Job Reservations - Is it time to do away - Page 2

Originally posted by: mist

Rindam, well articulated indeed but your last comment on the beds and food threw me off 😊
Well considering that we are talking of the possibly the third generation that is now taking benefit of these reforms, what is the pain that is left to assuage?
I find it difficult to accept the analogy. Whatever extreme oppression the backward classes faced in the pre independance era certainly does not exist now. We have not eradicated casteism but this distinction that some members of 'upper class' communities still bear will hold against all - irrespective of them being educated, employed, successful/illiterate, poor.
To cure this pain once and for all we need a social reformation. Support in the form of reservation in education can just be , as u described, a toolset to equip them to make their own destinies.

I see what you are saying mist. My analogy was not thoroughly thought out I guess😆, what i was thinking was the whole idea behind the help being provided for years is because of the poor treatment of some folk. Now the whole idea is that they were treated shabbily, in fact the truth is that they still are in many areas. I have seen it with my own eyes. This should go away, let us raise a whole generation of people who dont have the concept of caste at all.

Now thanks to reservations, your child asks you which caste he belongs to in 12 std you and lo and behold you have inflicted this disease on him or her. No disease no need of cure or placebo, and yeah I agree with you it has been a long time indeed to make peace😕

Originally posted by: Signora2

Reservation by its very nature encourages mediocrity and institutions and professions of higher learning should be kept away.

you hit the nail on the head. 👏 Mediocrity is indeed the bane of our educated youth.

Originally posted by: Jatayu

Rather we had our own time tested system of reservation.

I think this system should be replaced with a new system that actually targets the children when they are young. Send them all to school and make them work hard and make them study hard, give them a sound primary education, build their fundamentals with good teachers who are paid well. Divert the money spent on paperwork recording caste and religion and dividing people on paying teachers and providing education.

Yes the reservation system is quite old and it has shown no results despite all the time it has been given to show its social miracles. It has done little that benefits the deserving masses, in fact it has exploited the dream of social justice for a long time. And if social equality and justice are never going to happen and never going to be a reality then why even bother with any system at all. And if they are a possibility even a distant one then let us try with something new that atleast glimmers a hope, not with a demoralising system such as this that has time and again nipped as a yound bud, the thoughts of help and security for those that need it most and also for those that deserve it the most. It doesnt even allow those that are most capable to take on the responsibility. All it does is waste some more time and some more money and some more opportunities.

And the constitution is made for the people, and can be ammended if need be by a vote.

Originally posted by: Rindam

Ithink this system should be replaced with a new system that actually targets the children when they are young.

Originally posted by: Rindam

Yes the reservation system is quite old and it has shown no results despite all the time it has been given to show its social miracles. It has done little that benefits the deserving masses

I don't believe in reservations. I believe we should come up with a new system or idea that targets the tribal boy from his childhood, that gives him a good primary education so he can apply to all the schools engineering or otherwise and get there on the basis of his own merit. Then he has the power to choose as well. If we reserve a seat for him today, he probably wont make that good of an engineer and his children will expect the same.

Yes there are few that benefitted, some of my friends from school as well are secure now only because of reservation, it is not wrong us trying to help them get ahead in their life but I dont agree with the whole philosophy of reservation. My earlier posts in this debate kind of reflected on why-

I have one such example, from the north eastern states, tribal classified areas, a girl who studied with me in one of the premier schools in India throughout, failed her 12 std two times and yet got into medical college without a problem. Her brother went to St.Stephens which is one of the best as well, at the time anyways, and her sister is an IAS, both parents are in the IAS field. it took her 8.5 years to graduate from med school- how much money does this cost the government to tag her along for 3 more years and pay the subsidies. All this when her father can afford to send her to Harvard maybe, only she would never get in on the basis of her merit. This is one example, now its not a small number of people who actually have this advantage or use it.

And why seperate people on the basis of caste or religion why is a poor forward caste boy, someone I know personally any less deserving of benefits than the tribal boy. They both are equally backward socially. This boy unfortunately almost didnt register for the final exams because he didnt have Rs.70 to pay for examination fees and was too embarrased to ask his friends😭. My heart goes out to such people.

Let's not make what is already a sad situation worse.

On an emotional note, if reservation cannot and absolutely must not go away, let's make sure all the truly backward people get it.

And on a more hard talk (kind of) note, even if they are backward how does that make them a better engineer of doctor. To get into a school or college one must have the necesary qualifications. One doesnt look at the caste of a doctor when they go for surgery, they look at his track record, his skill. How many of us would agree to go see only a tribal doctor or only a backward class doctor? Very few, we want to best for our own treatment regardless of class.

Originally posted by: Rindam

I don't believe in reservations. I believe we should come up with a new system or idea that targets the tribal boy from his childhood

Originally posted by: Rindam

On an emotional note, if reservation cannot and absolutely must not go away, let's make sure all the truly backward people get it.

Originally posted by: Jatayu

So you support increased spending in tribal/backward areas so that they can get proper schooling anf collegeing .... isn't that a different form of reservation?
No, I dont think developing a sound primary education system is a form of reservation. Giving someone education and literacy just like health benefits is not reservation. I am only thinking of reservation as it is spoken of in the Indian context. reserving spots for a person on a particular reason.

Neither I am suggesting this education is open only for tribal folks or only for forward caste folks, its open for all, whoever needs to go should go. However expensive it might be to develop this sytem I believe it will pay off in the long run.

My views exactly. We need to make the method more efficient, not abolish it because of some aberrations in it.

My views such as these stem from ONE reason alone. After so much of appeasement if reservations are removed, there will be chaos on the roads of India. People die pointlessly.

In such a situation some students with greater merit can just leave the ridiculousness of the system behind and go to everywhere else but India to prove our merit. I guess there is more appreciation and motivation, just a tad bit more everywhere else.

Finally, you mentioned Harvard. See the basis of admission into these premier universities is MONEY. However high one may score in entrance tests, unless a one can pay for oneself, it's zilch.

So the "reservation" in this scenario is economic might and NOT merit.

The admission into the premier institues is NOT money. This idea is typically based because 5% of the ivy league universities have rich kids? What about the rest of the 95%, interantional students like myself are the leading example, who dont have this money to pay, dont have the opportunity to study back home because we are forward caste. No, a lot of students work hard, take scholarships and loans, study 18 hrs a day to get it and spend 18 years of our lives paying off the loans. And as I know a lot of my friends who studied at Harvard took several loans and are still paying them off working hard. On average to go to Harvard med school and paying the loans off there takes about 11 years of medical practice if you are a general practice person.

So whatever means I am paying for my education actually is something that I am responsible and accountable for, not the government, it's my money and I am responsible for it.