Aratai Arangam-Pudusa/Payaisa-Theme-3pg11

Namaskaram , Vannakam and Hello To all the Tamiz Makkas,

         Me and Alli Rani ( Meli) wanted to do this some time ago, but becoz we were super sombayry we didnot do it earlier😆. Anyways we are here now. As the name indicates this is Aratai Arangam where we are going to be debating about Old songs vs New Songs. The teams are

Old team: (1972-1990)
Rojapoooo, Fluidd, Jagdu, Jay, Kavi, Jas, Vinu

New team: (1991-till date)
Giri, Caryn. Karthikka, Nethra, Usha, Pokkiri, Madhu

 

Here is the link for the old thread

http://www.india-forums.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=830890&T PN=4

This Debate is gonna go til this friday(as per alli rani's instructions), It wil have 4 rounds , The first round is intro round, where one team h as already posted all their songs, then from there on We will come up with themes, I have all the themes ready, I just need a green signal from the Viewbie before I go ahead

All the participants are requested to post their debate issues here, if you have any ?s PM me, as Meli is busy with other things 😳

Regards

Anju

Check for theme -1 in Page 4

 

Edited by basanthi - 16 years ago

OLD SONGS POSTED

 

Originally posted by: rojapoooo

Topic: Lyrics in Tamil songs -
old vs new - which can you appreciate more and why?

Good morning/evening Ladies and Gentle men. It gives
me great pleasure to make the opening statement for
this online debate. On behalf of Jas , our team leader
and on behalf of my fellow team mates, Kavi, Fluidd,
Vinu, Jay and Jagdu, I extend a warm welcome to one
and all.

Kannile enna undu kangal than ariyum
Kallile eeram undu kangala ariyum?
Yen manam ennavenru ennai yanri
Yarukku theriyum?

Neruppenru sonnal neerilum anaiyum
Neer enru sonnal neruppilum vegum
Naan konda neruppu anaikkinra neruppu
Yar anaipparo Iraivanin poruppu.

I would like to start our arguments with an absolutely
wonderful song - I am not going to name the lyricist
here - That might be getting personal and I always
believe that the lyrics will speak for themselves - they
need no support like big names or big banners etc, etc.,

The movie is "Aval oru Thodarkathai" - sung by the character
who burns herself for the sake of her family. The character is
a mystery to all around her and this song aptly describes her.

At this juncture, I have to acknowledge the music director's
part - we were allowed to appreciate the lyrics - what if he/she
had chosen to submerge the lyrics by some loud incongruous
music score??

Coming back to the lyrics - her countenance totally masks her
inner turmoil but the lyrics of this song express her hidden
feelings in such a way that even a layman can perceive her
sorrow. She has no clue as to what future holds for her. She
leaves it to destiny/God. She sings this when she has to sacrifice
her love for the sake of her young widowed sister - Kallile
eeram undu, Kangalaa ariyum?? so true!!!

For our part, we shall only talk about how good the old songs
are -in terms of lyrics or music composition - we will not get in
to any kind of criticism about the opponent's beliefs. Our
selection of songs will speak for themselves. Sit back, relax
and tune your ears to some interesting arguments folks -
Old is gold.

 

Originally posted by: Fluidd

My Dear Friends,

Thanks a lot for everyone for providing this opportunity to me to talk about old song lyrics.

What is Song? What is the purpose of the song? Why it is has become so popular? How do you differentiate good song from other songs?

The song is the one which should convey good information to all kind of people with apt music. It can be classical, folk, rap, or nattupura paattu. Song is the convenient weapon to convey message to all ages.

When one listens to song, initially the music may be attractive, but after few years only LYRICS will stand in everyone's mind. The attraction towards music remains forever due to strength of the lyrics and meaning conveyed in the same. 

Coming to cinema songs: In cinema, the songs should convey not only message but also should describe whole story in a small and simple lines.

(Movie: Puthu Puthu Arthangal, 1989;  Song: Kalyana Maalai Kondaadum penne…)

  Vaalibangal oodum vayadhaga koodum             

  Aanalum anbu maaradhadhu                                

  Maalai idum sontham mudi poota bandham

  Piri vendra solla ariyaadhadhu

  Azhagaana manaivi anbaana thunaivi

  Amainthaale pear inbame

These lines convey the message how one married couple should lead a life and what is the meaning of the marriage. Next two lines describe the aim of the story too.

  Koovukindra kuyilai koodukul vaithu

  Paadenru sonnal paadathamma……

  Naal thoorum rasigan paaratum kalaigan

  Kaavalgal yena killaye ….

  Dhukam sila neram pongi varum poothum

  Makkal manam pole paaduven kanne

  Yenn soogam yennodu thaan

These lines exactly describe the entire story of the film. I am sure this will be easily identified and remembered by everyone from young generation to older generation.

Coming to another song 

(Movie: Moonram Pirai, 1983;   Song: Kanne Kalai Maane….)

  Kanne kalai mane Kanni mayil yena kannden unai naane   …….

decribes how he found one unmarried girl

   Oomai yendral oru vagai amaithi

   Yezhai yendral athil oru amaidhi……

These lines furnish what is the state of the girl and

   Kaadhal konde kanavinai valarthean

   Kanmani unai naan karuthinil niraithean

   Unnake uyir aanen, yennalum yenai nee maravathe

   Yeno theiyam sathi sedhathu

   Pethai pola vidhi seidhathu

describes the whole story, how he loves her and he can not live without her, but god has played in her life and fate has made her to suffer from short-term memory loss.

I will say some latest hit song and just give me the answer in film it has come without thinking even for a second.

  Manmadha raasa manmadha raasa kalli manasa killadhe……

Can any one will be able to provide lyrics immediately. No, b'cos even though the song is hit that is temporary hit. Every day new movie is coming and songs are getting hit in the screen. What is the position of the song after few years? The song which has very excellent lyrics only will stand in mind forever.

If the song lyrics contain some words like below which will stand in the mind of younger generations.

    Kalyaanam thaan kattikittu oodipoolama

    Illa oodi poiye kalyanam thaan kattikalama…

I am not criticizing any song, but one has to think how the younger and growing generation will be spoiled by thoughts from such songs.

There may exists many songs describing nature, love, affection, friendship, sorrow, nationality, etc… but which one remains in mind as ever green hits, the one which has good lyrics.

From all these I conclude that

Nenjil Nindravi

Ninaivoodu kalanthavai

Pazhamaiye yendrum Perumai

Athan varigalil ulla Arumai

Ketpatharkku yendrum puthumai.

Yenru koori vaipalithamaikku Nandri Nandri Nandri.

 

 

Originally posted by: Kavitha Ravi

My IF friends, herewith I am sharing some of my views and strong points in support of OLD songs in terms of some reply too.


Ilamai idho idho
Inimai idho idho
College-u teenaged pengal
Ellorum en meethu kangal

SAKKALAKALA VALLAVAN (1982)

(In his dreams!!! )

Now, what message is that song supposed to convey? That every teenage girl, who are innocent and pure, are eyeing this middle-aged Lothario and that is what "youth" and "enjoyment" is all about??

Yes; We accept this song does not convey anything, but you really tell the truth from your heart does this song is as bad as below two's!!!!

(Movie: 7G Rainbow Colony, 2004)


Naam vayadukku vandhom

Nam illamaikku vandhom

Intha 20 varudam ada veenai poonom

Ini kankalil yellam ilam pen mugam varum

Dhinam Kanavugal thaane nam unavai maarum


Nee Baby yenkirai

Pin baby kodurikai

Un vaarathai poi yada

Un vaazhai poi yada

Nee thottu thottu rasika

Pengal onnum oorga lethuda



(Movie: Boys, 2003)


yaarai kaettu endhan nenjil

idappakkam needhaan nuzhaindhaayoa

undhan uyiril undhan peyaril

valappakkam en peyar saerpaayoa


D-A-T-I-N-G


You and me were meant to be,

Yeah, I can clearly see

Dating is a Fantasy


We accept the fact that some not worth songs are also present in the old songs. Can anyone tell the percentage? If it is 80% good and 20% bad exist in old songs, it is just reverse with the new songs 80% bad and only 20% good. One had to accept the fact that more percentage of songs has more impact. Means it is self explanatory.


Kalyaanam thaan kattikittu oodipoolama
Illa oodi poiye kalyanam thaan kattikalama…
were bad????

Have you heard of this song completely????? I mean full lyrics. Can you sing this song in your house when your kids are there? If so I am sure no one will support New songs.


Therefore if anything, it is the old songs that started the double meaning trend that seemed to have seized the Tamil community in a tight and relentless grip.


Old songs are also conveyed many uncountable good things, example


(Movie: Thoongathey Thambi Thoongathey, 1983)


Thoongathey Thambi Thoongathey

Ippa thoogiputtu pinnadi yengathe

Pattu kottai vaarthigali pottu

Namba porachiyaaru paadi vachu paattu

Kanna muzichukada neeyum itha kaetu


....


Naama muzhikitta irukum poothu kooda

thalaiyila molagai ariaka aalirukaan kooda


....


Thoogama ooduthada aaru

athu thoogiputta namaku yethu sooru

ooyama suthuthada boomi

athu ooi vedukum naal iruntha kaami


....


Karnana poola vazhthiruntha veeran

Kumba karnana pool paduthiruntha mooden

nee verana pool vazhanuda thambi

itha ooru ulamgam irukutha da unna nambi



This song has excellent lyrics. There is no need to think so much to pick such songs from old collections. But, one must think a lot to get such a song from new collections.


Immediate example:


(Movie: Unnal Muidyum Thambi, 1988)


Unnal mudiyum thambi thambi

Unakul irukum unnai nambi

Thoolai uyarthu thoogi

vizhu naattai yezhuppu

yethaiyum mudikum idayam unnidam kannden


Same movie has song which cares about this society.... No one can denies its beauty in lyrics and simplicity in expressing.


punjai undu nanjai undu pongivarum gangai undu

vanjam mattum innum ingu maaravilla - intha

baaradhaththil soaththuchchanda theeravilla

veedhikkoru katchiyundu saadhikkoru sangamundu

needhi solla mattum ingu naadhiyilla - manam

nimmadhiyaa vaazha oru naalumilla - idhu

naadaa illa verum kaadaa - idhaik

kaetka yaarum illa thoazhaa


Can you get some new song which has excellent lines like this? In old songs we can give many songs similar to these lines.


The song which speaks about women rights...


(Movie: Mandhil Urithi Vendum, 1987)


kannin maniye kannin maniye poaraattama -un

kanngaLum enna kaNgalil enna neeroattama

penn munnetram ellaam verum paechoduthaana -pazham

paattoduthaanaa athan yettoduthaana

naaL thoarum paadum oomaigaL thaana


saathirangaL penn inathai moodi maraithathamma -antha

aathirathil baarathikkum meesai thudithathamma

veedaalum penmai inge naadaalum kaalam vanthum

oomaigal polave endrum oayaamal kaNNeer sindhum

yaenendru kaetkathaan ippothu aaL illai

sama neethi kaetkindra sattangaL yaen illai

ulagamellaam vidintha pinnum

ungaLin iravugal vidiyavillai

.....


The above song explains the state of women in present situation. Even though the song came in 20th century, this holds good for 21st century too.


Is it possible to get huge collections of good songs with nice lyrics which reached people, means still remains as ever green hits??? The song which describes the nature


(Movie: Mullum Malarum, 1978)


Senthaazhal poovil vanthaadul thendral

Yen meedhu mooduthamma

Poovaasam media pooduthamma

Penn poola jaadai pesuthamma

Amma amma aanantham……


Azhaku mikutha rajakumari meha maaha pookiraal

Jarikai neliyum selai kondu malaiyai mooda paarkiral

Pallam silar ullam yena yaen padai thaan aandavan

Pattam thara thedukindren yenge antha naayagan


These are just two songs that I can remember off the cuff.


Yes, b'cos it is difficult to get good songs from new trend and bad songs from old trend. I totally agree that both good and bad are present in both the generation. The life itself is mixed of both but see the percentage of good and bad. In new songs, bad lyrics and bad collections are over riding the good thoughts that has to reach young generation.


From all above I strongly conclude that even though some good songs are present in new generation and bad songs are present in new generation, uncountable no of collections of old very good songs with excellent lyrics can not be compensated by new ones.

Edited by basanthi - 16 years ago

New Songs Posted

 

Originally posted by: giriadimai

Hello everyone,

I am under the impression that this debate is on a lighter topic & it is supposed to provide us some fun and laughter like the patti mandapams we are forced with, by all our tamil channels during festival holidays. So I give my opening speech in tamil. Hope you will bear with me for this😳😃.

Madhippirkuriya naduvar avargale ,anbana periyorgale thaimaargale, enadhu katchiyai serndha Caryn, Karthikka, Usha, Netra, Vani, Pokkri anaivarukkum en vanakkam. Kazhudhaikku theriyumo karpoora vaasanai enru solvaargal. Adhu pola, indha pattimandabathil ennai pudhiya padalgal enra thalaippil pesa utkaara vaithu vittargal. Kazhudaikku unmaiyileye karpooram vasanai pidikka theriyuma enru ennakku theriyadhu, aanal pudiya paadalkalin vaasanaiyai moppam pidithu , adhil moozghi muthu edukka vandhullen😃.

Indha ulagathil engum niranbi iruppadhu Anbu. Adharkku pala parimanangal undu – kaadhal , paasam, nesam. Kaadhalai arumaiyaga velipaduthum pala pudu paadalgal irukinrana.

     Let me tell you a situation, the lead pair gets married and on their nuptial night, they have a song and dance  sequence

         "Athikaai kaai kaai aalangai venilavae………..          

           kannikkaay aasaikkaay kaadhalkonda paavaikkaay
             angaekaay avaraikkaai mangai endhan koavaikkaay…"

(Please don't jump on me because this is from a movie of 1960s😉.  I am not trying to criticize the lyrics here, actually it creates a good ambience for the couple to get ready for the next day's kitchen duties).

But in such a situation, were he to sing

"Goly gundu kannu (edhir katchi thalaivar ennai parthu idhu pola paaratti irukiraar😆), kova pazha odhadu, paala pola pallu, padiya veccha vagidu, aalai thinnum kannam, alatikkaadha kai, solathatta kaalu, sokka vaikkum vaai…"

This song also has milk, vegetable , maize crop.. 😃Still, wouldn't the lady be floored? This is taken from a movie Emtan Magan.

Idhu ponra manadhai mayakka koodiya paadal varigalai kondadhu,  pudiya paadalgale enru koori , engal anikku valu serkka innum pala vaadhangalai en katchikaarargal veipaargal enbadhai ninaivupaduthi vaaippukku nanri koorugiren. Vanakkam😊

P.S – We also ensure that we will not hurt the feelings of anyone, but do everything within our means to justify our stand😃.

 

Originally posted by: Karthikka

To say expressly or by implication that only "old songs" have meaningful lyrics whereas the lyrics of new songs are shallow is fallacious at best and ignorant at worst. The years  that are being covered by the "Old" team have produced some of the ridiculous lyrics I have had the misfortune to hear. For example:

Ilamai idho idho

Inimai idho idho

College-u teenaged pengal

Ellorum en meethu kangal

SAKKALAKALA VALLAVAN (1982)

(In his dreams!!! 😆)

Now, what message is that song supposed to convey? That every teenage girl, who are  innocent and pure, are eyeing this middle-aged Lothario and that is what "youth" and "enjoyment" is all about?? That college girls, instead of concentrating on their studies, have their eyes on a tightly-clad in gold pants Kamal who would look more at home with the Village People (see http://www.stonewallvets.org/images/TheVillagePeople.jpg) and have another group of people 😉 having their kangal on his meethu. (I still have that image of Kamal in tight gold trousers in my mind. *shudders* I know that it has nothing to do with the debate, but ladies, I never recovered!!!)

That song is just one which I can remember off my head. There is one that has sent me into a mental fit when I recall the lyrics.

Orampo, orampo, rukumani vandhi varuthu

Vangadha vandiya tazhungutha

Vandhu inge vandanatha pannunguda

 And you thought

 Kalyaanam thaan kattikittu oodipoolama

 Illa oodi poiye kalyanam thaan kattikalama…

 were bad???? 😆😆

The Orampo song was the GENESIS of what is known as double entendre lyrics. In fact, it courted so much controversy because of the double meanings and caused discomfort and unhappiness. Therefore if anything, it is the old songs that started the double meaning trend that seemed to have seized the Tamil community in a tight and relentless grip.

Now, let's talk about new songs. Yes, there are duds but there are gems as well. One song that comes to my mind is Anjali Anjali from Duet (1994)....how the lyricist plays with the feminine name "Anjali" to produce so many meaningful connotations:

anjali anjali pushpaanjali
poovae un paadhaththil pushpaanjali
ponnae un peyarukku ponnaanjali
kannae un kuralukku geethaanjali
kan kaanaa azhaghirkku kavithaanjali

Oh my God, when I heard that song, I wished that my name was Anjali. 😳

Yenna thavam seyidhanai yashotha

Yenna thavam seyidhanai yashotha

Ingum nirai para brammam – amma

Yendarazhaikka

Yenna thavam seiyidhanai aaa

 Parthiban Kanavu (2003)

The song then goes on where Sneha's character describes in beautiful sentamizhil Srikanth's wacky identification of modern technological tools such as mobile phones. The awe-inspiring lyrics are used in a mesmerising manner, utilising delicious words in the  most poetic language in the world to convey a meaning on par with any of Kannadasan's creations. These are just two songs that I can remember off the cuff.

I reiterate my argument that it was the old songs that started the trend of double entendre lyrics. Orampo is one example. Let me not start on maman oru naal malligai poo koduthan from Rosappoo Ravikaikari. 😡

Thank you for reading my view. It is a rebuttal and an expression of my opinion. Please don't be offended by what I have said here. I would be also grateful if except for the lyrics, everything else is expressed in English. One of the reasons why it took me some time to respond is because Tanglish puts me off and I have a hard time reading the arguments.

Thank you. 😃

 

Edited by basanthi - 16 years ago

Thanks Anju - Pls move the post by Jas also -
she is our team leader and she has answered
Giri's post. thanks..

Aha ha ha now that we are allowed to refute..
Roja gets ready.... rubs her palms a la Nambiar...
I am coming coming coming..... will finish cooking
and will counter with renewed sakkarai pongal
induced energy..... 😃 😃

Originally posted by: rojapoooo

Thanks Anju - Pls move the post by Jas also -
she is our team leader and she has answered
Giri's post. thanks..

Aha ha ha now that we are allowed to refute..
Roja gets ready.... rubs her palms a la Nambiar...
I am coming coming coming..... will finish cooking
and will counter with renewed sakkarai pongal
induced energy..... 😃 😃

Karthikka awaits Roja's visit with much gusto....rubs her index finger against her nostrils ala Makkal Thilagam, Puratchi Thalaivar, MGR.

By the way, Kavita has just responded our argument, so it is our turn now, my dear. 😃

 

I am waiting for the other team. ipdi solli ennai oru poilitician range ku polamba vachittaangale. :)
kavi: 👍🏼

hey vinu, go ahead and post. the other team seems to having a ball sleeping. 😆 😆 😆

Hello madam Jaz.... we are busy and off sick okay. 😛 😉

Okay, managed to get something for my portion, although it is not lot (Giri, Kathi - sorry guys)

katrinnn mozhiyee (Mozhi 2006)

katrinnn mozhiyee...oliyyaaa? isaiyyaa?
poovinnn mozhiii....neerumma? mannumma?
kadalinnn mozhiii...alaiyyaAAaa? nuraiyyaaa?
kaadhalll mozhiii...vizhiyyaaAAaa? izdhalaaaa?

iyarkeyin mozhigal purinthu vidu
manitharin mozhigal thevai-illai
ithaiyathin mozhigal purinthu vidu
manitharikku mozhiye thevai-illaiiiiiii

katrinnn mozhiyee...oliyyaaa? isaiyyaa?
poovinnn mozhiii....neerumma? mannumma?

Here is one proof to say that latest songs have meanings. It has lovely music, slow but not dragging and have a very nice melody. Every line questions about each item of nature. What is wind's language? Is it sound or is it music. Then it is about flower, lover and love. Song of love. Beautiful and well said


Kalyanam thaan kaati ketu odipolamah……….

I don't find anything wrong in this song……….. afterall…… this is will what happens, if parents don't agree for their children to get married. So it is message to parents out there, if your children are in love, it is best for them to get married. Otherwise, they are young modern blood, and this is what will happen. Yethukum thunichutangal. 😉



Edited by Caryn - 16 years ago

My dear IF members. Sorry for the delay, annalum late vantalum, latesthah vandethun😆.

 

Oh dear, how can old songs be compared to new ones? No way. Im here today to strongly support new songs. Old songs are nice to hear but difficult to understand. They blend lots of words. We have to swim into their twisted words in order to understand what they are trying to say. But that's how it was in olden days. But can you write some twisted lyrics nowdays? People now prefer something they can understand face – straight to the point meaning. Now days songs are more easy to understand.

             Lets go back to some remarks from the opponents team. 20% good and 80% bad in new songs? Try a world vote and you will see the results of  90% good and 10% bad.

 

"Kalyanam than kattikettu oodipolama, Illa oodi poye kalyanam thaan kattikelama…" Well I would admit we can't sing these songs with kids around, but why this song when there are lots of other good songs can sang to the kids?

 

Movie : indra

hae achcham achcham illai ini adimai ennam illai
nam kaalam ingae koodippoachchu kanneer michchamillaiyae
hae achcham achcham illai ini adimai ennam illai
nam kaalam ingae koodippoachchu kanneer michchamillaiyae

kaalam maarippoachchu nam kanneer maarippoachchu
naalai nalla naalai enra nambikkai undaachchu
kaalam maarippoachchu nam kanneer maarippoachchu
naalai nalla naalai enra nambikkai undaachchu

I just can't stand when they say no is no excellent lyrics in new songs. What about this song for a mother ….

Movie : New

kaalaiyil dhinamum kaN vizhithaal
naan kai thozhum dhevadhai amma
anbendraalae amma, en thaay poal aagiduma (2)
imai poal iravum pagalum ennai kaatha annaiyae
un anbu paartha pinbu adhai vida vaanam bhoomi yaavum siRiyadhu

Here are more songs which contains excellent lyrics.

Movie : Autograph

Ovvoru pookalumey solkirathey
Vaazhvendraal poaraadum poarkalamey
Ovvoru vidiyalumey solkirathey
Iravaanaal paghal ondru vandhidumey
Nambikkai enbathu vaendum num vaazhvil
Latchiyam nichchayam vellum oru naalil
Maname oh maname nee maarividu
Malayoa athu paniyoa nee moadhi vidu

Ullam endrum eppoadhum
Udainthu poaghe koodaathu
Enne indhe vaazhkayendre
Ennam thoandre koodaathu
Endhe manithan nenjukkul
Kaayam illai sollungal
Kaalapoakil kaayamellaam
Marandhu poaghum maayangal

If you read through the whole song, you will have tears rolling down. Beautifully and well said about our believes and strength.

Not to forget, friendship. Here are few songs that well describe about friendship.

Movie : Priyamana Tholi

kaatrae poongaatrae oru kavidhai solvaayaa
viNNil sellaththaan un siRaghugal tharuvaayaa
thendralaai varukiraen pookkaLaai pookkavaa
vaarththaiyaay varughiraen paadalaay paadavaa

movie : April Madhatil

kanavugaL pookkum
aaNdugaL thodangum january maadhathil
kaadhalai solla thaedhigaL uNdu february maadhathil
thaervugaL vandhu thollai kodukkum march maadhathil
ellaa naaLum vidumuRai dhaanae april maadhathil

engoa piRandhu engoa vaLarndhu ingae ondraanoam
elloar veedum ondraay maaRa yaezhettu thaay kaNdoam
thalai koadha thoazhan vandhaan thuyarangaL oadipoagum
mudiyellaam naraikkum poadhum natpoadu naam vaazhvoam
kalloori thandha paadam dhaan kaalathaal maRandhu poagumae
kalloori natpu dhaan ada endrum maRakkadhey

I don't have to elaborate more on all the songs that I've given as its easy to understand and provides good meanings. I can go on hours and hours, pages by pages for the new song lyrics and meanings. Im stepping aside now and my fellow team members will be back with much stronger points. Thank you for giving me this opportunity.

netra😳

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by netra_rama - 16 years ago

aahaa....arumai....arumai....

what an idea for meli & basanthi. Good work basanthi....keep it up...

All the members from both sides....good luck....amazing effort is put in by all of you......