META chai party: RK as James Dean | Madhubala

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Foucaults-qalam

@Foucaults-qalam

Goldie

+ 2

Posted: 11 years ago

Dear Meta peeps,

This is a new initiative for those forum members who like to take part in more complex discussion than is normally engaged in forum land during the week.

For the uninitiated, a meta discussion refers to themes and ideas expressed in a piece of fiction or an art work which relate to the wider social, political, economic, cultural, and psychological issues as are manifested in the work.

Commentators discuss not only the content of the show, but the conditions of its creation. The fourth wall is demolished, the universe of the work loses its integrity and becomes open to analysis. For example, and this is a distinction which I have seen very few people on the forum make, which is perhaps why there is a degree of quite illogical outrage at any criticism, that there is a separation between the intent and ideas expressed within the internal logic of the show by characters, and those expressed by the creators who drive the show, ie authorial intent.

Without making this a university lecture, and moving swiftly on: what is the weekend chai party for?

We are looking for long and complex discussions. Raging debates. Lets get it on! We are not necessarily look for things like ' great post' or ' me no like u u suk lol' but strong, complex opinions that express complex ideas. Sure there won't be 50 people who are able to take part at this stage; we are happy to have 5!

We welcome all posters and opinions, as long as they are legible and written mostly in English. The use of icons should be extremely limited. Please keep on topic, and personal conversations unrelated to the topic are to be avoided. A couple of forum members did not abide to this common courtesy last week, leaving the rest of us severely disappointed. ETA Unfortunately a repeat of this regrettable incident occured this week too, and will be reported to forum authorities. Let us not have a repeat of this unfortunate episode in future. Today's topic comes from our dear friend and brilliant forum-gal, shridevigaddam. All hail!

Today's topic is: IS RK the James Dean of the Indian film world? Heart-throb for millions and yet inexperienced in love? Romantic hero, yet bereft of both emotional and physical intimacy?

Discuss!

ETA:

We had a lovely and fruitful discussion this weekend, made especially interesting by the contribution of Bhoomi, Pippa, NS and escape.my.love, along with regulars Shridevi and Applesenpeaches (who also acquired a new appelation in the process), and a few other sporadic though invaluable partcipants.

The discussion went through sexual identity formations, representaions of sexual experience, masculinity, depictions of female sexuality, childhood abuse, psychological damage and identity formation through adolescence, the taboos that attend mental health, formation of male and female psyches in repressed and regressive societies, revolutions, phases of spiritual awareness, the Pill, and a whole gamut of fascinating insights and anecdotes. I hope it was as stimulating for all our contributors as it was for me.

Join us again for what will no doubt be a wonderful discussion next weekend!

__________________
Always watching

Edited by Foucaults-qalam - 11 years ago

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Frequent Posters

Namita

@Namita-M

IF-Stunnerz

+ 5

Posted: 11 years ago

Wow! I am on the first page...yay! FQ, it is a great post. RK as James Dean, yes very plausible from what I could tell. why else would RK the Superstar go running to Madhu for his safe keeping...lol...He was so shy when it came to Madhu, why??? is he really bereft of physical intimacy or he has a some feeling in a corner for Madhu and he was shy! he definitely some values, and limits he would not cross...that cheat oh his adhi adhuri biwi! FQ, i am not much of a writer but tried my best to put forward my thoughts and opinions!
Shri awesome topic girl and I have missing you girl! Looking forward to reading your thoughts!

Edited by Namita.Murti - 11 years ago

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Shridevi Gaddam

@0-SD-0

IF-Rockerz

+ 2

Posted: 11 years ago

Rishu versus RK

This week we saw that RK opened upto Madhubala, just a bit, to tell her how he lost his Dad when he was 12 years old. A day that left the boy confused and shocked beyond any reconciliation. Here he had been enjoying with his Dad and two hours later Rishu loses his father. He sees him hanging by the ceiling.

We got just this much peep. Not more than this. But yet what was relevant piece of info was that Rishabh smothered Rishu that day along with his Dad's funeral and he started becoming RK. He couldn't sleep on that day and ever since was never able to sleep. And later on in his life he took to drinking to beat away his insomnia.

So imagination is wide open. Questions galore on the evolution of RK from Rishu.

How did the kid manage himself into becoming RK?

What was the mother doing ? Was she unable to provide any kind of vent to her son, the much needed vent.

Was the death on his B'day? Per the flashback, Rishab was happy winning the cricket match. That was being celebrated. What if it really happened on his B'day. Terrible day. B'day & D'day, better buried in history as if the day never happened. Then what of his existence ? Existential dilemma and more so when you feel trapped.

If the adult man is drinking now, what was the boy doing to beat sleeplessness condition earlier ? Kind of impractical to imagine that the boy took to drinking then and he was caught by none.

The boy became a responsible man to fulfil his fathers dreams and had killed his childhood to sustain his father's memory. The son vowed to himself that he will make his father proud with his achievements and that became his holy crusade.

Poco/Jackie described the boy/man's state as a medical condition. Here it is in her words.

"Rishabh is trapped in that moment of a 12 year old - he has been under post trauma depression for 17 years and the very fact that he finds denial indulgences to fight this depression makes it a medical condition. "

************

Now if that was not enough for us, this week we also saw, Rishabh Kundra getting fidgety around the bare back of his wife Madhubala. The wife whom he loves to flaunt by holding her waist, dancing with her to a sexy number, he has no shyness when is in absolute state of hate for her or a puppet. But the same wife when seen in respectful manner and not as an enemy, RIshabh Kundra was nervous and he was almost sweating at the difficult dori -tying exercise.

And if that was not a spectacle to watch, we have another mute drama to watch. The Superstar RK whose mouth is never closed and utters bombastic dialogues and taunts and every ready ti yell or scream, he gets tongue-tied when a certain family member Deepali leaves not a moment to seduce him. And she was not even a Siren if you ask me, but our RK had an attack of consternation.

This lead me to conclude that Rishabh Kundra is not a fully sexually developed man and to be more specific. He grew up too fast, leaving gape holes on his psyche. I had this conversation going on with Jackie, FQ and FG earlier, which I am going to paste in my next post.

Edited by shridevigaddam - 11 years ago

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Shridevi Gaddam

@0-SD-0

IF-Rockerz

+ 2

Posted: 11 years ago

RK - man trapped in the boy's mind

A collection of thoughts as members discussed throughout the day.

Myself

I feel that Rishabh was so busy turning into RK with all darker forces that he did not have the opportunity of growing up sexually. Sometimes lack of this growth, lack of expression of this energy twists us to something else. We become weak persons and try to hide our weakness.

Kundalini Chakras tell us after Mooladhara,we have Swadhistana and all the other deeper and higher levels of our existential needs. When the boy's growth got rudely interrupted at the age of 12, his body and mind were still living the first two energies.

Not RK , but Rishabh when he tried to tie the dori, he was in a shaken state.

Likewise, when he is being seduced, he is being nervous and jittery.

And because the boy is trapped in man's body and vice versa, the response comes out as comic, confused and yet we see the vulnerability, the lack of knowledge, the lack of skill on that front, the insecurity seeps out.

I must say that while we are getting to have MB-RK in one room through the predator Dipaali's sexual overtures, it makes us happy of the result, but it is not all rosy. I feel for RK who seems so powerful and yet he can become such an easy prey to predators of different kind.

Poco/Jackie (the author of Beast Palace series)

Thank you and this is a WOW take. Hmm, perhaps. Maybe , it easy for him to serenade heroines and women the powerful avatar of Rishabh Kundra , but when it comes down to 'feeling' a woman as Rishabh , he is fidgety and reticent. I mean sleeping with a woman is one thing but feeling her is another altogether. I mean, we have seen it , right? Rishabh has no qualms in touching Maddy anywhere when he is being a villain but the moment that mask falls and he is boyish and vulnerable, his hands clench.

I think Rishabh is sexually evolved but when it comes to connecting emotion and vulnerability to sexuality , he gets cold feet and how. 😆

Myself

Yes Jackie. You got it right. Sexual development is very basic. It has to be regulated into the mental dimensions as well. The emotional connection and security is missing for him. This can be seen from the levels of self-building, bonding with others and social expression and people skills and finally the confidence of what we have. The boy's was protected in his father's company and then his growth stopped. So I am saying he never ever explored the bonding part. If you do not bond how can you know which is adhesive, which is cohesive and which one is repelling. Rishabh's behaviour in the two incidents seemed as if a child seeing a woman's bare back for the first time and then being consternated at some adult trying to do an unthinkable act. So many child-abuse victims tell us that they just let it happen. Why? because the children do not have the mental knowledge that they can react.

As for the past with Dipali...my guess is ..RK was so drunk that he never knew what may have happened or not happened and Dipali uses that info to blackmail him into coercive acts of her choice. 😆 Just a guess.

FQ ( Author of the FQnama series)

You mean that like James Dean, RK is a virginpoo? If the writers had that kind of visioning for him, more props them. But i just think they are weak and unplanned and confused as always. The dori reluctance was absurd. And to me, Deepali and he clearly have a sexual history. Knowing her, she probably made it up as RK passed out drunk and then blackmailed her way into his house.

Pippa

I'm 100% sure he's a virgin...remember, he was all a-jitter when attempting to tie Madhu's blouse strings...goes to prove that Deeps didn't get her evil way with him and also explains his lockjaw ailment seeing her slithering about in his bed room carrying the time tested aphrodisiac...a glass of milk

FG (ApplenPeaches) I love to call her Fruity Girl and she too likes it. 😳

She penned her thoughts earlier over a different post titled "the boy is the father to the man"

https://www.indiaforums.com/forum/topic/3206390

Didnt RK have a girl friend or someone in the beginning? Did I get that wrong? Was she a girlfriend-in-name-only like Madhu is wife-in-name-only? He must have tied hundreds of dories of his gfs or romanced them onscreen.. Did they just show the two scenes SD was taking about just to show that he feels something when it comes to Madhu and that he is disgusted with Deepali?

FQ again

Oh yes. Me thinks publicist created affairs. Like most affairs in Hollywood, and now, Bollywood too.

My reading is that RK has probably had sex, but never with anyone with whom he connects emotionally. With Madhubala, this is not so. He does not love her, but he knows her and she knows him. I think his sexual encounters are more like ships in the dark. One of these ships is Deepali who followed him and is trying to dock at his harbour ever since.

****

Those were some thoughts. Welcome to the discussion

Edited by shridevigaddam - 11 years ago

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pippa

@pippa

IF-Rockerz

Posted: 11 years ago

Let me admit at the very outset that what I'm about to indulge in is arm-chair psychology based mainly on American psycho fiction and movies...dooor dooor se Freud's se vakif nahin.

This is pertaining to RK at the moment.

We know that he has issues, major issues, with his mother. What exactly they are is still unknown and if I know my Indian soaps like the back of my hand, the said issues are unlikely to be taken up and explained to us..whether out of some kind of wariness of the Indian public or sheer lack of knowledge.

Anyway, coming to the mother-son issue...he definitely hates his mom..hasn't spoken to her for years...at least directly, only via Bittuji. He was 12 when his dad died and his mom remarried. The poor lady may have had a good enough reason to take the step but apparently failed to discuss it with her son who revered his dad.
Moreover, a scene in one of the flashbacks suggest that young Rishu seemed to understand the sexual innuendos of touching..re the possessive Hand on mom's shoulder.
Looks like he feels that his mom has sold out primarily for her own needs, totally negating what her son might want.

I'm only grateful that RK didn't turn out to be a sexual pervert or a deviant indulging in physically hurting women and blaming it all on Momma Dearest! He limits his torture to words mostly.

He may have sexual issues as a result ...we are never going to find out ..Indian TV is too shy to explore such touchy points...but, it looks as if there is an inherent respect for women hidden deep inside somewhere...his care for Madhu for one, his non-reaction to Dippy (that could be sheer fright or distaste) and his self control with his mom.

As for James Dean, about him later...when I find out more about him..all I know was that he was manically good looking, died young after wrapping his car round a tree.

Edited by pippa - 11 years ago

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Foucaults-qalam

@Foucaults-qalam

Goldie

+ 2

Posted: 11 years ago

Brilliantly recapped, sd! Now i'm going to bed, but will rejoin later in the evening! With more thoughts!

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Foucaults-qalam

@Foucaults-qalam

Goldie

+ 2

Posted: 11 years ago

Originally posted by: pippa
Let me admit at the very outset that what I'm about to indulge in is arm-chair psychology based mainly on American psycho fiction and movies...dooor dooor se Freud's se vakif nahin.

This is pertaining to RK at the moment.

We know that he has issues, major issues, with his mother. What exactly they are is still unknown and if I know my Indian soaps like the back of my hand, the said issues are unlikely to be taken up and explained to us..whether out some kind of wariness of the Indian public or sheer llack of knowledge.

Anyway, coming to the mother-son issue...he definitely hates his mom..hasn't spoken to her for years...at least directly, only via Bittuji. He was 12 when his dad died and his mom remarried. The poor lady may have had a good enough reason to take the step but apparently failed to discuss it with her son who revered his dad.
Moreover, a scene in one of the flashbacks suggest that young Rishu seemed to understand the sexual innuendos of touching..re the possessive Hand on mom's shoulder.
Looks like he feels that his mom has sold out primarily for her own needs, totally negating what her son might want.

I',m only grateful that RK didn't turn out to be a sexual pervert or a deviant indulging in physically hurting women and blaming it all on Momma Dearest! He limits his torture to words mostly.

He may have sexual issues as a result ...we are never going to find out ..Indian TV is too shy to explore such touchy points...but, it looks as if there is an inherent respect for women hidden deep inside somewhere...his care for Madhu for one, his non-reaction to Dippy (that could be sheer fright or distaste) and his self control with his mom.

As for James Dean, about him later...when I find out more about him..all I know was that he was manically good looking, died young after wrapping his car round a tree.

He died, supposedly, a virgin.

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Shridevi Gaddam

@0-SD-0

IF-Rockerz

+ 2

Posted: 11 years ago

Thank you Namz, 🤗

Pippa,

You have touched what FQ also broached on. And actually agree with both of you. If Indian TV audience was mature enough and writers bold and inspired enough, they could have addressed all the complexes that we have raised. And you are 100% right. All this insight into the character is going to left unaddressed and one fine day RK would have become Rishu or Rishabh Kundra without even rubbing Allahddin's lamp. Remember Maan's character from Geet, how his anger was never explored and he just became a happy laughing man without any explanation into it.

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Sonu

@applenpeaches

IF-Dazzler

+ 2

Posted: 11 years ago

Had gone to bed, but got up again to make this post.. My post contain either bulletins or numbers.. I find it easier to express myself that way (might have something to do with my researcher brain).. So bear with me...

I have been thinking about RK's virginity issue.. So I reached two conclusion

Conclusions:

1. He is not a virgin

2. He is a virgin

Reasons:

1. Would not be one if he is a real character.

2. Bcos he appears in indian telly.

The thing is, his virginity doesnt really matter. The point I want to make is, we will never be able to reach any conclusion with regard to this, given the writers are seldom bold enough to suggest a non-virgin hero or heroine unless the show caters to a radical audience or the plot demands one.. So my conclusion is: Virgin RK.

As Pippa mentioned in her thread earlier, RK has lots of issues with his mother..

After his father's death he grew very possessive of his mother. For reasons unknown to us she married again, against her son's wishes. This could explain why he was staring at the hand that was holding Radhaji's shoulder just after the wedding ceremony. And he grows to hate his mother. There might also be problems with kukuji and his possible connection with his father's death...

Inspite of these issues, he allows her to stay at his place. If you look at her, she dresses like a rich lady and is probably spending his money and not her husband's (given that her husband and stepson are leaches).. He speaks to her through Bittuji.. To the other two 'thope hua rishte' he doesnt even bother to do that. But the important thing to remember is, he tolerates them..

Until they show more on these childhood days, we can never conclude why this relationship is so messed up...

So lets get on to RK-Dipali relation...

Given my conclusion regarding RK's virginity, RK-Dipali relationship is dud.. His actions when ever she is near indicates that she disgusts him. Dipali, I would say, probably tried getting to RK first.. Remember her odd reference to the marital bed in today's episode (If that reference meant they have had sex, it shoots down my virginity theory).

So to uphold my virginity theory, I would say RK for some reason (probably he found her cosing up to Sikki in the decked up bed room) declined to marry her on their wedding day... So she married the next avaliable guy: Sikki. It gave her easy access to RK.. And she now leaves no opportunity to jump on him, though RK doesnt encourage her..

But it still leaves this question: Why is he not protesting out loud when she tries to man-handle him? Why is he not shouting at that woman instead of smoldering silently? Granted he looks sexy when he does that, but he must have realised by now that it is not working.. His sexy smoldering looks probably attracts her even more.. Why is he not calling for Bittuji like he does with his mother? Now thats the interesting question.. So again I have a few points:

1. Bcos she is a women, he doesnt want to humiliate her... (This makes no sense because he leaves no stone unturned to humiliate Madhu..)

2. He has no clue how to stop this woman! (Mute point)

3. He secretly enjoys it.. 🤢

4. SD's theory of sexually 12-year old Rishabh who has no idea how to stop this sexual harassment. (Indian telly's shoulder's are yet not broad enough to carry this...)

5. She is connected to his past.. As I was logging off, I found this post in the forum: https://www.indiaforums.com/forum/topic/3207110 No idea about its authenticity...

6. Sixth point is I have no other point to make... 😳

Other than the fifth point, none of the above seems to work. So RK-Deepali = Dreadful past (How dreadful is the dreadful past? Is she have some how connected to his father's suicide? Questions, questions..)

So now that I have made you guys mad with my post, I am going back to my bed.. Will dream of RK-Dipali-Madhu menage a trois and come up with more of my brilliant ideas...

Dont kill me after reading this post.. I had lots of fun, writing this in the middle of the night.. The fact that I got up in the middle of my sleep is the only excuse I can give for the nonsense that I have written.

See you all tomorrow..

- FG..

Edited by applenpeaches - 11 years ago

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Sonu

@applenpeaches

IF-Dazzler

+ 2

Posted: 11 years ago

Couldnt sleep because I finally got the answer to why RK is not shouting at Dipali...

Clues:

1. Dipali's reference to the decorated bed...

2. RK's anger towards his mother..

3. RK + Dipali = Dreadful past...

4. RK mellowness towards Madhu and his awkwardness (not the sexual kind) with her..

Solution:

In my earlier post I suggested Rishu was possessive towards his mother and didnt want her to marry.. I think in his anger at his mother he probably created a scene in Radhaji- Kukuji's bedroom- probably destroyed their decked up bed.. It was witnessed by young Dipali (remember, clunky plot device of clunkdonia)... Since Dipali knows his emotional outburst, he is silently tolerating her. As long as she doesnt openly voice his past, he will continue to tolerate her..

I should have been a script writer!

- FG

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