+* Pandava parivar *+ - Page 6

It's true that many of the warriors on the Pandava side were not sinless, such as Drupada and Ghatotkacha, just as some in the Kaurava side too were virtuous, such as Vikarna.  However, if the adharmis were what he wanted destroyed, he could have engineered it so that the adharmi warriors on both sides - Bheeshma, Drona, Ashwatthama, Duryodhan, Dushashan, Shakuni, and on the other side, Drupada, Ghatotkacha and anyone else who wasn't virtuous would get killed.  Or at least, if he thought it was important to protect the Pandavas @ all costs, why not extend the coverage to Abhimanyu, Draupadi's sons, and a few others like Uttara's brothers?  For instance, on the 18th night, since he kept the Pandavas & Satyaki away from their camp anticipating Ashwatthama's attack, he could have asked Draupadi's sons to join them as well.

I'm curious about another thing.  In the battle where Arjun got killed by Babruvahana, Uloopi invoked a gem that had the power to revive the dead, and resurrected Arjun using that.  But it begs the question - if she could do that for Arjun, why couldn't she do it for her son Iravana when he was killed in battle by Alambusha?

Varaali, thanks 😊

I didn't know most of it and I haven't read the earlier scriptures.

Vrish,

I think perhaps Adirath and Radha were alive after the war (not sure, though) and this is why the had to adopt Vrishketu?

Also I don't know what happened to Karna's foster brothers and their families (if anything is mentioned) after the war.

Also, on the difference between Ramayan and Mahabharath, I agree with you. The stories of Krishna's strategies explains quite a lot. I've always felt that Krishna's speeches / explanations made a person move on. The Bhagavath Gita and the story of how he handled the situation between Yudhishtra and Arjuna when they almost killed each other are good examples.

Somewhere I read that Kunti told Bheema to leave Hadimba after a son was born - leave her in the forest to be queen of the demons or to raise her son to be the king of demons - no idea. As far as I can recall from that story - Kunit did not object to Bheema taking Hadimba as his wife as long as he left her as soon as a son was born to them. Maybe that explains why the Pandavas did not stay with her when they were in exile.

Wasn't Meghavarna Barbarik's brother? I get confused after Ghatotkacha under Bheema's line. I don't know anything about Anjanparva.

There are stories of Barbarik's bravery and accomplishments. I can't find that book. When I do, I'll post it here. I vaguely remember the story but not sure of the details.

Krishna's aim (to the best of my knowledge) wasn't just that the Pandavas should win the war but to keep them (all 5 of them) alive till the end - no matter the cost.

As for Iravana, I think he was meant to be sacrificed and with Krishna's help (?) he was allowed participate in the battle. I don't think he was meant to live. Or probably it could be used only once but that doesn't make sense as both Vrishketu and Arjun were revived using the jewel.

All this is quite confusing.


By the way, Vrish bhaiya, you let the cat out of the bag (just kidding)


Edited by Vibhishna - 12 years ago

Vibs

Originally posted by: .Vrish.

It's true that many of the warriors on the Pandava side were not sinless, such as Drupada and Ghatotkacha, just as some in the Kaurava side too were virtuous, such as Vikarna.  However, if the adharmis were what he wanted destroyed, he could have engineered it so that the adharmi warriors on both sides - Bheeshma, Drona, Ashwatthama, Duryodhan, Dushashan, Shakuni, and on the other side, Drupada, Ghatotkacha and anyone else who wasn't virtuous would get killed.  Or at least, if he thought it was important to protect the Pandavas @ all costs, why not extend the coverage to Abhimanyu, Draupadi's sons, and a few others like Uttara's brothers?  For instance, on the 18th night, since he kept the Pandavas & Satyaki away from their camp anticipating Ashwatthama's attack, he could have asked Draupadi's sons to join them as well.

It wasn't merely adharm that Krishna wanted to destroy - he wanted to relieve Bhudevi's burden of most warriors on earth, or at least the active ones.

Actually, I meant 'Adhirath and Radha were alive' after the war. Maybe the Pandavas needed to get their permission to adopt Vrishketu. I don't know much about the family norms back then.

I thought the rakshashas could change form - they could have lived in the cities at least for a while unless there was a rule banning them from staying there. Ghatotkacha was able to enter the city and change his form to ruin the arrangements for Lakshman & Balram's daughter (in the South, her name is mentioned to be Sundari or Vatsala - not sure if there are other versions of the name). The novel 'Abhimanyu Sundari' narrates the story of how these two married each other - an entertaining and hilarious story - probably romanticised by the authors. There is an old Tamil/Telugu movie Mayabazaar which is also based on this story - a really good movie.

Any idea how Ghatotkacha married Ahilawati, a yaksha?

Before the war, a sacrifice was to be made to ensure the victory of the Pandavas for which they had to sacrifice a warrior of unmatched valour. I don't remember the story very well but Iravana was chosen. It was something like this. For this sacrifice, which was to be done on the full moon, a warrior of unmatched valour must be beheaded or something like that. This supposedly was a tradition of long ago - called a sacrifice to the battlefield - forgot the name. The story I read (not very sure of the details - its been ages since I read that but I remember the events well).

Duryodhan wanted to ensure his victory over the Pandavas and was willing to do anything for it. Shakuni suggested he approach Sahadev as a king wanting to consult an astrologer - Sahadev who is to abide by the laws of astrologers and being the greatest of his time should not refuse. It was said that an astrologer should never refuse to advise a person who seeks his services even if he was the enemy. Also, an astrologer cannot reveal certain secrets even if he was able to find them to anyone even if his life depended on it. Sahadev, who could not refuse Duryodhan's request had to give him the truth - a way he could ensure victory for the Kauravas. On the night of the new moon, a warrior of unmatched valour should be sacrificed with elaborate worships and offerings. Only 4 people were eligible to be sacrificed - Krishna, Arjuna, Shalya, Iravan. Krishna and Arjuna were ruled out for Duryodhan and he needed Shalya. The only option left was Iravan. Duryodhan managed to convince him to offer himself as a sacrifice. Krishna learned of this and warned the Pandavas that they should beat Duryodhan in this issue. According to the stories, the new moon was the next day. I don't know who convinced Iravan again but he ended up offering himself for the Pandavas now. For a new moon to occur, the Sun and the Moon should meet. Krishna summoned Suryadev and Chandradev (in some legends he started doing the rituals for the new moon day and both these devas alarmed at what Krishna was doing appeared in front of him). Since both the Sun and the Moon had appeared together, that day became the new moon day. Iravan offered himself as a sacrifice but was allowed to live for the battle. some stories say that Krishna shared his sacrifice and some say that Iravan's flesh was offered as the sacrifice to allow him to remain alive after the ritual.


I shall remove the following paragraph if it is inappropriate here: A warning needed here?

This is where the stories of Koothandavar appear - Iravan expressing his desire to be wed and spend his last night with his wife, Arjun searching far and wide for someone to be his son's bride but everyone refused to be widowed within a day and Krishna assuming a female form to become Iravan's bride and came to be called Aravaani (In Tamil, Iravan was pronounced Aravaan and hence his wife was called Aravaani.)

Duryodhan was left disappointed - I think he completed the ritual with someone else and on the wrong day as it would seem.

This story is found in the Tamil versions of the Mahabharath.

Incidentally, was Iravan accepted by his mother's family? Though he grew up in the Nagaloka, the Ashtavasus (the 8 great snakes) considered Arjun their enemy and hence cursed him. Did they accept Uloopi and Iravan?
Edited by Vibhishna - 12 years ago

LJR

Originally posted by: .Vrish.

Vibs

I didn't get what you meant by 'Iravana' being meant to be sacrificed.  Ghatotkacha was - to spend Karna's shakti*.  But Iravana was killed by another rakshasha Alamvusha, who was the brother or son of Bakasura.  This rakshasha warrior created havoc in the Pandava ranks, and only Abhimanyu repelled him once,  but everyone else, including Bhima, was unable to defeat him.  Ghatotkacha killed him in battle on day 14, while Arjun was invading Jayadrath's kamal-vyuha.

My point above - as you mentioned, that gem could be used on more than one person, and Uloopi used it for her husband.  But her son died even b4 that.  Couldn't she then have gone to Kurukshetra and revived him?  And while she was @ it, maybe revive some of the other Pandava fallen?

I thought Iravan was killed on the final day of the battle... I guess, I must read more carefully. I don't know every detail in the Mahabharath.

Also, when I read the stories about Uloopi, it was mentioned that the Ashtavasus cursed Arjuna that he be killed by his own son and Uloopi distraught ran to her father (or grandfather?) and asked his help. Since the curse could not be revoked, he gave her a way out saying she can revive him with the gem after the war.

I was thinking - may it was because she had obtained prior permission that she could revive Arjun. Perhaps she did not know who all were going to die in the war and never got permission to use the jewel for them.

Iravana was killed on day 8 of the war.  Arjun downed Bheeshma on day 10, and it was due to his using Shikandi as a sheild that angered the Vasus.  If you recall, Bheeshma was the 8th Vasu incarnated (the first 7 were the babies that Ganga drowned) so when Arjun felled him, the Vasus were angered and cursed Arjun to be killed by his own son Babruvahana.  Uloopi overheard this and decided to save him.  (This is from the ACK Uloopi) Edited by .Vrish. - 12 years ago

Originally posted by: .Vrish.

Iravana was killed on day 8 of the war.  Arjun downed Bheeshma on day 10, and it was due to his using Shikandi as a sheild that angered the Vasus.  If you recall, Bheeshma was the 8th Vasu incarnated (the first 7 were the babies that Ganga drowned) so when Arjun felled him, the Vasus were angered and cursed Arjun to be killed by his own son Babruvahana.  Uloopi overheard this and decided to save him.  (This is from the ACK Uloopi)

But all this was after day 10.  Day 8, Iravana had already been killed by Alambusha.  So is the only reason that Uloopi was nowhere near, and didn't find out until later, whereas in Arjun's case, she anticipated it and was there to save him?

P.S. One thing I didn't understand in your previous post.  If Adhirath & Radha were alive, why would the Pandavas be the ones raising Vrishasena?  If he was all that was left of their children & grandchildren, one would think they'd be even more protective of him in their remaining years, just like the Pandavas (in Vyasa's Mahabharata) cherished Parikshit.

What I was saying was that Uloopi knew of Arjun's fate since she was in Nagaloka when Arjun was cursed. She may not have known the fates of any others during the war except that Arjun was going to survive it and die later at the hands of Babruvahana. From what I've read, the gem can't be used without prior permission from the elders or the guardians. I don't think she had the option to use the gem as she wished.

Regarding Karna's son (Vrishketu or Vrishasena?) Adhirath was a charioteer and and naturally he would feel that if Vrish (ketu? - you had mentioned Vrishasena in the post, so got confused.)
was looked after by his royal kinsmen, it would be better for his future. Vrish may not have left them as such and probably, brought Adhirath and Radha along (maybe as his own charioteer?).

Any idea what happened to his foster uncles and cousins?