Hindi is a little child in diapers says kamal haasan. - Page 33

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--Pro.vo.King-- thumbnail
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Posted: 5 years ago

Originally posted by: Anony-mouse

What do you mean pre-posterous? This is how language has evolved over millennia. How do you think we speak Urdu in the sub-continent? It’s definitely not a local language. The locals were forced to speak a foreign language which evolved into something else. Same is with English- someone brought it here and it spread- for reasons. Why do you think English is spreading through the African sub-continent/China etc?

Exactly my point .. What you are talking about is applicable for ancient societies where it was all about conquering and survival of the fittest .. Modern societies have evolved beyond such barbarism ( whats the point of being a human being if we haven't evolved ) .. Such mentality no longer has place in a modern society and wherever it is happening / about to happen needs to be discouraged .. Which is what we are doing here .. We no longer abide by such ancient rules ..

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preposterous

/prɪˈpɒst(ə)rəs/

adjective

  1. contrary to reason or common sense; utterly absurd or ridiculous.
    "a preposterous suggestion"












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    ridiculous


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    hare-brained


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    insane


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    irrational


    illogical


    outrageous


    shocking


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    Opposite:

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--Pro.vo.King-- thumbnail
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Posted: 5 years ago

Originally posted by: RegressiveThug

I didn't wrongly understood anything, my argument with RTH was simple desire and tools are equally important. It was you who was bringing in the usual "Hindi imposition", by making it like I was telling RTH, we need Hindi to unite the nation, by replying me "English is already there".

I didn't accused you of something you never said, I just called you out for your celebration of mob attack on those who are foolish enough to impose Hindi in public.

The problem is RTH's post was about Hindi imposition .. You on your own separated her post from Hindi imposition and arrived at your own absurd conclusion by taking the post out of context .. And now you have gone so far into denial that you are refusing to see the truth by burying your head in the sand even after RTH herself explained you the meaning of her post .. You desperately want that post to be something it was not / to be something which you think you saw .. And now the problem is , you cant admit to your blunder even if it is staring right in your face .. you are now caught in a loop .. 😆

Mob retaliation justification was one thing , but are you saying that you didn't accuse me of reading only small part of trouble006's post , taking it out of context and misunderstanding it ? .. This is getting hilarious by the second .. 😆

Anony-mouse thumbnail
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Posted: 5 years ago

Originally posted by: --Pro.vo.King--

Exactly my point .. What you are talking about is applicable for ancient societies where it was all about conquering and survival of the fittest .. Modern societies have evolved beyond such barbarism ( whats the point of being a human being if we haven't evolved ) .. Such mentality no longer has place in a modern society and wherever it is happening / about to happen needs to be discouraged .. Which is what we are doing here .. We no longer abide by such ancient rules ..

----

preposterous

/prɪˈpɒst(ə)rəs/

adjective

  1. contrary to reason or common sense; utterly absurd or ridiculous.
    "a preposterous suggestion"












    Similar:

    absurd


    ridiculous


    foolish


    stupid


    ludicrous


    farcical


    laughable


    comical


    risible


    hare-brained


    asinine


    inane


    nonsensical


    pointless


    senseless


    insane


    unreasonable


    irrational


    illogical


    outrageous


    shocking


    astonishing


    monstrous


    unbelievable


    incredible


    unthinkable


    crazy


    Opposite:

    reasonable


    sensible











I do know what preposterous means thats exactly why I asked you- this is hardly uncommon-the way languages evolve/spread- its happened repeatedly throughout human history. How is the spread of English all over the world ancient? Its very much a reality of the world we live in. We can crib/complain all we want but languages are like water they find a way to evolve.

--Pro.vo.King-- thumbnail
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Posted: 5 years ago

Originally posted by: Anony-mouse


I do know what preposterous means thats exactly why I asked you- this is hardly uncommon-the way languages evolve/spread- its happened repeatedly throughout human history. How is the spread of English all over the world ancient? Its very much a reality of the world we live in. We can crib/complain all we want but languages are like water they find a way to evolve.

Evolution is unavoidable .. Things will take their natural course .. But the same cannot be said about imposition in modern times .. Nevertheless , if you take human history into account , everything which was tolerated back then isn't necessarily acceptable now ( and that is because of the "evolution" of human society ) .. Imposition in modern times is not only avoidable but inadmissible .. Hence the notion of attributing imposition to demand and supply logic is ridiculously preposterous ..

Being a native Mumbaikar , i think you can very well grasp the pulse of a "Marathi Manus" and just how strong it is , sometimes bordering on extremism .. Why do you think that is ? .. It is a retaliation to migrant cultures trying to take over the local ..

Ur-Miserable thumbnail
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Posted: 5 years ago

Originally posted by: --Pro.vo.King--

The problem is RTH's post was about Hindi imposition .. You on your own separated her post from Hindi imposition and arrived at your own absurd conclusion by taking the post out of context .. And now you have gone so far into denial that you are refusing to see the truth by burying your head in the sand even after RTH herself explained you the meaning of her post .. You desperately want that post to be something it was not / to be something which you think you saw .. And now the problem is , you cant admit to your blunder even if it is staring right in your face .. you are now caught in a loop .. 😆

Mob retaliation justification was one thing , but are you saying that you didn't accuse me of reading only small part of trouble006's post , taking it out of context and misunderstanding it ? .. This is getting hilarious by the second .. 😆

RTH didn't explained anything, she went on with Hindi imposition abba jaaba, when I was simply telling her about tools being as important as desire, it is simple. Unlike trouble006 who told you again and again, she wasn't saying Hindi should be imposed or she was showing any sympathy or giving lee way to Hindi imposers. RTH on the other even after I told her it's not about Hindi imposition, went on with the imposition thing.

And no it's not getting hilarious from my side, hilarious you and some other in the thread crying about something I never implied.

RTH makes a post, talking about how language shouldn't be imposed and desire is enough. I replied to her telling her how desire isn't enough, a common tool(language, signs and so on) are equally important for communication. I never talked about Hindi or Japanese, or a new common tool is required. No where I said anything to get replies from you bunch who are trying to make it like I am saying all non-Hindi speakers need to learn Hindi.

--Pro.vo.King-- thumbnail
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Posted: 5 years ago

Originally posted by: RegressiveThug

RTH didn't explained anything, she went on with Hindi imposition abba jaaba, when I was simply telling her about tools being as important as desire, it is simple. Unlike trouble006 who told you again and again, she wasn't saying Hindi should be imposed or she was showing any sympathy or giving lee way to Hindi imposers. RTH on the other even after I told her it's not about Hindi imposition, went on with the imposition thing.

And no it's not getting hilarious from my side, hilarious you and some other in the thread crying about something I never implied.

RTH makes a post, talking about how language shouldn't be imposed and desire is enough. I replied to her telling her how desire isn't enough, a common tool(language, signs and so on) are equally important for communication. I never talked about Hindi or Japanese, or a new common tool is required. No where I said anything to get replies from you bunch who are trying to make it like I am saying all non-Hindi speakers need to learn Hindi.

What do you think was the point of bringing up "desire" in the first place ? .. I did ask you to refer very first line of RTH's post to grasp meaning of her post in its entirety .. Did you ? .. Or you were unable to comprehend it even after being spoon fed ? .. In that case , this is certainly hopeless .. 😆

Here's one last attempt , Desire = Willingness =/= Imposition <----- and that was the point of her post. You somehow took "desire" out of context and started going round n round n round n round about it with no head or tail to your arguments .. 😆

As for trouble006's post , that has already been explained to you .. If you cant understand what is going on here , you wont understand what went down there .. As simple as that .. 😆

1166099 thumbnail
Posted: 5 years ago

Itne lambe essay 😆

--Pro.vo.King-- thumbnail
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Posted: 5 years ago

😳 😆

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Posted: 5 years ago

TL/DR: People who argue for a national language in India are wrong. I present evidence. Regressive-Thug is wrong when he says tools are as important as desire. I present evidence.

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There are some Indians who believe Hindi should be the national language of India. Usually, there are two primary reasons given why India should have a national language. One is that a nation needs a common language to unify it. The second is that a common language makes communication possible. If you read through this thread, there are several people calling on and hoping for Hindi as a national language.

It is in light of these comments that I made the contentions that a) a nation exists because of the idea of the nation and not a common language b) communication requires desire and not a common language. My sole basis for making these two statements was as a counter-argument against those in favor of a national language. And I will reiterate, anyone who calls to make any language the national language of India is misguided in their efforts.

Language had nothing to do with India becoming a nation in 1947. We exist because of a common struggle against colonization and the united front our ancestors put up against colonizing powers. Diversity has always been a double-edged sword for India. Had it not been for religious divides, we may have been a much bigger nation. Linguistic, religious, cultural, regional, economic, and even culinary differences constantly bubble up and cause friction within India. But diversity is also the strength of India. It is what makes us different than other nations. Some nations are diverse because of immigration, we were diverse from conception. Diversity is what makes people fall in love with India. We honestly would be a very boring nation if we were homogenous.

I won't deny, a common language does make communication easier. I've seen so many immigrants struggle over language in the United States that I have started to better appreciate my English education. English also has served well when I travel. It is easier to find your way around Charles DeGaulle or take public transit alone in Taipei as an English speaker than it is as a Hindi/Konkani/Marathi speaker (the other languages I speak)

But a common language is not necessary to communicate. When I was younger I did wonder why everyone in India didn't just learn Hindi. Sometimes in the USA, I do get frustrated and wonder why everyone cannot learn English. But the fact is learning a new language, especially as an adult is fucking hard. Like seriously pull your hair apart or blow a bullet through your head fucking hard. I cannot count the number of times I have tried to learn French or Spanish and then given up because it was too hard. I cannot tell you how many people I know who did four years of Spanish in high school and then some in college but stare blankly at native Spanish speakers. And not everyone is privileged to have a multilingual upbringing. Some people in this world are lucky to even have an education let alone learn a second language. Even if you somehow manage to learn a new language overcoming accent is another challenge. Pop culture and slang add another layer of complexity. You won't know the difference between 'This is shit' and 'This is the shit' unless you are a native English speaker in a relatively westernized region.

But somehow we communicate. People travel abroad. People live in other countries. People immigrate. It is all because people want to communicate. Desire is everything. The telephones, television, cellphones, the internet - all communication tools exist because people wanted to connect and communicate.

Now Regressive-Thug has decoupled "communication requires desire" from "communication doesn't require a common language, ergo the need for a common language for communication is a weak argument for a national language." I do find that this decoupling although done with the best intents is a bit dishonest. In general, taking statements out of their context is a bad thing. Considering the entire thread has been about whether or not Hindi (or some language) should be a national language, the decoupling seems even more egregious.

That being said "communication" is an independent topic of discussion on its own. Communication theory can be discussed outside of political or national language discussions. Why one would isolate communication theory in a political national language discussion thread is beyond me. But I do want to address the argument.

If I understand correctly Regressive-Thug claims "tools are as important as desire." To a certain extent that is true.

Hieroglyphics were undecipherable despite the best efforts and desires of Egyptologists to decipher them until a tool (the Rosetta stone) was found. But why was the Rosetta stone engraved? Why was an Egyptian edict translated in Greek and pre-Coptic script? Well Ptolemy V wanted as many people as possible to read the Memphis edict. He desired to communicate with more people. Hence the stone was engraved. But unlike Egyptologists who set to translate hieroglyphics as soon as the stone was found - I just took a photo. One of the world's most important communication tools - and I just put it in a travel album. Because I was just a tourist and had no desire to translate hieroglyphics. (I don't read Greek or pre-Coptic either)

When you analyze most "essential tools" they were all created because someone had a "desire" to communicate. And they all are rendered "useless" if there is a "lack of desire."

Sign language didn't exist until deaf-mute people were like "geez, we wish we could talk to each other"

Interpreters wouldn't exist if people weren't like "geez, we wish we could talk to each other"

Phrasebooks wouldn't exist if people weren't like "I wish I could communicate better when I travel"

Learning second languages wouldn't exist if people weren't like "it's practical to be able to communicate with more people"

Desire came first and then the tool. Without desire, the tool doesn't exist. And if there is no tool, desire will drive the creation of new tools. That is why even though tools are nice and handy, desire to communicate is the most important thing. Without desire to communicate you will just take a photo of the tool and put it in your album.

That is why people who expect others to learn Hindi/English/any language genuinely don't want to communicate. If they want a national language so others should learn a new language they are doing so out of sheer laziness and no logical reason. Communication is a two-way process. If two Indians who don't speak the same language meet and want to find a way to communicate they will find a way - wild hand gestures, finding someone to translate or a translation app. But if even one of them thinks you should have learned my language because you are in my country/state they will refuse to communicate even if there is a translator or other tool available. Sorry, I could not decouple the communication theory from the larger discussion.

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