Did krishna wanted arjuna as a weapon to promote his agenda of sitting a yadava on the imperial throne right?? But why get him married to drapaudi then why not subdhara ?? Was it gain to panchal s support ?

Originally posted by: Krishnapanchali

Arjuna as a weapon for what??

Did krishna wanted arjuna as a weapon to promote his agenda of sitting a yadava on the imperial throne right?? But why get him married to drapaudi then why not subdhara ?? Was it gain to panchal s support ?

He definitely wanted both Kuru n Panchal support.

I don't find any reason on why Krishna would not want Yadavs in the imperial throne

But what is imperial throne?
I thought Yudi was emperor then I read he was not

What powers are under the emperor? Was Jarasandha an emperor?

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

He definitely wanted both Kuru n Panchal support.

I don't find any reason on why Krishna would not want Yadavs in the imperial throne

Could be. He probably helped drapaud in getting Arjuna as SIL to strengthen his relationship with both pandavas and panchala. But what after this. Did he took any step towards his goal?? Instead he was more into helping pandavas in making their kingdom independent.

But should i make another thread??

Problem with Krishna wanting Arjuna is that Arjuna couldn't be had without Yudhishtira's permission.

Even if he could, there was no using him to dethrone Jarasandha or building an empire for the Yadavas, because no empire built by Arjuna could go to Yadavas.

Arjuna was a Kuru, and any empire built by him would go to his lineage, not the Yadavas.

Panchali was meant for Yudhishtira. I agree that Krishna didn't like Yudhishtira, but the dislike was immaterial. Yudhishtira and Suyodhana were the only ones who could claim the Kuru throne. Panchal was essential because they were the only other kingdom which could also claim the right to be ruler of rulers/emperor/chief among all kings/whatever you want to call it. Hence only one of these two KURU men could marry the Panchal princess. Not Bheema, not Arjuna, and sadly, not even Krishna himself.

There is no question of Vyasa outmaneuvering Krishna here because Krishna would've known this.

Re: polyandry. It was not needed. Not politically, not personally. I believe it didn't happen. Even if someone believes it did, there was absolutely no strategic need for it. Even if it did happen, there was no outmaneuvering done because Krishna would've known it could only be Yudhishtira or Suyodhana.