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Marathi_Mulgi

@Marathi_Mulgi

Rocker

+ 2

Posted: 8 years ago

#131

Originally posted by: MaddyO

OMG! There are actual 4 feet lizards around! Photo is scary I hope to never run into one! Even the normal wall lizard is Not a big fan of beetles also, they are ok as long as they don't suddenly decide to dive down! 😳😆
Glad Ghorpads are not extinct though. Thanks for sharing the article and story.

yeh we get feared with normal lizard😆😆

did u saw raja shivchhatrapati

they had shown that part

Edited by Marathi_Mulgi - 8 years ago

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MaddyO

@MaddyO

Sparkler

Posted: 8 years ago

#132

Originally posted by: Marathi_Mulgi

yeh we get feared with normal lizard😆😆
did u saw raja shivchhatrapati
they had shown that part

I know 😳 I had watched Raja Shivchhatrapati but don't remember this particular part in that.

BTW read in today Times of India about Delhi zoo losing 4 monitor lizards due to negligence. It seems they were hibernating in their cages and were not to be disturbed but some zoo workers pulled them out of cages and they died due to shock of that

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Abhay

@history_geek

Rocker

+ 5

Posted: 8 years ago

#133

Episode on 24th February 2017

Marriage of Shahu Ji and his sister / Cousins

Did not update much in between about the episodes as we had already discussed about the history part which was covered in the show till now.

Today, they had shown Aurangzeb planning marriage of Shahu ji. The politics is gaining ground now, in the show. After the marriage, Aurangzeb will open up negotiations for release of Shahu ji along with his son Kambaksh.

BTW, today happens to be the death anniversary (24 Feb 1674) of Pratap Rao Gujjar, the gallant general of Shivaji, about whom we discussed in previous pages. Link . And, it also happens to be the birth anniversary of Chatrapati Rajaram (24 Feb 1670). Along with this, it also happens to be the anniversary of the disastrous battle of Karnal (24 Feb 1739) when Nadir Shah of Iran routed the Mughal forces.

But for now.
I am writing few words about this marriage.

Shahu ji was married in Mughal custody. From what i have read, it was Zinat un Nissa Begum, daughter of Aurangzeb who made preparations for this wedding. I hope they bring her now. It was she who persuaded Aurangzeb to spend lavishly on this marriage. Shahu ji was like her son.

{ We have already discussed about Zinat Begum in earlier pages. Please refer to index 1 on page 1 to get links about her. Link }

2 suitable brides from Marathi families were selected and married to Shahu ji. However, a 3rd bride was also chosen but she is described to be an illegitimate wife & Shahu ji was most close to her and she was the boss (among the women) in the house hold of Shahu ji till the end.

Aurangzeb presented 3 swords as a marriage gift to him -

- a sword of Afzal Khan (he was killed by Shivaji, it is a famous episode)
- 'Bhavani' sword of Shivaji
- a gold hilted Mughal sword

In addition to the above, he gifted him 5 provinces of Deccan as Jaagir !

Few days after this, Aurangzeb also got the sister and 2 female cousins of Shahu ji married to 3 of his Mughal generals. The two cousins were daughters of Chatrapati Rajaram who fell into his custody after capture of Fort of Ginjee in 1698.

All strategic planning.

Last Few Updates :

- LAST DAYS OF AURANGZEB ; Mention of Shivaji in his Death Will (His Regret) ; Chauth and Sardeshmukhi : Link

- Nasir Jung & Monitor Lizards ; Second Sack of Surat by Shivaji : Link Pg 16

- Link to updates on Pg1 : Here

- Link to New forum thread : Victory of Peshwa Bajirao over Nasir Jung
- Direct Link to the Post : Click Here to Read

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Abhay

@history_geek

Rocker

+ 5

Posted: 8 years ago

#134

Originally posted by: Marathi_Mulgi

thanks for info n link wil check that
at thorle madhao rao time british approached for mumbai but he asked for imp place like mumbai in their land in return!
its madhao rao peshawe II means sawai madhao rao?

Yes it is Sawai Madhav Rao or Peshwa Madhav Rao II Narayan as i mentioned above. He was the posthumous son of Narayan Rao Peshwa.

PS : I have to reply to some other comments too on this thread. Please bear with my slow response rate. :)

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MaddyO

@MaddyO

Sparkler

Posted: 8 years ago

#135

Originally posted by: history_geek

Episode on 24th February 2017

Marriage of Shahu Ji and his sister / Cousins

Did not update much in between about the episodes as we had already discussed about the history part which was covered in the show till now.

Today, they had shown Aurangzeb planning marriage of Shahu ji. The politics is gaining ground now, in the show. After the marriage, Aurangzeb will open up negotiations for release of Shahu ji along with his son Kambaksh.

BTW, today happens to be the death anniversary (24 Feb 1674) of Pratap Rao Gujjar, the gallant general of Shivaji, about whom we discussed in previous pages. Link . And, it also happens to be the birth anniversary of Chatrapati Rajaram (24 Feb 1670). Along with this, it also happens to be the anniversary of the disastrous battle of Karnal (24 Feb 1739) when Nadir Shah of Iran routed the Mughal forces.

But for now.
I am writing few words about this marriage.

Shahu ji was married in Mughal custody. From what i have read, it was Zinat un Nissa Begum, daughter of Aurangzeb who made preparations for this wedding. I hope they bring her now. It was she who persuaded Aurangzeb to spend lavishly on this marriage. Shahu ji was like her son.

{ We have already discussed about Zinat Begum in earlier pages. Please refer to index 1 on page 1 to get links about her. Link }

2 suitable brides from Marathi families were selected and married to Shahu ji. However, a 3rd bride was also chosen but she is described to be an illegitimate wife & Shahu ji was most close to her and she was the boss (among the women) in the house hold of Shahu ji till the end.

Aurangzeb presented 3 swords as a marriage gift to him -

- a sword of Afzal Khan (he was killed by Shivaji, it is a famous episode)
- 'Bhavani' sword of Shivaji
- a gold hilted Mughal sword

In addition to the above, he gifted him 5 provinces of Deccan as Jaagir !

Few days after this, Aurangzeb also got the sister and 2 female cousins of Shahu ji married to 3 of his Mughal generals. The two cousins were daughters of Chatrapati Rajaram who fell into his custody after capture of Fort of Ginjee in 1698.

All strategic planning.

Last Few Updates :

- LAST DAYS OF AURANGZEB ; Mention of Shivaji in his Death Will (His Regret) ; Chauth and Sardeshmukhi : Link

- Nasir Jung & Monitor Lizards ; Second Sack of Surat by Shivaji : Link Pg 16

- Link to updates on Pg1 : Here

- Link to New forum thread : Victory of Peshwa Bajirao over Nasir Jung
- Direct Link to the Post : Click Here to Read

Abhay thanks for so promptly sharing the information about Shahuji's wedding-S! Aurangzeb got him married to not 2 but 3! What is the deal with 3rd illegitimate wife?!

So did these wives of Shahuji had much say in the politics? Were they supportive of Mugals as Aurangzeb was plotting? Doubtful but asking cos they showed Aurangzeb plotting this today so asking.

Sambhaji and Yesubai's first child was a daughter. You have written Aurangzeb got a sister and 2 cousins of Shahuji married. Was this sister the first born daughter of Sambhaji Maharaj?
Rajaram's daughters - so were they daughters of Tararani or other wives? Tararani has not mentioned anything about her daughters in PB.

How did Bhavani sword fall in the hands of Aurangzeb? Was it left back in Agra?

Pranam to Rajaram Maharaj and Prataprao Gujar.

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Abhay

@history_geek

Rocker

+ 5

Posted: 8 years ago

#136

Originally posted by: MaddyO

Abhay thanks for so promptly sharing the information about Shahuji's wedding-S! Aurangzeb got him married to not 2 but 3! What is the deal with 3rd illegitimate wife?!

So did these wives of Shahuji had much say in the politics? Were they supportive of Mugals as Aurangzeb was plotting? Doubtful but asking cos they showed Aurangzeb plotting this today so asking.

Sambhaji and Yesubai's first child was a daughter. You have written Aurangzeb got a sister and 2 cousins of Shahuji married. Was this sister the first born daughter of Sambhaji Maharaj?
Rajaram's daughters - so were they daughters of Tararani or other wives? Tararani has not mentioned anything about her daughters in PB.

How did Bhavani sword fall in the hands of Aurangzeb? Was it left back in Agra?

Pranam to Rajaram Maharaj and Prataprao Gujar.

Maddy,

Aurangzeb wanted to see the bride & groom after the marriage. But it was contrary to the Maratha custom. But Aurangzeb was adamant.

Hence, Yesu Bai & Zinat un Nissa Begum , as per a well thought out plan, sent a (servant) girl called Veer Bai (i can't remember her name clearly) dressed as a bride along with Shahu Ji to receive Aurangzeb's "blessings". She was called illegitimate as she was not legally married but stayed with him as a wife. Shahu ji became very fond of her.

No.
These wives were not supportive of the Mughals. Aurangzeb only wanted to get Shahuji married in order to make him succumb to pleasures of women. This was done to divert his mind & distract him from his continuous never ending demand for Swarajya.

Yes, the sister of Shahuji whom Aurangzeb got married was the first daughter of Chatrapati Sambhaji Maharaj. She was also in captivity along with her brother Shahuji and mother Yesu Bai since 1689 when Sambhaji was tortured and executed. Her name was Bhavani Bai. She was married off to Mohammad Muhi-ud-din. He was the son of Sikandar Adil Shah - the last Sultan of Bijapur.

The other 2 princess' were the daughters of Chatrapati Rajaram Maharaj. These were probably not the daughters of Tara Rani Saheb or Janki Bai. They were the daughters of other wives of Rajaram.

I have already explained this in previous pages on this thread but mentioning again to maintain continuity in narration. After the fall of Gingee Fort in 1698, after a long siege by Mughals, 5 wives 3 sons and 2 daughters of Chatrapati Rajaram were captured.

One of the wives of Chatrapati Rajaram committed suicide by jumping from the top of the fort balcony. I have been told that the spot which was moistened by her blood & where she breathed her last is today revered and visited by women and celebrated as a sacred spot & pilgrimage. Do you have any information about this sacred spot ?

History tells us that she took the correct step by extinguishing her life ; for the future life led by the surviving Queens can not be described here.

So, these 2 princesses must be the daughters of the wives among these 4 surviving ones. These 2 princesses were married off to Shamsher Beg (son of Aghar Khan) and Raja Neknam of Deogarh (a Gond Muslim convert).

You see, how well Aurangzeb was placing his cards. He played till his very end. He was a great politician.

This probably explains another point. Why Shahu never allowed Bajirao / Balaji , to go for complete annihilation of the Mughals. Though, he was free but his mother Yesu Bai was still a captive till 1719 (as we discussed) until Balaji rescued her ; and his sisters were married off to the enemies. In fact, this is discussed in good details in Peshwa papers. We shall discuss it someday.

PS : Since, you seem interested. :) Hence here is some more information. Jyotaji Keskar and Moropant Subnis were deputed by Aurangzeb to find the brides for Shahu ji. The 2 brides were Ambika Bai (daughter of Bahadurji Jadhav, son of the celebrated Rustom Rao Jadhav of Sindkhed) & Savitra Bai ( daughter of Sinde family of Kanherkhed).

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Rashmi

@goofyCat

Sparkler

Posted: 8 years ago

#137

Abhay,

This Aurangzeb planning for Shahu Raje's marriage part caught my attention in the episode and what a pleasant surprise to find a post from you on the same (though I am late to read it).

So, Bhavani Talwar was in custody of Aurangzeb?? That's so unfortunate!
@Maddy, I don't think it would have happened during the Agra incident. Shivaji Maharaj fought many battles after that (using Bhavani most probably). As far as I remember he didn't carry the sword over Agra. He escaped from there without any of his belongings. His men who escaped after him probably could bring few of his things back, but that didn't include any weapons, for obvious reasons. It might have been captured by Mughals from Raigad Fort after they conquered the fort.

Did Sambhaji Raje had any other (legitimate) wife than Yesu Bai? I don't remember reading about any.

Another thing that I was waiting for to be referenced in our discussions- the happenings after Aurangzeb's death sometime in 1708-09. The Maratha dynasty was not in very strong state after the war of 27 years, they had lost a significant part of the empire though they kept fighting till the end. It would have been such a tough task to collect the pieces and build it again to a strong empire that literally was spread over a huge part of India. Sadly, I am aware of very few things around that era of 1710-1730, and would love to know more about it. Ofcourse, as and when referenced, because I know it is again a very complicated state of affairs, with many intertwined historical events ;) Hopefully the show will throw some light on it as well!

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Abhay

@history_geek

Rocker

+ 5

Posted: 8 years ago

#138

Originally posted by: _goofyCat_
Abhay,

This Aurangzeb planning for Shahu Raje's marriage part caught my attention in the episode and what a pleasant surprise to find a post from you on the same (though I am late to read it).

So, Bhavani Talwar was in custody of Aurangzeb?? That's so unfortunate!
@Maddy, I don't think it would have happened during the Agra incident. Shivaji Maharaj fought many battles after that (using Bhavani most probably). As far as I remember he didn't carry the sword over Agra. He escaped from there without any of his belongings. His men who escaped after him probably could bring few of his things back, but that didn't include any weapons, for obvious reasons. It might have been captured by Mughals from Raigad Fort after they conquered the fort.

Did Sambhaji Raje had any other (legitimate) wife than Yesu Bai? I don't remember reading about any.

Another thing that I was waiting for to be referenced in our discussions- the happenings after Aurangzeb's death sometime in 1708-09. The Maratha dynasty was not in very strong state after the war of 27 years, they had lost a significant part of the empire though they kept fighting till the end. It would have been such a tough task to collect the pieces and build it again to a strong empire that literally was spread over a huge part of India. Sadly, I am aware of very few things around that era of 1710-1730, and would love to know more about it. Ofcourse, as and when referenced, because I know it is again a very complicated state of affairs, with many intertwined historical events ;) Hopefully the show will throw some light on it as well!

Rashmi,

Yes, Bhavani Bai was under Aurangzeb's custody along with her brother, mother and others. There were around 300 people of repute who had fallen into hands of Aurangzeb. We do not even know about the fate of all of them.

I missed replying to Maddy about Bhavani sword. I am also of the opinion that this sword fell into hands of Aurangzeb after fall of Raigad. From what i remember, when Shivaji went to Agra, he did not carry much weapons. I think this was also a condition which was mutually agreed upon. I will mention them in the letters relating to Shivaji, Raja Jai Singh and Aurangzeb later.

Even i have not known of any other wife of Sambhaji other than Yesu Bai.

As far as events about this time period is concerned, we all shall see it along with the show. As you rightly remarked, it is all very complex and lot of events are inter related. The information which i have posted above is not from any particular or a single source, but a collection of data which i always note in my diary while reading ; developed over a long period.

I am sure they will give due regard and time to all these important historical anecdotes. Till now they have not let us down.

Initially, I was a bit concerned as i thought they might skip showing Zinat un Nissa or the marriage of Shahu and the consequent role of Kambaksh. But it is going on very well. Going by the standards of what happens in the "historicals" on TV , this show is actually going great and a welcome change.

We can at least discuss the history part here after watching the dramatized version on screen. This is the real fun.

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@old_charm

Stunner

Posted: 8 years ago

#139

I have one question , did shahuji returned back only after aurangzeb's death .

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MaddyO

@MaddyO

Sparkler

Posted: 8 years ago

#140

Originally posted by: history_geek

Yes it is Sawai Madhav Rao or Peshwa Madhav Rao II Narayan as i mentioned above. He was the posthumous son of Narayan Rao Peshwa.

PS : I have to reply to some other comments too on this thread. Please bear with my slow response rate. :)

What a stunning painting . Every face - expression and all details including the mattress, accessories, silver utensils, luster of pearls and diamonds. Almost feel like can feel the fabrics!

Abhay immediately in front of Savai Madhavrao Peshwe those 2 silver things seem to be "attardani" and "gulabdani" - traditional Maharashtrian things which are usually found in households even today. Attardani is used to apply attar/perfume via scented cotton and gulabdani has perfumed water which is sprinkled on guests. Also they seem to be wearing "bhikbali" in ears - which is also very traditional of those days. I think Balaji is shown wearing something different in PB not these bhikbalis.

Abhay, this painting and the one Shruti had shared of Balaji Ballal, both are so different from the Mugal era paintings of Akbar. These are far more impressive detailed.

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