Why does God turn a blind eye ? - Page 11

Originally posted by: K.Universe.

Originally posted by: K.Universe.

If you must know, I am looking to take this from "everything" to "nothing". But that's besides the current argument. In the current thread, I am looking to pin it all on a supreme being.

K, just like you can't get something from nothing, you can not get everything to nothing. How is that even possible, how would you even define "nothing", while we are surrounded by matter, radiation, energy all around us. Lets say we ignore all that, and still try to create a perfect cold isolated environment, we still wouldn't have "nothing" cuase we continuously exist in curved space-time, meaning that if we want to truly achieve a state of physical nothingness, we cannot have anything in our universe at all!

As always we derive from the topic :-)

Originally posted by: 13thwish

Tempted to play with the idea of 'everything' and 'nothing' and relate it to the current thread from a philosophical standpoint..

You say you wish to pin it 'all' on a supreme being therefore assuming no responsibility oneself..

I maintain that Creator n creation (or subject n object) are one.. Under that premise, 'all' passed on responsibility then becomes one's own by default.. So all or none, theoretically, they are interchangeable by flipping the perspective alone.. Simply put, two sides of the same coin..

How about I reply by saying that mysticism is definitely not my forte, therefore I categorically deny typing the above quoted text, thus placing the blame of the spiritual kibitz enclosed in the above quote squarely on ANOTHER separate and distinct individual (you in this case) and extending the base case of "oh, now, there appears to be more than me than just me in this universe" to an inductive step, by mathematical induction?

Originally posted by: -Aarya-

K, just like you can't get something from nothing, you can not get everything to nothing. How is that even possible, how would you even define "nothing", while we are surrounded by matter, radiation, energy all around us. Lets say we ignore all that, and still try to create a perfect cold isolated environment, we still wouldn't have "nothing" cuase we continuously exist in curved space-time, meaning that if we want to truly achieve a state of physical nothingness, we cannot have anything in our universe at all!

As always we derive from the topic :-)

I hope it doesn't sound condescending when I say " not bad at all!". Really.

You are right, we will be deviating, but to answer your question, my nothingness wouldn't have any dimensions either. I think.

Originally posted by: K.Universe.

So you are saying there is a "disconnect" between us (the humans), and the rest of the Creation, and by extension, the Creator, as far as pain/suffering is concerned.

Actually, there isnt. Only we haven't realised. And that makes a lot of difference, a difference that makes us look upon our creator and his creation as two different entities. Realisation comes when we... IDK 😆 Hope you can get me, although I make no sense. I cannot articulate my convictions/beliefs... feels dumb.

How do you think that disconnect happened?

Because of the human MIND. But it is all so contradictory. The mind is the creation as well! But it still sees itself APART from the life, universe etc.(cannot ascertain as to when/WHY this began) That according to me looks very wrong. THUS, we're here complaining of the "problems".

Alternatively, why do you think that we have a sense of right and wrong, an experience of pain, when nothing else seemingly does?

WE have a sense of "right" and "wrong" because such and such affect OUR lives. A problem is a hurdle to a smooth journey. Man never wants any hurdles. Having been living normally for many years since birth, and one day a man experiences pain - say in his hand, he would look at it with sadness. Pains are like thunderbolts. They strike a person ~ out of the blue. And man always has a plan, a roadmap, and wishes to walk that road the way he wants. Have you ever seen any man who floats about, like a leaf on a river stream, allowing life to take him whereever and however it goes?


Negligible is not the same as nothing.It is still something, mathematically speaking.The precision and scale of the decimal type is yet to be determined but it is not Zero.

I believe pain exists as a reminder, as a memory, to serve us "better" when dealing with similar situations in future. To oversimplify: I touched a hot pan, I burned my fingers, I will remember the pain as a synaptic connection and I will never do it again.

Thats not pain. 😆 What about cancer patients, who experience excruciating pain? How does that serve as any reminder/purpose?
Pain, however it is, exists just because of nervous systems... and that's as far as we know. We dont know how a rock feels when it is exploded ~ It too is part of the same creation we are! Pain isnt pain, we experience it, FEEL it, cannot bear it, are too attached to the worldly(including our body with nerves) thus we suffer. But universe knows no 'pain'/pleasure.

It is only our BRAIN that tells us not to touch the hot pan again. A person with damaged nerves, in that affected area atleast... can he feel anything at all?

And 'hot pan' isnt HOT. It is hot to us, to our bodies that can take certain degrees of heat.


Regarding the intelligence of the Creator, it is not a question of more for Him because that is the absolute. The point I tried to raise was, the Creation itself appears flawed, imperfect, and so He should have backed off till He is ready to build a "better" one :)

Again, it is US - a small spec of an entity in the ginormous creation that decide it is flawed? 😛 I say we ought to be grateful to the existence, for the pleasures and also the "experiences" of pain that we get to witness through these bodies. But, I somehow cannot do that as much as I try :(

If Microsoft is not ready to build Windows 8, it shouldn't go ahead and build it and later release it to all; it should first sleep on the idea till it irons out the kinks:))

K Universe, could you give your views on "Karma and Reincarnation" topic if you dont mind? Would love to read 'em. :)

@K.Universe

I get your point, But I'm thinking along the lines if God if exists,why he cannot interfere in our problems.I'm trying to reason with the inability of the Creator to address and solve the problems his creations are facing .The reason's for why the life need to move forward on it's own even if some Divine being created it.

According to you, life should be without pain,hardships and suffering.You want life to be free from every struggle that looks wrong in your conscience.As you were saying, your conscience is also the part of creation.Hence you feel a need for the Creator to address all problems that looks wrong in your conscience.

On the other hand, I don't wish for a life free from struggles.I'd rather live through them.I may feel like reducing their magnitude once a while depending on the situation,but no I don't fancy a life free all pain and hardships(how terribly boring such a life would be!).I don't even consider struggle as something negative in the first place.And that's my conscience.

So if your conscience is making you think struggles are to be stopped,mine is making me think they are not to be stopped.If your conscience is a part of creation,so is mine.If creator should address your concerns and rectify the 'problems'(struggles) you found in his creation, he has equal responsibility not to rectify it because I think the opposite.We both are his creation so should be equal in his eyes.We are not dealing with problems to just inclusive to either of us;We are taking about problems of life in general.So there's only one solution.Either make all problems go away or let them remain.Whom side do you think God should take?

There are many such situations.Soldiers and terrorists are fighting over a piece of land.Both of their consciences are making them think they are right in what they are doing and the other party is wrong.Both are a part of same Creation.The argument that since basic set of values and conduct are against terrorists,so creator also should side with them is baseless because the same logic can be applied to terrorist's existence as well.Terrorists also operate on a set of rules and values,however immoral it may seem to us.Yet,terrorists and their rules are very much existing.If you think the values on which a soldier fight for his land is a part of the creation and so that's how things should work out,then set of rules terrorists have made up is also the part of same Creation.In this case also,whose side should the Creator should take?

There lies the problem.The reason for incompatibility between all theories regarding God and his creations is dualism.Everything exists in pairs.Light-Dark,Good-Bad,Right-Wrong etc etc.And each such pair is the part of the same creation so should be of equal value in the Creator's eyes.So if God were to interfere,then it would mean him choosing one out of the pair which makes the whole creation theory go for a toss.

Originally posted by: K.Universe.

How about I reply by saying that mysticism is definitely not my forte, therefore I categorically deny typing the above quoted text, thus placing the blame of the spiritual kibitz enclosed in the above quote squarely on ANOTHER separate and distinct individual (you in this case) and extending the base case of "oh, now, there appears to be more than me than just me in this universe" to an inductive step, by mathematical induction?

because we have not built the bhavya ram mandir yet at ayodhya.

mandir wahin banayenge.

sab bolo siyavara ram ki JAI!

This thread is taking more time than I bargained for.

Originally posted by: Angel-likeDevil

K Universe, could you give your views on "Karma and Reincarnation" topic if you dont mind? Would love to read 'em. :)

I did on multiple occasions. Also got into little skirmishes with members like Quixotic5.

In no particular order of importance, my thoughts on those poorly defined "concepts":

- I think they fly against facts, science, logic, reasoning, heck even basic education.
- have zero observational evidence
- what goes around doesn't come around. The "around" is almost infinite space-time (and expanding as we speak)
- if anyone "experiences" the what goes around comes around part, then either that's a happenstance or at best a coincidence
- humans came much after earth formed and was teeming with life. the life that came before humans did nothing in terms of justifying reward/punishment.
- given the negligible size of humanity compared to the universe, it is asinine to think that "laws" have been formed keeping us in mind
- I wish they would stop dragging Newton's name into this, already
- I am too busy to mention more

.

Originally posted by: QuietlyLoud

There lies the problem.The reason for incompatibility between all theories regarding God and his creations is dualism.Everything exists in pairs.Light-Dark,Good-Bad,Right-Wrong etc etc.And each such pair is the part of the same creation so should be of equal value in the Creator's eyes.So if God were to interfere,then it would mean him choosing one out of the pair which makes the whole creation theory go for a toss

.

But choices were indeed made.

For instance, while for almost every particle, there is an antiparticle, there exists an asymmetry between matter and antimatter. We somehow ended up with more matter in the universe. If they were in identical proportions, we wouldn't be here. The baryon asymmetry is one of the biggest puzzles of Physics.

Too many such events occurred leading up to this point to make a few think that "care" was taken from the beginning so life could evolve, earth being in a Goldilocks zone counted as one such fortuitous eventuality . Whether events were herded or not is up to an individual to believe.