Nothing ever exists... ?

Angel-likeDevil thumbnail
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Posted: 6 years ago
I hope some of you DMers are here :(
So I was going through a website and came across this ---- 


The Problem of the Specious Present

Nihilism is the view that nothing exists. There are different kinds of nihilism; one can be a moral nihilist, for instance, holding that morality does not exist, or a religious nihilist, holding that God does not exist. The problem of the specious present supports a universal nihilism, the view that nothing whatsoever exists.

In order for something to exist it must have duration, it must exist for a certain amount of time. To say that something exists for no time at all, that at the very moment that it comes into existence it also passes out of it, is to say that it doesn't exist at all. Unicorns exist for no time at all; so do square circles. Things that exist for no time at all don't exist. In order for something to exist it must have duration.

The past and the future do not exist; they are not there, in the world. Perhaps the past once existed, and perhaps its effects can still be seen in the world today, but the past doesn't exist now; if it exists now, then where is it? And perhaps the future will exist one day, but it doesn't exist yet; again, if it exists now, then where is it? The past and the future clearly do not exist; the universe consists only of the gap between them, the present.

How large is the gap between the past and the future? What is the duration of the present? A minute? A second? A nano-second?

Clearly the present does not last as long as a minute. A minute consists of different temporal parts. First comes its beginning, then its middle, and then its end. Each of its parts occurs at a different time. If its beginning is present then its middle and end are future. If its middle is present, then its beginning is past and its end is future. If its end is present then its beginning and middle are past. If the present lasted as long as a minute then it would consist of past, present, and future elements, but that would be absurd; the present must be wholly present.

The same, though, could be said if the present were of shorter duration, lasting only a second, or even only a nano-second. In either case, the present would have temporal parts: a beginning, a middle, and an end. If its beginning were present then its middle and end would be future. If its middle were present, then its beginning would be past and its end would be future. If its end were present then its beginning and middle would be past. If the present has any duration at all then it consists of past, present, and future elements, but that, as I said before, would be absurd.

The present, then, has no duration; there is no gap between the past and the future. It has already been seen, though, that to say that something has no duration is to say that it does not exist. The present, then, like the past and the future, does not exist.

If there is neither past, nor present, nor future, though, then what is there? Nothing. Nothing exists at all. Universal nihilism is true.


sources - http://www.logicalparadoxes.info/specious-present/

http://listverse.com/2014/03/15/10-mind-bending-paradoxes-that-will-leave-you-stumped/



What do you guys think about it? 


I also recently read about some insights into Deja Vu, there were some that caught my attention -

1 - that deja vu could be a "glitch" in the reality.

2 - that time is non-linear and we could already have experienced something that comes back to us in the present in the form of deja vu. 

I also recently read(or maybe watched) somewhere that time is purely a man's creation and that there is no concept of time in universe.. 

So, this in combination with the paradox about "present" really got me thinking... what is time? After all this thinking even though I am convinced that there is indeed no concept of time - still there is something - we do have memory of the past, I am in this body and have grown old, seen life for so many "years" and still look forward to future... Surely, I cannot prove the time that has slipped - in that I cannot capture the moments of the past as they only exist in memory, they have slipped and cannot grasp what the future holds for me although I may imagine and plan, cannot even tell that this is present because as we utter, it is slipping into past... what is all this.. I guess we can never know, but anyway, let us wonder at the mystery of whatever "all this" is and share insights please ðŸ˜ƒ 


Edited by Angel-likeDevil - 6 years ago

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BirdieNumNum thumbnail
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Posted: 6 years ago

Originally posted by: Angel-likeDevil

...

I also recently read(or maybe watched) somewhere that time is purely a man's creation and that there is no concept of time in universe.. 

So, this in combination with the paradox about "present" really got me thinking... what is time? After all this thinking even though I am convinced that there is indeed no concept of time - still there is something - we do have memory of the past, I am in this body and have grown old, seen life for so many "years" and still look forward to future... Surely, I cannot prove the time that has slipped - in that I cannot capture the moments of the past as they only exist in memory, they have slipped and cannot grasp what the future holds for me although I may imagine and plan, cannot even tell that this is present because as we utter, it is slipping into past... what is all this.. I guess we can never know, but anyway, let us wonder at the mystery of whatever "all this" is and share insights please ðŸ˜ƒ 



great topic. :)

i think time is just a math construct. 

And reality is just discrete interactions between particles that our slow-poke minds experience as analog. ðŸ˜Š
K.Universe. thumbnail
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Posted: 6 years ago

Originally posted by: Angel-likeDevil

How large is the gap between the past and the future? What is the duration of the present? A minute? A second? A nano-second?




The answer is Planck Time! It's defined as the time a photon takes to cross a Planck length of distance.

We can divide distance or time or even matter only so much. Once we get to the Planck level, we are in the quantum realm where there's no order and no sense. Just particles colliding with one another. We are classical beings and our minds can only grasp the classical world. So, for instance, we don't understand the meaning of one particle colliding with another particle. We can only understand the meaning of a really big asteroid, or better still a planet, colliding with earth (Dear God! Can this happen any sooner?!)

On the subject itself - Something does exist absolutely! Now, whether it exists in space-time or not is debatable but that something is definitely aware of space, time and all the stuff within space-time. Even assuming space, time and all the stuff within space-time are "illusory", the fact that they exist in awareness is proof that something does exist.

I will try to get to the rest of it at a later point in time :)

Angel-likeDevil thumbnail
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Posted: 6 years ago
Thanks for the feedback guys! :)
...hmm, so 'something' does exist... and we are not supposed to know :p




K.Universe. thumbnail
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Posted: 6 years ago

Originally posted by: Angel-likeDevil



The past and the future do not exist; they are not there, in the world. Perhaps the past once existed, and perhaps its effects can still be seen in the world today, but the past doesn't exist now; if it exists now, then where is it?




Some of these questions are illogical because we have clear definitions of the past, present and future (again, we defined these words ourselves) and we are pitting one definition against another (with questions such as "where is the past now? where is the future now?") trying to determine which definition wins and consequently failing. Of course no definition wins, because they are all circular definitions. One defined in terms of another.

But if you really want to observe the past, all you have to do is look at the sun. It takes the light from the sun 8 minutes to get to earth so when you look up at sun, you are looking back in time.And the farther the star, the more time takes their light to get to earth.So, even though you may be looking at a far off star right about now, who knows if the star is still there in it's place?

It's possible all of the past, present and future exists all at once in space-time.


.EmptyEgo. thumbnail
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Posted: 6 years ago
this is good read 
will have to ponder 
Angel-likeDevil thumbnail
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Posted: 6 years ago

Originally posted by: K.Universe.




Some of these questions are illogical because we have clear definitions of the past, present and future (again, we defined these words ourselves) and we are pitting one definition against another (with questions such as "where is the past now? where is the future now?") trying to determine which definition wins and consequently failing. Of course no definition wins, because they are all circular definitions. One defined in terms of another.

But if you really want to observe the past, all you have to do is look at the sun. It takes the light from the sun 8 minutes to get to earth so when you look up at sun, you are looking back in time.And the farther the star, the more time takes their light to get to earth.So, even though you may be looking at a far off star right about now, who knows if the star is still there in it's place?

It's possible all of the past, present and future exists all at once in space-time.



K, hmm wonderful analysis... but I think the questions - "where is the past now", "where is the future now",  could mean that we cannot prove the minute or moment that has slipped... as in, we may make mental note or acknowledge pointing towards the sky in the east and say that, "sun was there at morning and now it is here". But can we prove the moment?? It's not about mental proof, or a photograph or video... it's about the moment that in a 'wholeness' cannot be proved.. maybe that is what the author means, and I too have this question.. :p


@bold --- K, I was watching some video where this same thought was put forth! YES YES, I agree.. past present future, even if they do exist are never linear it seems.. maybe it is all in our memory and there is no such thing as time.

Another daily life example K, we have no memory or knowledge of time when we sleep too.. sometimes, when we get a good night's sleep, it all seems like a minute or if I should say in better words - the time feels like it has lapsed, when we sleep... so maybe it is only our brain's work to make sense of our daily life rather than 'time'... but , THERE IS STILL SOMETHING ðŸ˜† :)




Angel-likeDevil thumbnail
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Posted: 6 years ago
or maybe time isn't exactly the way as we know it (or science)..
Maybe it is different in the universe... or maybe different in different spaces of the universe.. like in the movie Interstellar or even Inception :p I think I'm going all over the place, but they do say that life's a dream.. 


One thing is for sure, our perception of time is not the truth, maybe a truth on one or two planes of which our mind is capable of seeing/perceiving, but there is no absolute truth about time... 

In all this confusion, it cannot be denied that there is something :D


K.Universe. thumbnail
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Posted: 6 years ago

Originally posted by: Angel-likeDevil



I think I'm going all over the place,



Yes, you are.

I think of it this way: our existence spans two worlds. One classical and another quantum. Science showed us that the classical emerges from the quantum. However, science hasn't yet conclusively merged the two worlds with one theory.

Time, space, matter, forces et al exist in the classical world.At least, our senses Detect / feel them.

In the quantum world, it's just collisions. Our classical mind can't comprehend that world. Maybe some enlightened being can "hold" both the worlds at the same time, whatever that means. Not you, not me, not science. Not yet.

The "confusion" you are talking about, is referred to as "uncertainty" in the scientific world. it's not unique to any one of us.


K.Universe. thumbnail
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Posted: 6 years ago

Originally posted by: Angel-likeDevil



But can we prove the moment?? It's not about mental proof, or a photograph or video... it's about the moment that in a 'wholeness' cannot be proved.. maybe that is what the author means, and I too have this question.. :p




It depends on whether you think time is continuous or discrete.

Discrete data can be counted using whole integers. If time were discrete then it would be made of the so-called moments. First moment, second moment and so on.

Continuous data can have any numerical value. So for example, between the first moment and the second moment, we could have 1.1 moment, 1.11 moment, 1.111 moment , 1.1111 moment ...and so on.

You are unable to prove "moments" because space-time is treated as a continuum. For convenience, we stop at the Planck scale.