~| Whatever you want to argue about |~ - Page 110

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

Jail me war hota fir

Only Karna would get Sunlight, Dury would brag about it

His kismat is such that he would have been sunburnt, Yudi would ask Arjuna to call his father with clouds 🤣

There were no plans. Only goals.

No one can have plans in politics. Like I have said before plans only happen with fixed values, like in engineering. Not with variables. Politics is a variable situation. Enemies can become best friends and then enemies again, sometimes without the knowledge of one of the parties involved.

Terms like betrayal, hypocricy, collateral damage have no relevance in politics and are replaced with words like Dharma, Greater good, sacrifice. But they mean essentially the same thing.

So uppandavas killed by yadavas is not betrayal, its dharma or karma whatever. Subhadra haran is not hypocricy but greater good and Abhimanyu the collateral damage becomes a sacrifice.

The problem is people have deified Krishna and too some extent Arjuna as his devotee. So any mention of them doing something negative to achieve their goals is met with words like impossible, cannot, etc.

Politics cannot be honest, just and fair.

So a Vyasa who thinks he can have a new era of governance through his puppet Yudhishtir, sees no harm in changing his plan of making Draupadi married to just him to a polyandry just to ensure it happens. Because he figures Yudhishtir needs his brothers by his side.

And I strictly feel the goal of Vyasa was Yudhishtir as emperor and Draupadi as his wife. He however did not plan this with Krishna or Drupad.

Drupad's goal was getting uttar panchal back, killing Drona and an alliance with Kurus all through Arjun Draupadi marriage.

The announcement at Draupadi's yagya was as fake as the yagya itself, just like the akashwani about Devaki's son killing Kansa.

He wanted only Dhrishtadyumn and got him. But he saw Draupadi as a bonus to help Dhrishtadyumn by removing Arjun from the possible conflict.

Just like propaganda that Drisht had divine sanction to kill drona. Drau had a divine sanction to be cause of death of evil kshatriya (But through Arjun). Drupad had faced pandaavs in battle, he did not consider Yudhishtir at all. He had only Arjun in his mind.

It is when the Draupadi swayamvar anmouncement happens that Vyasa and Drupad goals clash.

And Vyasa smartly sees an opportunity. Where he can get all 5 brothers tied to each other forever and suggests polyandry to Pandavas. He sees Polyandry as a much better option than just Yudhi Drau marriage. Which could still have happened, because though not the option that Drupad wanted it was still not a bad option

But he does not discuss this with Drupad in advance, because the epic is clear on the surprise of Drupad and Dhristadyumn. This is discussed with Drupad after the swayamvar, when Drupad doesnt have much choice but to agree.

Again, this is becoming too long. So Krishna part I shall explain in the next post

Originally posted by: NoraSM

It is rape if there was no consent, if there’s no consent means there are wrong feelings. Is there anything to suggest that Arjuna forced himself on her?

Please read Subhadraharan part, It wasn’t a planned as abduction, Arjuna drove towards IP (he couldn’t go back before ending his exile), Krishna pacified Balaram and sent them after Arjuna, They brought Arjuna and Subhadra back home and they were married In Dwarka. The abduction wasn’t because of Subhadra’s consent, it was for Balaram and Yadav’s agreement

If Abduction was the norm for men then it was the norm for women as well, Krishna lists it as a method of legal marriage

They didn’t ask Subhadra before or after it, Krishna said he doesn’t know what she will do in her Swayamvara so Subhadra wasn’t someone who wouldn’t say anything, we had this discussion in the print article if you remember

She wasn’t submissive by nature

Abhi and Draupadi’s son from Arjuna were born before Khandavprasth burning, Subhadra was there with Draupadi, Krishna and Arjuna so she wasn’t pregnant at this point, Maya built the mahal in 14 months and went for search of manis to build it so there’s 3-4 months, Rajyasuya was suggested by Narada in Maya Palace

Sorry I wrote is wrong, I meant Subhadra was pregnant when they returned to Indraprasth.

I never said she had consent, I said there are women who have no hard feelings for their husbands after marital r**e

I don't think Subhadra was actually assertive, she could have followed her heart at Swayamwar but not otherwise I am sure

@Deepika, Definitely not Duryodhan was the one in her mind, Duryodhan's image towards children could easily be understood by the fact that all of the women rejected him at Swayamwars

If we go strictly by text, all 5 upapandavas were born after Abhimanyu and were actually tutored by him.

So yeah, bit hard to believe they were Panchali's kids. More like kids of other Pandava queens who were adopted by Panchali.

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

If we go strictly by text, all 5 upapandavas were born after Abhimanyu and were actually tutored by him.

So yeah, bit hard to believe they were Panchali's kids. More like kids of other Pandava queens who were adopted by Panchali.

Actually the Uppandavas birth order is not mentioned in the epic. It just states they were born

Abhimanyu could be the younger and yet better than his brothers and therefore tutor them

@Chiilli please share your opinions on Uppandavas too

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

Actually the Uppandavas birth order is not mentioned in the epic. It just states they were born

Abhimanyu could be the younger and yet better than his brothers and therefore tutor them

It's mentioned AFTER Abhimanyu😆. They wouldve had a guru to tutor them. Not Abhimanyu unless he were older. Plus the fact Abhimanyu is mentioned as heir.

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

It's mentioned AFTER Abhimanyu😆. They wouldve had a guru to tutor them. Not Abhimanyu unless he were older. Plus the fact Abhimanyu is mentioned as heir.

Could they all be DasiPutras adopted by Draupadi??

Sums up why they were never considered for the throne

Running away

Coming to Abhimanyu obviously Vaishampayan would be more clear about the birth of Janamejay's grandfather when compared to others

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

Sorry I wrote is wrong, I meant Subhadra was pregnant when they returned to Indraprasth.

I never said she had consent, I said there are women who have no hard feelings for their husbands after marital r**e

I don't think Subhadra was actually assertive, she could have followed her heart at Swayamwar but not otherwise I am sure

@Deepika, Definitely not Duryodhan was the one in her mind, Duryodhan's image towards children could easily be understood by the fact that all of the women rejected him at Swayamwars

Krishna was really after duryodhana in spoiling his plans 4 marriage🤣🤣

Subhadra ko arjun abduct karwaya.

Mrityvinda jo khud abduct kiya

Lakshmana was won by him swayamber I guess

Matlab he was really dislike him 2 core , if it was in his capabilities then he would had not let duryodhana marry anyone for sure.🤣🤣🤣

Involvement of Krishna

Drupad does not seem smart enough. It has to be Krishna working behind the scenes

Also the fact that none of the yadavas participated in the swayamvar.

It is my opinion that, Krishna suggested the Draupadi Arjun marriage through swayamvar, to gain Arjun as a weapon for himself.

He did not want Yudhi Drau marriage. He never wanted Yudhi to be emperor.

The many times I read the epic, the more I feel

1. Krishna was not a self sacrificing God who only came to earth for humanity's benefit.

He was an extraordinary human who was a good guy but at the same time had his own self interests.

2. He never liked Yudhishtir, he only tolerated him because he had no choice.

I cannot accept that Krishna ever wanted Yudhishtir to be emperor. Prativindhya was a nobody for him.

Empire does not end with emperor. There needs to be a chain of succession in place.

He had a much better candidate in Pradyumna whom he had groomed himself. And Aniruddha whom he had as a worthy successor to pradyumna. And after that Vajra his own grandson.

Abhimanyu like his father Arjuna was a weapon for him, to be used to get rid of enemies, not the one to rule but the one to protect as commander in chief.

Whatever social change that Krishna had in mind, he had 3 generations of capable candidates groomed by him in Pradyumna, Aniruddha and Vajra.