Mahabharat of B. R. Chopra: Discussions/ DT note pg 119 - Page 103

Hey 😊

Which episode are they on? The timing is very odd for me to watch on DD and I don't know why but I don't want to give TRP to colours 😆

Originally posted by: Sanskruthi

Hey 😊

Which episode are they on? The timing is very odd for me to watch on DD and I don't know why but I don't want to give TRP to colours 😆

Same here. Even I don't wish to contribute to the TRPs of colors and SP. 😆

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

This was just a joke on BRC Karna taking into consideration the prompt Rath delivery services for Dronacharya

Nothing serious

Although though I do not think Arjun's waiting for Karna to get back onto the Rath would have made any difference, I really wish that Arjun would have waited and delayed the Vadh until Karna was back onto his Rath. This would have refrained the ever lasting allegation of Karna fans that Arjun cheated and was not as good a warrior..

I Believe it wouldn't have helped both cases of fans even if Karna was killed fairly 😆 I do really like his character but IMO he brought upon that death himself. If you go by book Karna's death look too obvious more than the death of any characters.

I don't know why I turned into a grandma regarding MB and lost the passion to defend my favourites (Karna, Arjuna, Kunti- They're amongst the most bashed), I was there once so I can understand respective fans😛... But now I've realised unfair deaths are not that uncommon- (eg-Ramayana Bali)... it was for a cause, he had to die.

And to be really truthful there exist greater tragedies than MB in history (zamorin-vascodagama- Calicut) to be angry about. I wish the energy was directed there over the people who are not even real anymore (considering we have actual valid texts not just tellings and retellings). Critisicm is one but plain hating is stupid IMHO. No offence to any fans😊

Originally posted by: Sanskruthi

I Believe it wouldn't have helped both cases of fans even if Karna was killed fairly 😆 I do really like his character but IMO he brought upon that death himself. If you go by book Karna's death look too obvious more than the death of any characters.

I don't know why I turned into a grandma regarding MB and lost the passion to defend my favourites (Karna, Arjuna, Kunti- They're amongst the most bashed), I was there once so I can understand respective fans😛... But now I've realised unfair deaths are not that uncommon- (eg-Ramayana Bali)... it was for a cause, he had to die.

And to be really truthful there exist greater tragedies than MB in history (zamorin-vascodagama- Calicut) to be angry about. I wish the energy was directed there over the people who are not even real anymore (considering we have actual valid texts not just tellings and retellings). Critisicm is one but plain hating is stupid IMHO. No offence to any fans😊

Do not want to hurt anyone's feelings, just expressed my views.😊

Originally posted by: Viswasruti

I read somewhere-- when Arjuna was mourning for Karna's death ...after knowing that he too was one of the Pandavas, then Krishna told him--- " why are you mourning for his death Paarth? Do you believe that you are solely responsible for his death? No! He was killed by four of us ,--because of Me [ by siding Arjun, the fate of Karna was already decided there itself!] by you,[ the arrow which removed spirit from his body was yours!] by your mother Kunti[ she requested Karna to spare all the Pandavas, except Arjun.... till the wartime, she never bothered revealing about his birth secret] and finally by Indra [ the father of Arjun, came disguised as a brahmin to divest him of his earrings and breastplate, which made him vulnerable in the battlefield]. Karna was a great friend and famous for his charity. But he was very much there heckling Draupadi in Kuru Sabha, that single nasty deed is enough for saying him a grey character. Karna is a mere supporting character, not a hero mettle. The later versions added some glory to this character,by adding Drau wanted to marry him, was ready to accept him as her 6th husband,etc which I prefer to ignore. Because for me those words are to demean Drau and glorify Karna.

Do not want to hurt anyone's feelings, just expressed my views.😊

I get what you mean, I meant the same too😳 I meant going by book his death was the culmination of whatever he'd done my other part of comment was regarding fanwars, people fail to see logic. Karna had flaws... I'm not blind to them😊 you're a friend why will you offend me🤗

Originally posted by: Sanskruthi

I get what you mean, I meant the same too😳 I meant going by the book his death was the culmination of whatever he'd done my other part of the comment was regarding fan wars, people fail to see logic. Karna had flaws... I'm not blind to them😊 you're a friend why will you offend me🤗

Karna was very much an important character, he was among the leads and wasn't some secondary character

Just as from the Pandavas side Bheem and Arjun were important, Kaurav side had Karna and Shakuni. If we consider Yudhishtir and Duryodhan as leads for each team, then Arjun/Bheem and Karna/Shakuni are the most important people in each of the team.

Anyone who doubts his importance in the story is undermining him, however it's the glorification of Karna that irritates me.

Coming to the part of four of us were united in killing Karna, I don't believe in that. It's simply a glorification and taking away the credit from Arjun. If we remove the divinity, then Krishna's presence didn't mean much. He was a great politician but there I don't think it could have mattered. Kunti never "asked" him to spare his four sons, it was the decision of Karna on his own -- a clear cut betrayal to his best friend. The Kawatch kundal didn't help a lot to Karna I am sure, else he wouldn't have been so easily defeated during the Virat war (Arjun didn't even have Krishna then) although it must have helped to protect his life but didn't make him invincible. Karna's was a warrior and would have preferred dying as fighter rather than living as a loser, so it was a proper trade he did with Indraji by parting from his Kawatch kundal for the Indrast. I might agree it was a deal in which Karna was slightly at loss (giving something you can have for ever for something you could use only once), but that wasn't some greatness from him side but a calculated trade because he thought he would kill Arjun by it and other warriors on their side weren't good enough for him

It was only his misfortune/Duryodhan's stupidity that the same was used for Ghatochkat

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

Karna was very much an important character, he was among the leads and wasn't some secondary character

Just as from the Pandavas side Bheem and Arjun were important, Kaurav side had Karna and Shakuni. If we consider Yudhishtir and Duryodhan as leads for each team, then Arjun/Bheem and Karna/Shakuni are the most important people in each of the team.

Anyone who doubts his importance in the story is undermining him, however it's the glorification of Karna that irritates me.

Coming to the part of four of us were united in killing Karna, I don't believe in that. It's simply a glorification and taking away the credit from Arjun. If we remove the divinity, then Krishna's presence didn't mean much. He was a great politician but there I don't think it could have mattered. Kunti never "asked" him to spare his four sons, it was the decision of Karna on his own -- a clear cut betrayal to his best friend. The Kawatch kundal didn't help a lot to Karna I am sure, else he wouldn't have been so easily defeated during the Virat war (Arjun didn't even have Krishna then) although it must have helped to protect his life but didn't make him invincible. Karna's was a warrior and would have preferred dying as fighter rather than living as a loser, so it was a proper trade he did with Indraji by parting from his Kawatch kundal for the Indrast. I might agree it was a deal in which Karna was slightly at loss (giving something you can have for ever for something you could use only once), but that wasn't some greatness from him side but a calculated trade because he thought he would kill Arjun by it and other warriors on their side weren't good enough for him

It was only his misfortune/Duryodhan's stupidity that the same was used for Ghatochkat

Agree, Karna is an imp character, who was there in almost all the inglorious scenes where Duryodhana insulted, harassed, deprived, and committed despicable crimes against the mighty Pandavas and Draupadi. If we say that someone has died undeservedly then we are doubting God's irrefutable Laws of Karma!

Regarding Krishna's role in killing Karna, let us explore a few more points. 😊 Karna was the only person who was able to defeat Arjuna. Karna was stronger and kinder, but still, he got an undeserved death at the hands of Arjuna, on the advice of Lord Krishna. What is the reason behind ending the life of a good warrior like him in such a way?

Here is another interesting story ---

Both Krishna and Kunti wanted Karna to be on Pandavas’ side. They both asked for that first but Karna denied it. Karna even could have chosen to stand neutral from war. But Karna would not(not could not). So, Kunti asked for the two boons to ensure victory for Pandavas! First one she asked Karna --Kunti asked Karna to spare Pandavs except for Arjun. Though it is not as per authentic texts. In another version, Karna himself said Kunti that he will spare 4 brothers except for Arjuna. This is the first vow which destroyed Karna. The second vow was --When Krishna asked Kunti before the war, whom she wants to see alive after the war , her reply was like --' I have more attachment towards Arjun, so, please save Arjun' A mother's wish it was!

She knew one of them has to die and she can not openly proclaim Karna to be her son. If one has to die, better if it was Karna, the already estranged of the six brothers. In a war of equals or almost equals, or sometimes even unequal, one can never be sure who gets to kill whom. Even if Kunthi genuinely believed Karna was more powerful, it does not prove he is better than Arjuna. Even Duryodhana believed it. Even Yudhister suspected it in the heat of war. Bhishma and Drona never believed it. Those are all opinions. In a few hand to hand battles earlier, which were not very serious, Arjuna had an edge, but even that does not prove anything. The supremacy is to be decided only in the Great War of Mahabharata. Karna genuinely believed he had a chance. Unfortunately, all the past curses he accumulated over his years stood in the way.

If we put our favouritisms aside,( Arjun is my fav one ) great warrior brothers Karna and Arjuna, pity, fate pitted them against each other in an irrevocable manner and only one had to survive. Arjuna was the unfortunate victor left to lament killing his own brother in dubious circumstances and Karna became a martyr, gained great sympathy and loved by all, over generations who excused his follies, small or big!!

Many hearts will empathize with the unfortunate mother who was far advanced for that age, yet trapped under circumstances.

But , his most condemnable crimes are, he insulted and heckled Draupadi the Queen of Indraprastha, and associated with others, he killed Abhimanyu in a dubious way, those two follies made him a grey character.

Coincidently...today is Mother's Day dear FlauntPessimism, 🤗Happy Mothers Day ,high respect and regards to you and to your mother.❤️

^^^ actually I was mentioning the KMG and BORI, where she didn't ask for the lives of her other four sons, but yes BRC n few folklores do mention that she specifically asked for that

Agreed with the rest of your points

Happy mother's Day dear to you and to your mother. 🤗

This is my first mother's Day although no gift from my son😭

Guys I just noticed there's some inherent flaw in the way BRC Arjun handles his bow.

As far as I know, he isn't supposed to hug his Gandeev every time he fires? A good archer is capable of sustaining the back-thrust from the shooting of the arrow and keeping the bow steadied.

BRC Arjun in all shots of his just bends his bow with every arrow. 😆