Devotee v/s Scholar - Page 2

Originally posted by: SahasranamaM

That's correct. B/w , I would like to narrate a similar story as that of Visrom's. I remember reading it during my childhood.

Once Krishna asked to Arjuna: "Who is my biggest devotee in this world?"
Arjuna: That's obviously myself!! Where can you find someone else who is more devoted to you?
Krishna: No Arjuna! It is a poor farmer who works day to night in the paddy fields to earn hid daily bread.
Arjuna: I don't believe this Krishna. Shall we meet him?

They both visited the poor Brahmin farmer in disguise, who was busy at the paddy field but his lips were always chanting mantras. Other than the sickle, Arjuna found him carrying a sword/dagger with him. Surprised Arjuna asked him.."Why should you carry this sword? Being a farmer, how come you have enemies?"

Farmer: I have to kill 4 people. (I forgot the first 2 and his reasons).
The 3rd person I need to kill is Draupadi.
Arjuna: Draupadi...?? Why do you want to kill Draupadi?
Farmer: She always used to call/invite MY Krishna to solve all her problems.
Arjuna: And the 4th?
Farmer: That is Arjuna.
Arjuna: Arjuna..??!!! Why should you kill him?
Farmer: Didn't he make Krishna his charioteer? I will slice him to pieces if he ever comes in front of me..!

Later Krishna asked Arjuna: Now do you thing you are the biggest devotee of Krishna?
Arjuna: No..and sorry Krishna..!


I haven't seen this story anywhere else. But I can never justify this story or moral which Krishna seemed to have taught Arjuna. I can only find pure selfishness and possessiveness in this Brahmin.

Originally posted by: SahasranamaM

Bhakti, I googled and found that bakwaas story. Please see the link below. It's a complete version.
The difference is that basically he is a pious soul, he doesn't even want to hurt a grass..! But he is adamant to kill Draupadi, Arjuna, Narada and Prahlada.

Krishna could have used some other ways..!

Just imagine..how many stories we have heard in Panchanthathra/Jataka tales and how they portray characters filled will jealousy/ possessiveness?

http://www.srichinmoylibrary.com/books/0022/18/6/index.html

Originally posted by: SahasranamaM

Wah - that is bit of a creepy story, yaar! I do see the meaning of it, but the brahmin sounds so violent with his knife wanting to slice everyone to pieces! How gruesome! He is blessed to love Krishna but I think he too needs to make the acquaintance of Buddh-ji and ahimsa!

Bhakti, I googled and found that bakwaas story. Please see the link below. It's a complete version.
The difference is that basically he is a pious soul, he doesn't even want to hurt a grass..! But he is adamant to kill Draupadi, Arjuna, Narada and Prahlada.

Krishna could have used some other ways..!

Just imagine..how many stories we have heard in Panchanthathra/Jataka tales and how they portray characters filled will jealousy/ possessiveness?

http://www.srichinmoylibrary.com/books/0022/18/6/index.html

Meanwhile, I had another experience with one of my superiors who is very religious and devoted.

Once, I was working on a big project that requires extra care, concentration and 200% presence of mind. Everything from our side was perfect and was waiting for final approvals from the legal authorities. But they didn't approve it immediately (everything depends on their mood here. If they feel like passing it, they will do it even if it contains errors. And the vice versa) which was full out of our control.

But I was even more shocked when my boss asked me:

" This is why I always used to say you must think of god before doing something important"

I knew very well what god meant to me and how much confidence I have in his love towards me. But it doesn't mean I have appointed him as my clerk who makes every official transactions smoother.
( This was what exactly I had thought the very moment but just kept mum..after all, he is my boss).

He continued: Who is your favorite god? "Srirama"
He thought for a while: Don't you worship Ganesha?

"I do love and pray to all deities from our books. But my personal favorite is Srirama"

"Hmm..all your thoughts are wrong. Listen and give some care when someone who is more experienced than you gives an advise. It seems Ganesha has some disfavour towards you which you must rectify by giving more offerings and prayers to him. If he is well with you, how come there is always a block for all your actions?

I really don't know what to take and what not to take from such advises..!!! When he told this to me, the first think that came to my mind was my own picture studying in 1st standard, narrating the story of Ganesha's feast at Kubera's palace to my classmates during a free period..!

Since I wasn't over excited, I didn't allow this thought to come out as words. But I know what he would have replied if I had : No need to be an exhibitionist by narrating your past glories. Also, this shows you only read and advise others. You never take it into practice..!!"

Originally posted by: SahasranamaM

Meanwhile, I had another experience with one of my superiors who is very religious and devoted.

Once, I was working on a big project that requires extra care, concentration and 200% presence of mind. Everything from our side was perfect and was waiting for final approvals from the legal authorities. But they didn't approve it immediately (everything depends on their mood here. If they feel like passing it, they will do it even if it contains errors. And the vice versa) which was full out of our control.

But I was even more shocked when my boss asked me:

" This is why I always used to say you must think of god before doing something important"

I knew very well what god meant to me and how much confidence I have in his love towards me. But it doesn't mean I have appointed him as my clerk who makes every official transactions smoother.
( This was what exactly I had thought the very moment but just kept mum..after all, he is my boss).

He continued: Who is your favorite god? "Srirama"
He thought for a while: Don't you worship Ganesha?

"I do love and pray to all deities from our books. But my personal favorite is Srirama"

"Hmm..all your thoughts are wrong. Listen and give some care when someone who is more experienced than you gives an advise. It seems Ganesha has some disfavour towards you which you must rectify by giving more offerings and prayers to him. If he is well with you, how come there is always a block for all your actions?

I really don't know what to take and what not to take from such advises..!!! When he told this to me, the first think that came to my mind was my own picture studying in 1st standard, narrating the story of Ganesha's feast at Kubera's palace to my classmates during a free period..!

Since I wasn't over excited, I didn't allow this thought to come out as words. But I know what he would have replied if I had : No need to be an exhibitionist by narrating your past glories. Also, this shows you only read and advise others. You never take it into practice..!!

Originally posted by: bhakti2

Your boss 😲! His heart sounds good - but he sounds scary too!😆

I would not agree him, though (easy for me to say I know as he is not my boss!) - because who can know the mind of God? Many things that do not seem at first to be going auspiciously turn out to have deeper reasons for going as they do. Like you, I am Sri Ram bhakt - and he always explains this hai na - ki even Kaikeyi's actions were not what they seemed on the surface. Everything that went so horribly wrong had some reason of destiny for doing so.

Not everything in life goes our way - I would not think that meant that God was angry with us individually - we are so small compared to the enormous leela of this world.

And I totally agree to you 100% - Ganeshji or any God is not our personal clerk, as you say, hai na? You have said it so well. It seems to me always as if we can lean on him, love him, feel his love in return in our lives and all around us...but to ask him repeatedly for the little detail of our lives to go just the way we want them each time? Why do we think we should always know how things should go? And shouldn't we have to solve problems ourselves?

Ha...ha...exactly..!! U have given the perfect tag...! He sounds good in mind..but scary too..!😆

Originally posted by: SahasranamaM

So what's your take on it? A ritualistic devotee or a conservative pauranic scholar?

As far as visiting temples goes, it is unfortunate that today most temples (local as well as prominent) are teeming with crowds with loudspeakers jarring outside and vendors hawking their juices, fruit slices, etc. Add to it the heat and sweat and the long queue which moves like a snail, and you are already wondering when you can come out. Admittedly this does little to promote the spiritual feeling.

Dear Varaali,

Thanks for the detailed reply. 👏

I think I mislead you people with the title. As explained in the intro post, for the time being, let us forget about the REAL DEVOTEE which a REAL SCHOLAR can only understand. I too agree that doing your duty is the best devotion regardless of whom you worship or even if you don't worship anybody. But I was referring to them, the majority, who believe that HIS GOD will be happy if he prays daily, his god will be happier if he performs rituals and daily offerings and his god will be the happiest if he forbids himself from worshiping other gods (pluralizing though a REAL SCHOLAR believes in GOD instead of GODS).

Regarding the incident with my boss, I would like to view it in two perspectives.

1. We all know that Vighneshwara is the one who eradicates 'vighna'. And it is commonly believed that satisfying him will clear all our vighnas. Of course, I do pray to Vighneshwara to clear all blocks from my path. But that is something which we can only pray/wish. It is under his disposal whether to clear it now or increase it's intensity for the time being. After all, all good, bitter and bad phases of life depend on may other factors too..hai naa..?? But it shouldn't be the in the manner where we bribe/flatter Ganesha and then he becomes liable to clear all our obstacles. If that was the case, then devotees like Sudama,Surdas, Mirabai etc wouldn't have to suffer throughout their lives (though they considered it as events which made them more closer to their idols). Corollarily, Ganesha shouldn't be displeased with someone who is more attached to another deity (even though we have read such stories, those seems just stories).

2. I feel that beliefs and concepts inherent in a person is something very sensitive. After all, belief is the crux of the existence of an individual- a driving force which leads him to proceed further in the day to day life. Be a theist, atheist, agonist..his strength lies in the depth of his belief, whatever he believe. Thus, such an interrogation seems a bit annoying. Since I am a Hindu and I love all our deities, it didn't touch my mind (even though it did affected me psychologically at least for the time being). But imagine a conservative Xtian or Muslim in my place. And if someone raise such a question, what would he/she feel? I am sure that at least 8/10 people would take it in a negative way that "He is questioning our beliefs. As if we (their respective religion), who don't worship Ganesha are flooded with blocks and obstacles in their day to day life" . And you may imagine the situation if such a question was raised against an atheist..!! What I have felt is that majority of the theists among us have a tendency to generalize the bhakti content of others with theirs ( I have experienced n number of situations). And with such parameters, they will jump into their own conclusions. It can also be in the form of inducing his beliefs and prayer styles.


However, I am not trying to initiate that worshiping Ganesha wouldn't bring any fortune to his hardcore devotees. He may and he will (that is what I would like to believe). I have also my own ways of worshiping Ganesha (in fact rather than prayers and demands, I used to show my love towards him by reading and reciting his stories again and again, draw/collect his pictures/posters and so on). But I don't believe that he would be displeased and will play pranks on a fellow human being who is more attached to another Deva thereby giving a second consideration only to Ganesha.

Sometimes I think it might be for better if we perceive ourselves as already at one with God (in whatever way you might see God). You do not work to propitiate that which already flows within you. The problem, I think, is in how far you run AWAY...not how hard you try to move TOWARD. If something is already there, you cannot approach it further but you can distance from it hai na?