Mastani, Rakma Bai Pg30 | All about MASTANI, Chimaji, Nana Saheb Pg31 - Page 18

Originally posted by: history_geek

Thanks Manali. I never knew we have such lizards in India, before watching in the show and then searching.

Are they poisonous ? Do they attack without being provoked ? Because this article said that they retreat seeing humans.

Originally posted by: history_geek

Thanks for the details, Maddy. Attardani and Gulabdani was a part of almost all aristocratic families. I have seen Mughal & Rajput ones too. But you have explained this painting in a great depth. :)

I don't have any such representation of ear rings right now. But a nose ring (nath) is here. This is from the National Museum. It is centering upon a pear-shaped white sapphire with a pearl finial and surrounded by pearls. The thick gold wire is threaded with pearls and red and green glass beads. All precious and semi precious stones. Maratha style.

Probably, the ear rings which you have explained would be of similar material.


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You all were talking of that Marathi show Shrimant Peshwa Bajirav Mastani on last page. The person who enacted the role of brother in law of Bajirao (husband of Anu Bai, named Venkat Rao, mentioned on page 1 of this thread) in it , is the real life husband of Anuja Sathe (Radha Bai of our show) - Saurav Gokhale. He was supposed to play the role of Bajirao in it, but missed the chance. Just read this on Net during my failed attempt to search any Hindi episodes of that show.

Originally posted by: MaddyO

Abhay WOW!  Thanks a lot for such long descriptive post, you answered all my questions.  Though of course I will love to read about these events in greater detail from you.

Maddy, I want to write as less as possible but your posts are extracting more and more from me. Lol.


I feel very glad to know about Bhavani Bai, though sad to know about other daughters.  Somehow since Shivaji Maharaj had named her and she was the first grandchild had made me feel bad. I did not know about Sambhaji Maharaj's another wife or children!

I understand your sentiments. Its ok.


I wonder why Yesubai did not go Sati?  Maybe she was not allowed to being captive and also maybe she was worried about Shahuji's and other children's fate.

Yesu Bai was at Raigad if i am correct, when Sambhaji was executed. So, if she wanted she could have gone for Sati. She was arrested few months after his death, when the fort of Raigad fell to Mughals.

But she did not go for Sati. She is described as a wise and patient lady in Maratha history who was devoted to the Maratha cause and hence did not end her life. This also goes to show that Sati was not forced and already examples have been given on this thread when women did not go for Sati.

I remember in the pages inside this thread, we had discussed Yesu Bai and Chatrapati Rajaram. We saw how Yesu Bai tried to mislead Aurangzeb by saying that Rajaram betrayed her by leaving her back at Raigad and himself fled to the safety of Gingee Fort.

Now here is some new information. Yesu Bai herself took the lead when Zulfiqar Khan arrived in front of Raigad on 25th March 1689. She advised the Maratha garrison that Raigad was too strong a fort to fall easily to Mughals. And since the siege had just then started, hence Rajaram should go away to safety along with his wives. Her reasoning was entire family should not remain stuck at the same place.

So, now it is clear that she herself took the lead in sending away Rajaram.

Rashmi - Hope you are reading this. So the doubt gets cleared completely. There was no mis understanding as we were pondering over that aspect. It was all planned by Yesu Bai. First she sent Rajaram away. And, when Aurangzeb was trying to manipulate her she also tried the same tactics on him.

{ Here is where we discussed about Shahu-Aurangzeb-Yesu Bai-Rajaram. Read the end part of my comment on this link, as response to @_goofycat_ to know the background : https://www.indiaforums.com/forum/post/139959389 }

Yesu Bai appears no less than Tara Bai are far as daring aspect is concerned. After all, which Queen would think of facing the entire might of Mughal army and stay back in the fort ?


You reminded me of an incident read in Shriman Yogi.  When Shivaji Maharaj escaped from Agra, he left Sambhaji Maharaj back in Mathura with Moropant Pingle's relatives/Kavi Kalash.  After Shivaji Maharaj came back to Raigad he had declared Sambhaji Raje had died in the journey - to avoid Aurangzeb's search.  Hearing this news Pilaji Shirke - Yesubai's father had gone to Raigad asking for Sambhaji Raje's sword so Yesubai can go Sati with it. 
Shivaji Maharaj had sworn Pilaji to secrecy and revealed the truth to him.  Jijabai was the only one to know the truth before.

Reading about Bhavani going sati reminded me about this incident.

Putalabai went Sati after Shivaji Maharaj's death though after sometime as she was not present on Raigad.


Thanks for sharing. This re-enforces my point that Sati was not forced ( at least in Maratha royalty of late 17th and early 18th century). I have read ( and it is obvious ) that these wives were too attached to their husbands. Hence, went for it.

Moreover, it also matters if you have any responsibility or not. Like, Tara Bai did not go for Sati but decided to fight. Similarly, Yesu Bai decided to face the siege of Raigad and helped Rajaram escape.

BTW, a point came to my mind. In 1772, Ambika Bai, the wife of Peshwa Nana Saheb (eldest son of Bajirao and Kashibai ) , after his death, was still active and influential. She wrote to the next Peshwa that he should take steps to ban the sale of bride / girls. She also mentioned that similar steps were taken by her Late. husband Nana Saheb when he was alive.

Any information about his practice, which they were talking about would be appreciated.


Shahuji married Sakwarbai Shirke and Saguna bai Mohite.  Both such well known surnames from Maratha history.  Yesubai's maternal surname was Shirke and Mohite was Habirrao Mohite/Soyra bai's maternal surname.  Maybe they were from the same families.

I also thought the same. But this could be a different Mohite / Shirke family too. Hence, did not write more.


Shocking!  What an idiotic promise/vachan to give and to stand by it after Aurangzeb's death?!!!  To a man who kept him and his entire family captured for decades and had Sambhaji Raje killed tortuously!

Remembered Shivaji Maharaj's words he betrayed his enemies but never his friends.  Wish Shahuji had understood this!  He should have let Bajirao have free run.

Will write more on this later. This is very complicated. I find life of Chatrapati Shahu interesting. He was a great judge of character and situation. Will try to post that letter of Shahu ji to Bajirao. It is in Marathi.


I hope we get to see about this rescue by Balaji and Bajirao in PB serial.
Truly they do not need to make up stuff since Bajirao's and Balaji's life is filled with such incredible history and events.

Exactly. This show is a perfect opportunity to show everything as it happened. We are already discussing here and can see that all the ingredients to make a successful show are present.


Abhay thanks again, I am so eagerly looking forward the Shivaji Maharaj's navy thread. 😃

Lol. You won't forget it. I will write as soon as possible. I am very much occupied and was considering if it should write more. Just continuing to write due to the interest which has developed in discussion here.


BTW does your blog have post about Zinat un Nissa Begum?  I remember you mentioned it on earlier thread but did not find it easily on blog.  I want to  read  Aurangzeb and valentine day post too 😆


Maddy,

The post is not about Zinat un Nissa Begum. It is about Zeb un Nissa Begum. She was another gem. Younger sister of Zinnat un Nissa. But died comparatively young in prison in 1702.

You should read 3 blogs i have written about this unfortunate daughter of Aurangzeb. So much talent and regard for all faiths. She wrote about Sri Krishna, Maa Saraswati and Laxmi. But even she could not win over the bigotry of her father. She spent her best years of youth in prison!

Links :

I will not Lift My Veil - Zeb un Nissa Part 1

Neither Supplications not gold can win me - Zeb un Nissa Part 2

My Name is Zeb un Nissa and i am the glory of womankind - Part 3

All these above titles are actually the first lines of her poems.
I have made them the titles of my posts, quoted lot of poems she wrote, in my blogs.



And
Here is the link about Aurangzeb's Valentine. Lol.

Aurangzeb's Love Affair at first sight

You won't believe that he fainted after seeing her first time. She was jumping, trying to get mango from the tree, unaware of presence of prince. This move of hers robbed Aurangzeb of his senses.

In his chronicler's words - "The prince, on seeing her, unable to control himself, sat down there, and then fell down at full length on the ground in a swoon."

He saw her and lost his senses. And regained consciousness after 90 minutes. This is written by his chronicler. I have presented 3 accounts of this story in my blog.

Originally posted by: MaddyO

TFS. 😊  I guess this was when Sambhaji Raje was asked to go to Parali and he went but Samarth Ramdas Swami was not there and he joined Mugals.  This was big blunder of his.  Sad to know about Sakhubai and Durgabai.

I guess Durga Bai information is in Chhava, it is not in Shriman Yogi.
I did not know about Sakhubai being in captivity all her life. 

Originally posted by: history_geek

An Interesting narration of
Sambhaji's desertion to Mughal Camp and Return Back

13th December 1678   to   4th December 1679

Yesu Bai, Sakhubai, Mahadaji and Bajaji Nimbalkar

I have some conflicting information. :)
BTW, i would take this opportunity to narrate the entire event.

According to what i have read, it was Yesu Bai who was with Sambhaji when he defected to the Mughal camp on 13th December 1678. He was kept confined at Panhala Fort by Shivaji to keep a tab on his evil habits, when he ran away from there.

While he was under confinement, the Mughal governor Dilir Khan sent tempting offers to him through secret spies. Sambhaji succumbed to the offers and defected. Shivaji sent a force in pursuit of Sambhaji but it was too late.

So happy was Dilir Khan that in his biography, his chronicler writes - Dilir thought as if he had won the entire Deccan by winning the successor of Shivaji on his side. He wrote to Aurangzeb about this ; but the latter was suspicious and thought this is some plan of Shivaji. But also gave permission to treat Sambhaji with kindness.

Sambhaji was made mansabdar of 7000 and presented an elephant. Dilir also sent 4000 men to escort him and bring him to Mughal camp.

At Bhupalgarh,
Heavy losses to Marathas

Then, together Sambhaji and Dilir Khan attacked Bijapur, and on way they attacked Bhupalgarh. At Bhupalgarh, Sambhaji disclosed various secrets of the Marathas. At this place, the bulk of Maratha treasury was kept. Almost all major nobles had kept their treasures here safely under the custody of Phirangoji Narsala.

Phirangoji could have attacked the raiding party with guns as he was fully equipped. But he did not attack with guns because the attackers had Sambhaji too. He thought what if any bullet hit Sambhaji as he was the son of his master Shivaji ?

Hence, the fight was with Maratha daggers and swords and Mughal muskets and sophisticated weaponry. After great hand to hand combat finally on 2nd April 1679, the Fort fell. Lot of Maratha sardars were put to death.

When Shivaji came to know of this, he severely reprimanded Phirangoji for not firing on Sambhaji and putting the sinner to death !! Shivaji is reported to have said - He would have fired had he been there.

Sambhaji and Dilir Khan conduct the siege of Bijapur
Shivaji supports Bijapur
Finally, Sambhaji and Dilir Khan retreat and attack Panhala

After destroying the Maratha territories, Dilir Khan and Sambhaji reached near Bijapur at a place whose ruler Siddhi Masud asked for Shivaji's help. Shiavji sent 10,000 cavalry to help Masud and himself moved to "punish" Dilir Khan.

For 2 months, Dilir Khan tried to capture Bijapur but could not, as Shivaji was continuously pouring int troops and material on Bijapuri side. Finally, on 14th November, he retreated. Now Dilir and Sambhaji moved towards the West and decided to the take of Panhala (which was with Marathas and where Sambhaji was kept confined).


To be noted :

1. In this siege of Bijapur, Maloji Ghorpade of Mudhol was a great help to Shivaji and fought along with him against the Mughals.

2. However, Bajaji Nimbalkar, the brother of Sai Bai & brother in law of Shivaji, who was now in Mughal service, was fighting on Mughal side ! He is the same person, for whom Shivaji & Sai Bai debated / fought / reasoned with the entire orthodox Brahmin class and re converted him back to Hinduism (as he was forcibly converted earlier to Islam), and also got his daughter Sakhubai married to his son as no one was ready to get his son married with his daughter !

Return of Sambhaji
After brutality of Dilir Khan

Now, Sambhaji and Dilir Khan were moving towards Panhala. On way they stopped at a place called Tikota.

But here Dilir Khan demonstrated such cruelty and conduct which would shame humanity. Villages were plundered ruthlessly. Population was killed without any thought. Innocent women had to save their honor by jumping into wells. No one was spared, whether Hindu or Muslim. 3000 men were still taken captive to be sold into slavery !!

Shivers were sent down Sambhaji's spine and he strongly protested against this act of Dilir Khan. This was the first moment of crack between the two partners.

From here they went to another town called Athani. Here Dilir Khan was selective. He only laid hands on Hindus. And started repeating the same as he did at Tikota. The natives begged Sambhaji. Made appeals to him in name of  his father Shivaji to save their honor.

Sambhaji, who was already in anger due to what happened at the last stop, now protested. But he was over ruled and Dilir also told him that he was the master of his own destiny.

Sambhaji grew sick of this, as he was not used to hear "orders" from anyone.

We have already seen Bajaji Nimbalkar who fought on Mughal side in siege of Bijapur. His son Mahadaji Nimbalkar who was married to Sakhubai was also in Mughal service. So, he was Sambhaji's brother in law. Though, he was in Mughal service himself, he "reprimanded" Sambhaji for betraying his father and joining Mughals. I find this ironical as he was himself in Mughal service. He also informed Sambhaji that the latter was not safe here.

Sambhaji reported the matter to Dilir Khan and Mahadaji was kept in confinement for some days for not "behaving properly".

{
During all this time, 2 things happened :

1. Aurangzeb learnt that the siege of Bijapur was a failure. Hence, he ordered Sambhaji to be arrested and brought to Delhi. And replaced Dilir Khan with Bahadur Khan in Deccan.

2. From December 1678 to November 1679, Shivaji's agents were constantly trying to make Sambhaji return to his father. Hence, his mind by now after seeing all this was prepared to leave Dilir Khan. He had seen the cruelty and Mahadaji had warned him.
}

Sambhaji's state of mind was such that on night of 20th November 1679, he slipped away from Mughal camp. Yesu Bai also slipped away with him in male attire. He had only 10 attendants with him. They rode hard and reached Bijapur the next day and were warmly received by the regent Masud.

Next day, when Dilir learnt on this on 21st November, he sent his agent to bribe Masaud. The agent reached Bijapur on 28th. Sambhaji got an inkling and on night of 30th November, slipped out from there too and met a body of cavalry which was sent by Shivaji , and he reached Panhala on 4th December 1679, and was safe now.

On the same day, Shivaji marched on another war from Bijapur taking cavalry of 18,000 with him, but that is not part of our discussion.

During this one year when Sambhaji had defected, lot of things happened. Aurangzeb had levied Jaziya and Shivaji had written that famous letter. And also fought wars alone.


I remember the last days of Akbar and trouble given by Salim, when i read about Shivaji and Sambhaji.


@Maddy.. I think the event of sending Sambhaji to Guru Ramdas happened somewhat early, around 1676. Here we are talking of December 1678.


Finally, coming to the main point.

1. From my reading, it was Yesu Bai who was with Sambhaji in this one year long defection. And she came back safely.

2. Sakhubai committed Sati at the Fort of Gwalior, when her husband, Mahadaji Nimbalkar, who was a Mughal general, died. I have not read that she was kept in life "imprisonment" by the Mughals. :)

I don't know if you are confusing Sakhubai with Sakwarbai. Sakwarbai Gaikwad was the wife of Shivaji. After the fall of Raigad in 1689, along with Yesu Bai and others, she was also captured and spent long years in Mughal custody.


Note :

For those joining the discussion late, can see this link. We discussed under what circumstances, Shivaji and Sai Bai got Sakhubai married to Mahadaji Nimbalkar, son of Bajaji Nimbalkar. I have read that Jija Bai was not in favor of this marriage due to the background of Mahadaji's father Bajaji (a convert) but on Shivaji's insistence and explanation she agreed.

https://www.indiaforums.com/forum/post/140209515

Originally posted by: RadhikaS0

Hi Everyone
Hi Radhika 😃 I am so glad to see your wonderfully written long post.  I hope you will become a regular member of PB forum. 
You have read my post about Shivaji Maharaj, he still lives in the heart of every Marathi manoos (person😆).  There are so many legends to look upto and be proud of.
Also there are so many well researched and written historical books to read and learn from.

I have taken time to soak in the highly detailed posts on this thread. Want to thank every one who has contributed to this awesome thread - your level of reading and understanding of Maratha history is laudable. I don't know many regions where  folks are so well-versed in and proud of their past! 

I have started getting an inkling of the vast ocean that Maratha history is. Hope to learn more from all of you. 😊

The show is doing well and the cast is doing a brilliant job of bringing those historical legends to life with their natural acting. The sets, the costumes and the jewelry - everything is quite realistically recreated. More importantly, going by this thread, the AUTHENTICITY of the story line is IMPRESSIVE. Hopefully, this will continue beyond 6 months. 

I can't say I have perfectly understood everything here. Quite messed up about who's who. So many Sambhajis, Shivajis etc. Hopefully this will get cleared up as time passes. 😊

I am sharing a few doubts here. If anyone could explain these, it would be lovely. 

P. Triambak I believe is the advisor to Tararani. He is shown in the serial to be interested in ensuring that Tararani's son Shivaji Raje doesn't learn anything much and remains ignorant of state affairs / administration. Possibly he believes this way the power will stay in his hands and Raje will be a puppet king. How true is this depiction?

I think someone well versed in history of that time is better equipped to answer. 
My interpretation of his character in serial is he is just jealous of Balaji's rising status and the trust Tararani has started putting in Balaji.  There were scenes where Tararani and he were shown trying to teach Shiva Raje and his methods were totally unsuccessful!  So maybe he is trying to thwart Balaji rather than harm Shiva Raje.

Why did Shahaji Raje and his elder son Sambhaji not join Shivaji Maharaj in his campaign for Swarajya? Why did they stay in Bengaluru, away from it all? Shahaji had been in the service of the AdilShahi and NizamShahi before Shivaji came of age. Did he remain in their service later too? I read on this thread that he gave Adilshahi a free hand in dealing with Shivaji for conquering forts. Incredible! Why was Shahaji not with his son? Did he have misgivings about his capability to win Swarajya? Was he afraid of the vengeance of the muslim rulers in neighbouring kingdoms? 

What is the lifestory of Shivaji's elder brother? While we know about his step-brother, why is so little mentioned about his elder brother?

Why did Shahaji leave Jijabai behind? Why didnt he take her with him to Bengaluru?

Will reply to these 3 questions in a separate post (net slow).

If Shivaji Maharaj was upset with Netaji (?)'s shifting loyalty to the Mughals, how much more he would have been devastated when his own son Sambhaji shift his allegiance to them. Sambhaji's character is hard to understand. How he could join the ranks of the enemies of his father and he even led the enemy to the Maratha treasure! Even if he was a wayward youth, surely he should have had known better than to hand over the treasures of his kingdom on a platter to the Mughals? He redeemed himself after becoming the king, especially in his death, but Shivaji Maharaj was not around to see this change in him. He must have died a heartbroken man, wondering what would happen to his empire with one son highly temperamental and the other yet a child and far too many conniving queens and ministers. What things people do for power / throne 😕

In any empire, it's mostly just one king who reaches a pinnacle. After that, it's just  a matter of time before the downslide begins and lust for power not only breaks up the empire but the royal family too. 

The promise that Shahuji made to Aurangzeb that he would not let anything happen to the Mughal empire is just another example of the Hindu custom of being too noble / chivalrous for their own good. Why would anyone promise to safeguard the enemy empire when that enemy was hellbent on destroying his homeland? Was he so brain washed by the Mughals during his stay with them that he gave them so much consideration? Actually this mentality continues in India even today. It's an amazing thing that the Maratha empire grew to great proportions inspite of the various errors of judgement by different people in its history. Probably because the Mughals were themselves on a downswing with no great intellectual tacticians to lead them.

No doubt the promise Shahuji made to Aurangzeb was unbelievably short sighted and certainly not the one that Shahuji should have lived upto!  He was in captivity for years, his father Sambhaji Raje was brutally tortured and killed by Aurangzeb, surely any promise made should have been a political tool and not something to follow in reality after his freedom.

I guess Abhay can answer Shahuji's reasons better!

Radhika, Marathas might have been unorganized or rather in disarray after Sambhaji Raje's death and Shahuji's capture but there was one uniformity.  They all believed in Hindavi Swarajya - in Shivaji Maharaj's dream and each in their own way continued the fight.  There were periods where they were not paid salaries or there were setbacks, however this did not stop them.  In Balaji, Bajirao, Nanasaheb and later Madhavrao Peshwe they found able leaders to lead them.

If Mugals were on downswing them so were Marathas after Sambhaji Raje but they rose once again under Bajirao, because nobody stopped fighting.

The Maratha women deserve a thorough round of applause for being self-confident, sharp, and taking a keen interest in matters of the state. Some of them may have grey shades like Soyrabai but at least they were individuals with strong identities and minds of their own. Hopefully we will get to see each of these women in depth in the show, just as we can see Tarabai or Radhabai.