~| Whatever you want to argue about |~ - Page 49

As per some Dhrishtadyumn and Draupadi have to be brahmins as well. Otherwise Drupad could have done the same yagya and got the sanction for his own kshatriya born son. He apparently had 10 of them other than Shikhandi. I dont agree with the 10 sons part though. They may have been born named and died in childbirth or infancy. They didnt exist other than their names.

They also relate him to Angirasa as he is called incarnation of Agni.

Would him.being born make him.eligible for sanction, I am not sure about that...Because Indra was a Brahmin and he still carried the sin of Killing Vritra. He didnt get let off for being a brahmin.

Originally posted by: Chiillii

As per some Dhrishtadyumn and Draupadi have to be brahmins as well. Otherwise Drupad could have done the same yagya and got the sanction for his own kshatriya born son. He apparently had 10 of them other than Shikhandi. I dont agree with the 10 sons part though. They may have been born named and died in childbirth or infancy. They didnt exist other than their names.

They also relate him to Angirasa as he is called incarnation of Agni.

Would him.being born make him.eligible for sanction, I am not sure about that...Because Indra was a Brahmin and he still carried the sin of Killing Vritra. He didnt get let off for being a brahmin.

I don't think the current Indra killed Vritasur.

Vritasur was killed by the son of Dyaus Pitra, not the son of Kashyap rishi (the current Indra)

Kashyap Rishi was Brahmin so his children including Indra would be one, so would be Brahmins in that case Hiranyakashyapu and Hiranakshya. But Varah and Narsingh should have had Brahmhatya too, but I guess they weren't not human Avatars so nothing happened.

Anyhow was Dyaus Pitra a Brahmin so as to make the then Indra a Brahmin

New topic to debate:

Gandhari didn't intervene in her sons' misdeeds in childhood

She was clearly in dice hall and witnessed a sexual assault on another woman; didn't say a word until it looked like her sons might get into trouble.

After war, she went to Krishna with complaints, and this is what he says:

The holy one said, ‘Arise, arise, O Gandhari, do not set thy heart on grief! Through thy fault, this vast carnage has taken place! Thy son Duryodhana was wicked-souled, envious, and exceedingly arrogant. Applauding his wicked acts, thou regardest them to be good. Exceedingly cruel, he was the embodiment of hostilities, and disobedient to the injunctions of the old. Why dost thou wish to ascribe thy own faults to me? Dead or lost, the person that grieves for what has already occurred, obtaineth more grief. By indulging in grief, one increases it two-fold. A woman of the regenerate class bears children for the practice of austerities; the cow brings forth offspring for bearing burdens; the mare brings forth her young for acquiring speed of motion; the Shudra woman bears a child for adding to the number of servitors; the Vaishya woman for adding to the number of keepers of cattle. A princess, however, like thee, brings forth sons for being slaughtered!’"

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m11/m11025.htm

Krishna basically said it was Gandhari's fault her sons died.

Knowing all this, consider her curse: O Govinda, thou shalt be the slayer of thy own kinsmen! In the thirty-sixth year from this, O slayer of Madhu, thou shalt, after causing the slaughter of thy kinsmen and friends and sons, perish by disgusting means in the wilderness. The ladies of thy race, deprived of sons, kinsmen, and friends, shall weep and cry even as these ladies of the Bharata race!’"

https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m11/m11024.htm

What are the chances she arranged something to happen in Dwaraka?

I don't think she would have mentioned 36 years there. It's highly unlikely to specify a time while cursing and seems very much an interpolation.

Aside considering the Pandavas+Kauravas were 50+ at the time of the war, she would have been at least 67, 36 years later she would be 103 and can't do anything so option Completely ruled out,

Even if we take 36 months, she was 70 then with literally no support, she was neither the queen nor the queen mother, had no henchmen, how could she at all arrange such a huge destruction all by herself. Also not everyone died, obviously Vajra, Kritvarma's son etc. were saved so not actually Yadav destruction happened

Plus if she actually had powers she would have done it to the Pandavas not Yadavs

It is stated that all oldies left Hastinapur after 18 years/18 months and died way before Krishna did

The Indra who kills Vritra is in vedas. He is also addressed as son of Aditi. And Aditya. He is also named as Sakra in the vedas.

The Dyaus Pitra is the title given to kashyapa,

Indra of vedas is personification of thunder. Kashyapa is personification of sky.

There is only one Indra in vedas. No concept of multiple indras.

That is in puranas. Puranas are very different from vedas.

Killing of Vritra a brahmin by Indra a brahmin is a vedic story.

No thoughts on Gandhari? 😆 She's like Nakul Sahdev. No one's interested.

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar

No thoughts on Gandhari? 😆 She's like Nakul Sahdev. No one's interested.

Sahul (sahdev+ nakul) equivalent in Kaurava side is undoubtedly Dusshashan, I don't think anyone else can be an equivalence to that. Vikarna plays a more important role that him if you ask me, I still don't understand why was he given more importance than Durmukha or Subahu, I guess just because he followed the orders of KaDu in Dyut Sabha

About your question, I had responded to that above, I think you missed it

Originally posted by: Chiillii

The Indra who kills Vritra is in vedas. He is also addressed as son of Aditi. And Aditya. He is also named as Sakra in the vedas.

The Dyaus Pitra is the title given to kashyapa,

Indra of vedas is personification of thunder. Kashyapa is personification of sky.

There is only one Indra in vedas. No concept of multiple indras.

That is in puranas. Puranas are very different from vedas.

Killing of Vritra a brahmin by Indra a brahmin is a vedic story.

But has the Vedas mentioned Kashyap Rishi? I think only Dyaus Pitra is mentioned there. The Indra of Veda is the son of Dyaus right? Aside is it mentioned in Vedas that Indra is a Brahmin??

I thought that Kashyap rishi was an Puranik invention, in fact I think that the entire Kashyap Muni thing was an fictitious element added to give all the races present in India back then a common ancestry like Devas, Daityas, Nagas, Danavs, Apsaras etc.

Is it true that at the end Duryodhan reached heaven too? I always thought that he was in hell and Yudhisthir was shown an illusion of Duryodhan in heaven, but when later Yudhisthir denied to stay in company of such evil being, he was told that actually this was hell and all his brothers, Panchal warriors, Uppadavas+other kids, Karna etc. were in real heaven.

But today someone told me that all of them reached heaven including Duryodhan. I am trying to find the citation but am unable to, could someone please guide me.

Aside I want to understand if Duryodhan was actually in hell (as I know), then why was Karna not in hell. What good deed (excluding being the son of Kunti) did he do to get into a better place than Duryodhan

P.S. Ok got the citation, so probably, heaven was the worst option for all the people involved in Mahabharat. Everyone got a better place, some got into VishnuLok, some ChandraLok, Some DharmaLok, Krishna's wives became Apsaras, Dhristdhyum to AgniLok etc. All sons of Dhritrashtra were all Rakshas and so were those who supported Duryodhan, so they all could just get heaven.

Wow such a horrific life, worst you could get out of it is heaven