Valmiki vs Tulsidas

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Posted: 2013-08-07T16:03:29Z

 1. Difference between Maanas and Raamaayan and other Issues


Who defeated Raavan? Raavan couldn't be defeated even by Indra, Yam, Varun etc Devtaa, but still he was defeated by three people. Who were they?

1. Daitya Raaj Bali of  Rasaatal  from where he came back hurt. 

2. Haihaya Vanshee Raajaa Sahastra Baahu or Sahastraarjun of Mahishmatee Nagaree from where Maharshi Pulastya Jee freed him. Arjun releases him and declares him his friend

3. Vaanar Raaj Baali of Kishkindhaa Puree from where Raavan accepts his defeat then becomes his friend.

He extended friendship with Naag of Bhogvatee Nagaree and Raajaa Maandhaataa of Ayodhyaa also.


Why Prithvi is called Medinee?

In the beginning of the Creation, when only Brahmaa appeared from Vishnu's navel, two Asur, named Madhu and Kaitabh appeared from Vishnu's navel. Immediately they attacked Brahmaa Jee, but Vishnu killed them both soon. As they got killed the whole Prithvi was wet with their Med (flesh), that is why it is called Medinee.


Who informs Raavan about Panchvatee event?

(1) In Maanas - Shoorpankhaa goes to Raavan to inform him about Raam and Lakshman,  her insult and Khar and Dooshan's death

(2) In Raamaayan - Akampan, a spy of Raavan, goes to Raavan to inform only about Raam and Lakshman and killing of Khar, Dooshan, Trishiraa and their 14,000 army. Luckily Raavan did not ask the triggering point of this huge killing, otherwise Akampan had to tell about his own sister Shoorpankhaa's approach to Raam also. Then Raavan might kill him in rage. So he doesn't even mention about Shoorpankhaa's insult.
[Aranya Kaand]


Why Akampan advises Raavan to abduct Seetaa?

(1) In Maanas - Shoorpankhaa mentions about Seetaa that "They have a beautiful woman also with them", but of course she never asks him to abduct her.

(2) In Raamaayan, - Akampan advises Raavan to abduct Seetaa -

(a) Because he knows his Swaamee, that he was a womanizer, so he found a triggering point to kill Raam that He could not live without Her. 
(b) Looks like he is behaving saintly, so he is helping Raam to eliminate all Raakshas from the face of Prithvi by first bringing Seetaa to Lankaa, then forcing Raam to come to Lankaa to kill all Raakshas and take Seetaa with Him.


Did Shabaree offer self-bitten berries to Raam?

(1) Maanas doesn't mention this that Raam ate Shabaree's bitten fruits.

[3/74] See also end note there for detailed description
All people are normally told that Bhagvaan Raam ate Shabaree's bitten berries which she tasted before to check that they were sweet before offering them to Raam. Besides she used to do it everyday, because she did not know when Raam would come to her Aashram.  

So where is the scene of Raam eating fruits and eatables bitten and tasted by Shabaree here? Had this old woman not offer the fruits to the guests, or just said that they are available? We listen many stories and see many pictures telling that she gave many fruits after biting them with her own teeth to test the taste. All that is not in Vaalmeeki Raamaayan too. This amplification is from Padm Puraan.


Vyaakaran (grammar) is born from from Shiv's Damaroo.


How many Shaap to Raavan?

(1) Maanas doesn't mention any Shaap to Raavan. Rather it mentions about an Amrit Kund in his navel. And that is why Raam was unable to kill him by in spite of many attempts until Vibheeshan opened this secret to Raam

(2) Raamaayan describes many Shaap which indicated his death, on Raavan's head. 

1. First of all while he asked the Var for the first time from Brahmaa  Jee and then from Shiv Jee, he did not ask immortality from human beings and monkeys. Although it is not a Shaap but it is a means of of his death.

2. When he was coming from his global victory he abducted many women from from Devtaa, Daanav and Raajarshi etc, so they gave him Shaap, "Because you looked at other wives that is why you will die because of a woman".

3. One Shaap he got from Kuber's son Nalkoobar. When Raavan was going to win Chandramaa and rested on Kailaash Parvat in the night, he saw Rambhaa Apsaraa going to Nalkoobar and raped her. She told everything to Nalkoobar. Nalkoobar gave Shaap to Raavan, "If you will touch any woman forcefully, without her wish, your head will break in seven pieces." That is why he could not touch any woman without their wish, including Seetaa. And this saved many a women's Dharm living in Raavan's women's palaces.

4. One Shaap was from Shiv's Gan Nandee who was in Vaanar form. When Raavan saw him like this, he laughed at him. Nandee gave him Shaap, "You have laughed at my Vaanar form, you and all Raakshas will be killed by Vaanar only.

5. Once he saw a beautiful woman on a Parvat doing Tapasyaa, he requested her to marry him, but she refused to marry him saying that her father wanted her to marry to Vishnu so she will marry only Vishnu and that is why she was doing Tapasyaa. On forcing by Raavan she said, "I will reborn to be the cause of your death". So she was born as Seetaa.
[Uttar Kaand]


About Raam and Raavan's  Birth

(1) Maanas - Tulasee has listed several reasons as who were Raavan, Kumbhkarn and Vibheeshan, such as (1) story of Shaap to Vishnu's Paarshad Jaya and Vijaya, (2) Naarad's pride and his Shaap to Vishnu - Vishnu's birth as human being, help from monkeys and separation from His wife, (3) Story of Raajaa Prataap Bhaanu (4) Var to Aditi and Kashyap, (5) Var to Manu and Shatroopaa

(2) Raamaayan - But Vaalmeeki Jee does not recognize any of these reasons for Raam or Raavan's birth.


About Raam's Incarnation of Vishnu

(1) Maanas - Tulasee never forgets to remember Raam as Bhagvaan (God) even though, at the same time He is an ordinary human being and for the welfare of the world He is behaving like a human being.

(2) Raamaayan - Vaalmeeki's Raam has never recognized Himself as Bhagvaan (God). He has always considered Himself as a human being. In Uttar Kaand He asks Agastya Muni to tell Him as Who He is? 


Who threw Shakti to Lakshman?  [Lankaa Kaand]

(1) Maanas - says Meghnaad threw the Shakti on Lakshman and it made Him unconscious. Tulasee says - "Meghnaad was very happy to see Lakshman dead and he wanted to lift Him up but Lakshman was not only Lakshman, He was the incarnation of Shesh Jee who keeps the Prithvi on his head, how it was possible to lift Him even by thousands of Raakshas." 

Hanumaan had to go to Lankaa to bring Raakshas' Vaidya Sushen along with his house and he guided Hanumaan to bring some herbs from Himaalaya Parvat. On the way he met Bharat also. Later when Lakshman got all right Hanumaan took Sushen back as he brought him from there.

(2) Raamaayan - says that when Raavan came into battlefield to fight with Raam and Raam came forward to fight with Raavan , Lakshman asked permission to fight with him which Raam readily gave. Then Raavan threw Shakti at Lakshman. Of course it made Him unconscious, but Hanumaan never went to Lankaa to bring Sushen, rather Sugreev's father-in-law Sushen treated Him - of course through the herbs brought from Ksheer Saagar Parvat. And he doesn't meet even Bharat also.


Entering of Seetaa into Fire

[6]
(1) In Maanas - Tulasee's Seetaa is always holy and pure. He has nicely put a scene, in which Raam asks Seetaa to enter into fire because He wanted to do some Leelaa as a human being, so he wanted to keep Her safe with Agni Dev. And since not even Lakshman could know it, He had to retrieve Her back from Agni, that is why it was necessary to ask Seetaa to enter fire. Agni Dev finally brought His original Seetaa back.

(2) In Raamaayan - While Vaalmeeki's Seetaa is an ordinary Satee Pativrataa woman proving Herself pure at time to time. There is no mention of such incident [putting Seetaa with Agni Dev after Khar-Dooshan Vadh] in Vaalmeeki's Raamaayan, but She had to enter Agni at the time of returning from Raavan's Lankaa.


Establishment of Shiv Ling on Sea Coast

(1) In Maanas - establishment of Shiv Ling on the sea coast has been mentioned very prominently. [Its one reason is given, as Raam was going to kill Raavan who was a great devotee of Shiv, that is why it was necessary to please Shiv Jee before harming His Bhakt; or take permission to kill His Bhakt].

(2) In Raamaayan - But Vaalmeeki never even mentions it.


Angad-Raavan Dialogs

(1) In Maanas - There is a detailed description of Angad-Raavan dialogs which fits there very logically. Especially the story of stamping his foot in Raavan's court and then to ask anybody to move it from its place is very popular in northern society. (Maybe because of reading Maanas all around there.)

(2) In Raamaayan - But Vaalmeeki Jee has only mentioned about it that Raam sent Angad to Raavan. he doesn't give any details.


Raam's fight With Lav and Kush

(1) In Maanas - Although Maanas  doesn't describe Raam's life after His crowning, but we hear a lot about the reference of the holding Ashwamedh Yagya horse by Lav and Kush and defeating Bharat, Lakshman, and Shatrughn by them in fighting while they wanted to get their horse back. But when Raam comes to fight with them, Seetaa requests Vaalmeeki Jee to stop Her children fighting with their father.

(2) In Raamaayan - But Vaalmeeki Raamaayan's story flow doesn't go that way. Then where does this reference come from?


While killing Raavan,

(1) In Maanas - Maanas describes it "Trijataa says "Hey princess, Raam is not killing Raavan because you are always in Raavan's mind. And you always live in Raam's heart, if Raam kills Raavan, then he will kill you, and if He will kill you, He will kill Himself, and since Trilok is in Him, so by killing Raavan this Trilok will also be destroyed. When fighting continuously, Raavan will not think about you, then only Raam will kill him."

(2) In Raamaayan - Raamaayan doesn't mention Seetaa asking about Raavan's killing and then Trijataa telling Her as why Raam was not killing Raavan. 


While killing Raavan,

(1) In Maanas - Vibheeshan helps Raam  to kill Raavan. He says to Raam - "Raavan has Amrit in his navel that is why he is not being killed. Unless you break that Amrit Kund, he wouldn't die." Then Raam had to shoot 31 arrows to kill him - 10 for his 10 heads, 20 for his 20 arms and one for his navel to break the Amrit pot there. Before this He was shooting only 30 arrows - 10 arrows for his heads and 20 arrows for his arms, but in this way his heads and arms used to grow again as soon as they were cut. He had a Vardaan for this.

(2) In Raamaayan -  Maatali advises Raam to use Brahmaastra to kill Raavan, but still Raam uses another weapon and just kills him.

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Posted: 2013-08-07T19:46:15Z

^ ^ Adding some more...

Rama and Sati/Parvati
In Valmiki Ramayana in 36th Sarga of Bala Kanda, there is the story of Parvati. In Ramacaritamanasa, there is the story of Sati testing Rama when he is searching for Sita after she was abducted. Since Parvati is the reincarnation of Sati, Sati should have come first in these stories and Parvati later. However, in these stories Parvati comes first and Sati later.

Lakshman Rekha
Valimki Ramayan does not mention anything about Lakshman Rekha.(Lakshmana advising Sita not to cross that line,till they returned.In Goswami Tulasidas' Manas I guess there is nothing as such during abduction but in another verse we find Mandodari saying to Ravan "you couldn't even cross the line drawn by Lakshmana."

Four Brothers - Vishnu
Valmiki describes Shri Ram is an incarnation of Vishnu. He says that Rama is 1/2 of Lord Vishnu, Bharat is 1/4 of Lord Vishnu, Lakshman and Shatrughan are 1/6th each of Lord Vishnu. Altogether make up the whole.
RCM describes Shri Ram as Vishnu,Lakshman as Seshavatar,Bharat as Sudarshan Chakra and Shatrghna as conch of Vishnu.

Shri Ram - Human/Vishnu avatar
RCM goes deep in devotion as Ram as Vishnu but Valmiki Ramayan though recognizes Shri Ram as Vishnu it portrays him as a normal human being.



Edited by Viraaga - 2013-08-07T20:12:04Z
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Posted: 2013-08-07T20:27:15Z


@ Vrish
From which Canto and Verse of Ramayan you found this!?

In Black,
Does this mean "Sita Devi allowed Raavan to touch and Kidnap her"?!?

One Shaap he got from Kuber's son Nalkoobar. When Raavan was going to win Chandramaa and rested on Kailaash Parvat in the night, he saw Rambhaa Apsaraa going to Nalkoobar and raped her. She told everything to Nalkoobar. Nalkoobar gave Shaap to Raavan, "If you will touch any woman forcefully, without her wish, your head will break in seven pieces." That is why he could not touch any woman without their wish, including Seetaa. And this saved many a women's Dharm living in Raavan's women's palaces.



Edited by Viraaga - 2013-08-07T20:27:12Z
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Posted: 2013-08-08T01:40:12Z
That part is confusing.  In Valmiki, Ravan did forcibly grab and put Sita on his chariot, but once in Asokavatika, he never touched her against her will, due to that curse.

This curse I believe is mentioned in Uttarkand, where Agastya and other rishis, who are visiting Rama who is king, narrate to him the stories of Ravan, Hanuman & Vali.  That's where this was mentioned.
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Posted: 2013-08-08T03:23:51Z
Originally posted by .Vrish.



That part is confusing.  In Valmiki, Ravan did forcibly grab and put Sita on his chariot, but once in Asokavatika, he never touched her against her will, due to that curse.

This curse I believe is mentioned in Uttarkand, where Agastya and other rishis, who are visiting Rama who is king, narrate to him the stories of Ravan, Hanuman & Vali.  That's where this was mentioned.


I read that "Ravana lifted the entire piece of earth with Sita standing on it and whisked her away on his aerial chariot. As he realized that he cannot lay his hands on Sita directly."This description belongs to which version?"


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Posted: 2013-08-08T05:34:57Z
Originally posted by Viraaga


Originally posted by .Vrish.



That part is confusing.  In Valmiki, Ravan did forcibly grab and put Sita on his chariot, but once in Asokavatika, he never touched her against her will, due to that curse.

This curse I believe is mentioned in Uttarkand, where Agastya and other rishis, who are visiting Rama who is king, narrate to him the stories of Ravan, Hanuman & Vali.  That's where this was mentioned.


I read that "Ravana lifted the entire piece of earth with Sita standing on it and whisked her away on his aerial chariot. As he realized that he cannot lay his hands on Sita directly."This description belongs to which version?"


I think  this is from Kamba Ramayana. Sita asks her mother Bhoomi to protect her, and so Ravana has to lift the earth along with Sita.

BY the way, very good collection Vrish!
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Posted: 2013-08-08T07:41:57Z
Thanks for posting this information here, Vrish. I remember reading it in the Ramayan (NDTV) forum. Was it Khalrika who initially posted it?
 
I just have one question regarding Vedavati.
 
In Valmiki Ramayan, it clearly says that Vedavati was reborn as Sita, right? Could you, if possible, mention whether this story was written in the beginning or end of Uttar Kand?
 
Because in Lord Balaji's incarnation, it is written (I think in Skanda Purana) that Vedavati was reborn as Padmavati in order to marry Vishnu, since that desire of her's never got fulfilled due to Ravan. My doubt about this story is...would Vedavati have had to wait for Balaji to marry her, when she could have married him during Krishna avatar along with his other wives? Also, didn't Vedavati swear revenge on Ravan, cursing that she would be reborn just to kill him, and in the process marry Vishnu?
 
Skanda Purana says that Vedavati was reborn as Chhaya Sita, and that when the real Sita was sent to Agni Dev, the Chhaya Sita was kidnapped by Ravan. After the Agni Pariksha when the real Sita was returned to Ram, she asked Ram to marry Chhaya Sita, but Ram refused since he was eka patnivrata and promised to marry her in another avatar. Why couldn't he just marry her as Krishna? Confused
 
So...is it true that Padmavati was an incarnation of Vedavati, or was she simply another form of Mahalakshmi?
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Posted: 2013-08-08T07:50:37Z


I read that "Ravana lifted the entire piece of earth with Sita standing on it and whisked her away on his aerial chariot. As he realized that he cannot lay his hands on Sita directly."This description belongs to which version?"


"I think  this is from Kamba Ramayana. Sita asks her mother Bhoomi to protect her, and so Ravana has to lift the earth along with Sita."

@Surya_Krsnbhakt

You are right!

In Aadhyatma Ramayana: 

One among it is lakshmana rekha 'Lakshmana's drawing a line around the hermitage, like a firewall...' When Seetha transgressed this firewall and came out of it to offer alms to Ravana, in Brahman sanyaasi's guise, she in her fear fell down on ground, as said in Aadhyatma Ramayana in the verse: 

'tato vidaarya dharaniim nakhaih uddhritya baahubhih | 
tolayitvaa rathe kshiptaa yayau kshipram vihaayasaa || '

'Then (Ravana) cleaved the earth with his nails, uplifting that clod with his hands and with a balancing act put it in the air-chariot, and quickly went away in skyway...'

Similarly narrated in Kambha Ramayanam.


Edited by Viraaga - 2013-08-08T09:16:26Z
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