Is it Empowerment?

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MagadhSundari

@MagadhSundari

Sparkler

+ 4

Posted: 8 years ago

Hi all - Lola here. I've been watching the show and so far I have mixed feelings. There are moments that give me chills and (more) moments that make me roll my eyes. For better or for worse, the show's definitely been on my mind a lot. I've also been skimming through clips/written updates of Paramavatar Shri Krishna on &TV (which most of you seem to have skipped, given how empty the forum is, and you're probably better off for it). In this week's episodes, their Vishnu and Lakshmi brought up a theme that was quite similar to the one that is the focus of this show - that of self-sufficiency. Just as the first 4 episodes have shown Mahadev repeatedly tell Parvati that she's on her own and assure other Gods/Goddesses that "naari shanka tyaag de to swayam Shankar ban jaati hai", the Krishna show also had their Vishnu assuring Lakshmi that not only Krishna, but all human beings have unlimited power within them and need no divine assistance or revelations to save themselves from the likes of Putna. Just like this show's Parvati, that show's Krishna is unaware of his own divinity.

I have no issue with that whole concept of self-discovery with a God/Goddess's journey being a representation of our own, accurate or inaccurate as it may be. My question/concern is around the message they're giving. If the Goddess/God at the center of these series represent ordinary human beings, is it really true that every woman and and every toddler has the ability to physically diffuse a threat that is maybe 2-10 times their size? Does it really empower ordinary people to be told that you don't need any help, just fight back and get yourself out of this? Does it not invite victim-blaming in cases when fighting back doesn't work and the perpetrator overpowers you anyway? Showing Lakshmi and the other devis as mute victims in need of the pep talk to turn them into warriors too made it seem like this was the message they wanted to give - that if you can't/don't fight back, it's your fault.

I am fully on board with the idea of making people aware that God dwells within them as do his gifts of untapped, unimaginable spiritual strength and virtues. However, I think that lumping this together with physical strength is unrealistic and can even lead to dangerous misinterpretation. Yes, everyone regardless of age or gender should learn how to defend themselves, but when something bad happens, there's no 100% guarantee that those techniques will help, and when they don't, it's definitely not the victim's fault. Crimes against women and abductions of children don't happen because the victims/survivors aren't fighting back or fighting back correctly. The onus is not on them to change, it's on the criminals. Empowerment is in society banding together and telling the survivors that whether or not they fight back, what happens to them is not their fault - and not letting the perpetrators get away with it.

I think it's important for these shows not to be so blunt in their messaging and invite misconceptions. Not every woman can manifest a tiger-woman like Narsimhi when she's at risk, and that she can't does not make whatever ensues her fault. The journey to self-discovery and self-empowerment can be shown in a better way that is more applicable to people's lives.

Curious to know what you guys think - is this empowerment, and if not, how can a balance be struck between showing true empowerment and acknowledging and respecting the realities and limitations we face as ordinary human beings?

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Frequent Posters

1123225

Hibernated

Posted: 8 years ago

Hi Lola

Priyamvada here.

I believe it is part of empowerment.

One of the things women need to do is understand we have our own agency. Unfortunately, even feminists seem to ask men to do the rescuing. Pass more laws against rape (oh, yeah, because rapists totally obey laws)! Women-only seats in political bodies! If we get drunk, we expect the police to make sure the criminals stay away! While these are important, more important will be to make sure women are capable of handling themselves in a crisis.

The show is going a little overboard with the physical depictions, but I think they have the right idea. Stop waiting for a rescue which might never arrive. Take responsibility for yourself.

Edited by HearMeRoar - 8 years ago

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proteeti

@sambhavami

Stunner

+ 12

Posted: 8 years ago

You're absolutely right there! Not every girl can be MahaKaali!

And subtlety of course is wanted. Shouting 'equality' in one's ears isn't going to help. If MahaKaali is shown empowered they HAVE to show Parvati's strength. After all she is source of MahaKaali's energy!

And this is a point even Janudi keeps emphasizing; that even Seeta was empowered. In her own quiet way, but she was.

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chemgirl

@chemgirl

Inactive

+ 2

Posted: 8 years ago

Hi Lola

Empowerment has different aspects. You are right about the fact that every woman cannot be Kali, supremely strong with divine powers. Maybe women do not have the physical strength to always fight back. But I don't think it's that aspect of Kali , the ability to fight back and destroy enemies alone that the show considers as empowerment.

Empowerment could also be in the sense of confidence. There are problems which a woman can handle if she has the confidence to. If a woman can stand up for herself maybe atleast a few around her will stand by her. Also there is the issue of a woman's identity. Maybe the makers through Kali want to show that there is more to a woman than being a daughter, wife or sister.

In the first episode we see Gauri who is very content with the identity of being Mahadev's ardhangini. Thats not wrong and is perhaps necessary. But even when Mahadev himself tells her that she is his shakti and assures her that she can handle the situation she is not convinced. Even when her brother tells her that the warrior is close to her , Parvati being convinced that she is merely a human doesn't even think it could be she herself. Even when Devi Lakshmi reminds her that she is Mahadev's wife, she refuses to even think that she is the warrior. Only when both her brother and husband refuse to help her and she sees her loved ones being slain does she fight back.

Perhaps it's that aspect of a woman's strength and abiliy that the makers mean to bring out.

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MsChanadlerBong

@MsChanadlerBong

Rocker

+ 5

Posted: 8 years ago

Great topic. I agree with the point that all girls/women are not Mahakali/Durga. Even when I see such scenes or movies where women fight for what's right, I always wonder, can I do that? I mean its only in movies that happen. In reality obviously we all wouldn't think about taking chances with people twice powerful as us or for the matter of fact even with people with lesser strength. Why? Cause that's how it is. We know we aren't really Devis though we all promote feminism and shout out "fight your battles!" Etc, we don really believe it full heartily. We still are scared of the consequences. Only some dare to fight back and among those too only some succeed. But the question is, why in the first place are we having this problem? Simple answer : because we have accepted the fact that we aren't Durga or Kali. Just ordinary women who can't really battle against the world.

The shows aren't trying to say that if you don't fight, you are at fault instead it is conveying the message that everyone should try at least. Some may be harmed more than already is but sooner or later if everyone starts fighting back, one day we wouldn't need to fight back. You don't need to have the strength to kill thousands of demons, just fight back in the way you can, stop what you can.

That way sooner or later you wouldn't need to remind everyone how they have Devi inside them.

The message is simple, "don't run for others for help." That depends on your situation and how can you handle it. Empowerment is defined as "to give authority/strength to someone to do something". Doesn't matter even it's for a simple refusal that the encouragement is needed.

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MsChanadlerBong

@MsChanadlerBong

Rocker

+ 5

Posted: 8 years ago

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar
Hi Lola

Priyamvada here.

I believe it is part of empowerment.

One of the things women need to do is understand we have our own agency. Unfortunately, even feminists seem to ask men to do the rescuing. Pass more laws against rape (oh, yeah, because rapists totally obey laws)! Women-only seats in political bodies! If we get drunk, we expect the police to make sure the criminals stay away! While these are important, more important will be to make sure women are capable of handling themselves in a crisis.

The show is going a little overboard with the physical depictions, but I think they have the right idea. Stop waiting for a rescue which might never arrive. Take responsibility for yourself.

Totally agree with you! We can't really depend on anyone else for help.

It's not only that we have to stop being dependent on others for security but also stop blaming ourselves for the sins of others. Cause of rape=the type of clothes that the girl wore! I mean W*F is that 😡 😳 There are girls all over the world who wear clothes not of their choice but rather forced, they can't go out at night or go somewhere out alone, why? Cause we are just trying to protect ourselves from evil. I mean how long will we do that? Hide ourselves, protect from evil while evil evades everything else!

It's high time we do something. And I think the show is simply trying to say that too. Stop hiding behind your fathers/brothers/husbands cause they wouldn't be able to protect you always. And what will you do then?

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Janaki

@RamKiSeeta

Achiever

+ 6

Posted: 8 years ago

Well said, Lola. 👏 This is an issue I feel so many new mythos nowadays have. Their message comes off too harshly, painting the world as black or white. They either show women as a fierce amazoness or a submissive weak doormat. It's important to teach people, men and women, to pick their battles, especially in dangerous situations. Of course it's important to fight back, most definitely, but 'fighting back' isn't always meant in the physical sense. Sometimes, fighting back could mean fighting for your rights as well as other women by bringing a chance to society. Sometimes fighting back could mean fighting your perpetrator in court and seeing justice done to them. Fighting back doesn't always mean fight back physically. In fact, sometimes that's not a smart thing to do because it could result in your death, like in the case of mugging. They always recommend you throw your purse at a mugger and run away, because they're more interested in your money than you. Struggling for your purse would be a foolish decision with dire consequences. In the case of rape, there really isn't much a woman can do to 'fight back'. Things like rape and assault are beyond their control. Telling a woman she has control and that she can prevent it by 'fighting back' is giving her a portion of the blame when she's not able to. What if she was given a date rape drug? What if she was hit over the head and became unconscious? Or...what if she was simply physically weaker than the rapist and wasn't able to fight back? Because let's face it, not every woman is able to fight back physically, and it doesn't make her an less strong of a woman. She's not weak if she can't fight back.

A better message would be to tell a woman that she is strong and worthy of respect no matter what, and that she is fully capable of protecting herself, but when she wants and needs it, it's totally okay to ask for help. It's okay to want assistance in dangerous situations. It's okay to want someone to protect her once in a while. That doesn't make her weak. That just makes her human. A woman is totally within her right to go out at night and enjoy her life, but that doesn't mean she needs to be by herself to prove herself as a strong woman. Parents tell their children to walk in groups during nighttime, even their boys, because being by yourself tends to make you vulnerable when most people are at home sleeping. So go out, have fun, but be careful, take precautions, and always ask for help if you're scared. No man or woman has anything to prove to anyone. Strength comes from within, not in physical capabilities.

I would prefer new mythos to encourage women to become more independent by learning how they can protect themselves, but to also teach women that depending on their loved ones isn't wrong, and it's totally within their right to ask for help when they want it. After marriage, a wife and husband are a team. While they live their own lives and fight their own battles, they also support each other when the other is struggling.

Lord Shiva would never refuse to help Parvathi just to teach her to fight for herself. That's indeed a dangerous message to teach women, and also men. If people actually believed this, the decent men out there would think they should turn a blind eye when a woman wants help, because she supposedly needs to protect herself when someone assaults her.

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1123225

Hibernated

Posted: 8 years ago

@janaki

I have to disagree. I don't see any woman in today's society refusing to accept help. OTOH, I see plenty very reluctant to stand up for themselves. And plenty actually vocalizing that its the men's responsibility. Women do have their own agency, to a great extent, but they don't seem to use it.

In a work place, why do women not speak up, instead of only clamoring at the government level for equal pay? Demanding more policing is fine, but at least know how to defend yourself in a pinch. Things like that.

It's not victim blaming to say we have to look at all angles to solve a problem. Any group of young women going out at night should be told that one person should remain sober to look out for her friends? Is that victim blaming or taking charge of yourself? Bad things can still happen, but it's important we do our parts.

As for the show, they're trying to make it socially relevant, not just the same tale of Shiva and Parvati. If it's being viewed for the story telling genius there really is nothing to watch with this particular one. Except perhaps, the actors. But if it's for the message I think they're doing the right thing. AIthough they could learn how to be a little more subtle.😆

Edited by HearMeRoar - 8 years ago

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Janaki

@RamKiSeeta

Achiever

+ 6

Posted: 8 years ago

Originally posted by: HearMeRoar
@janaki

I have to disagree. I don't see any woman in today's society refusing to accept help. OTOH, I see plenty very reluctant to stand up for themselves. And plenty actually vocalizing that its the men's responsibility. Women do have their own agency, to a great extent, but they don't seem to use it.

In a work place, why do women not speak up, instead of only clamoring at the government level for equal pay? Demanding more policing is fine, but at least know how to defend yourself in a pinch. Things like that.

It's not victim blaming to say we have to look at all angles to solve a problem. Any group of young women going out at night should be told that one person should remain sober to look out for her friends? Is that victim blaming or taking charge of yourself? Bad things can still happen, but it's important we do our parts.

As for the show, they're trying to make it socially relevant, not just the same tale of Shiva and Parvati. If it's being viewed for the story telling genius there really is nothing to watch with this particular one. Except perhaps, the actors. But if it's for the message I think they're doing the right thing. AIthough they could learn how to be a little more subtle.😆

Even I'm mostly saying the same thing.

All I'm saying is that Mahakali is overdoing the message. Lord Shiva telling Parvathi to stick up for herself is one thing, but telling her he ain't gonna help her and to fend for herself is dangerous.

When I go out, of course I'm going to protect myself as best as I can, but if I ask a guy for help because I'm scared, I sure as hell hope he won't refuse me and tell me to stick up for myself. If I'm asking for help, it's because I truly need it and don't feel safe. In such a situation, I wouldn't want someone to tell me to fend for myself.

It becomes victim blaming when you tell a woman she can always protect herself if she only tries, which is what Mahakali is saying. It's not possible to always protect ourselves, and thus when we don't, and we're overpowered and assault happens, it sends women the message that it's their fault they didn't fight hard enough.

Edited by ..RamKiJanaki.. - 8 years ago

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2filmy

@2filmy

Trailblazer

Posted: 8 years ago

#10

Hello Lola
Excellent Post
I think it is a part of Women Empowerment
These are words to boost your confidence
Every woman cannot be as strong as Maha Kaali
But she needs to have confidence in herself
Confidence gives immense inner strength
But yes the makers can be a bit more subtle
While giving the message

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