In Barfi, was Jhilmil mature enough to give consent for sex? - Page 4

Originally posted by: Stella_001

Are you for real right now ?
And who said no one takes asexuality seriously ?? Apart from Aphobes like you everyone takes asexuality seriously ...

asexuals are shamed for not having sex , are being told they have issues for not feeling sexual attraction , are forced to have sex in the name of curing them , all this messes up with their mental health to the point where they start believing theres something wrong with them but sure go ahead and invalidate their struggles by saying it’s just them choosing not to f*ck ...

I swear desis like you r the reason why in India people are still scared to come out as asexual

Bold: Do you even realize what you're saying? "Forced to have sex for curing them"? Really? Do you realize that forcing anybody into any kind of sex is a crime?

"Come out as asexual"--yeah in India people have been only worshipping and glorifying asexuals by calling them Baal Brahmachaaris and what not. It's not like India is a place where asexuality and celibacy is glorified to insane extents.

Poor Indian asexuals. Boo hoo!

Originally posted by: Mahisa22

Bold: Do you even realize what you're saying? "Forced to have sex for curing them"? Really? Do you realize that forcing anybody into any kind of sex is a crime?

"Come out as asexual"--yeah in India people have been only worshipping and glorifying asexuals by calling them Baal Brahmachaaris and what not. It's not like India is a place where asexuality and celibacy is glorified to insane extents.

Poor Indian asexuals. Boo hoo!

And yes rape is a crime in any condition and yes more than often asexuals are subjected to that in the name of curing them ... what’s not clicking

and also there’s a difference between choosing not to have sex ( being Baal bhramachari ) and not feeling sexual attraction at all ..

how many asexual Indian girls or guys would have a choice of not having sex ever , even after their marriage ??

so yes poor asexual Indians cos people like you don’t even know the difference between choosing not to have sex and not feeling sexual attraction

Originally posted by: Harley_Quinn

Barfi and Jhilmil never had biological kids. That doesn't mean they never had sex either.

Barfi must have realized that Jhilmil is not mature enough to go through all the pregnancy process, but did he also consider the fact that she might not be mature enough to give consent for sex either?

Jhilmil was suffering from autism in the movie, and in autism, it always depends on the particular patient that whether he/she is capable of giving consent or not.

Do you think Jhilmil was mature enough to give consent? How would Barfi know if she could or could not? Was Barfi able to control his hormonal urges while being married to Jhilmil? Not getting sex from your wife, and neither from any other woman because then it would be cheating. Imagine how frustrating it would be?

No. Jhilmil was not "suffering" from autism. I think we need to get away from the ableist perception that just because someone is different they are suffering. People with disabilities and handicaps have been urging us to stop using language like suffering. It is a difficult shift in mindset, but we have to make it. It's not easy - even I find myself slipping into such language involuntarily and need to be corrected.

Behaviors on the autism spectrum are like fixation, patterns, rituals, compulsion, change resistance. They can make social interaction difficult, but they do not represent "immaturity." Most people on the Autism Spectrum go through puberty and adolescence like most humans. They experience sexual desires, attractions, and emotions like most humans and are mature enough to make these decisions. Shows like Atypical and Love on the Spectrum show people with Autism engaging in romantic relationships. Ultimately only a psychiatrist can tell if a person is mature enough or not.

And finally, people can be fulfilled in platonic and non-sexual relationships. The notion that sex is essential and lack of sex is frustrating - is a dangerous one that makes people feel entitled to sex from their partners. It is again a difficult mindset shift because we have been conditioned one way. But there are asexual, aromantic, demiromantic, and people of all kinds of people. There are many types of intimacy and companionship in relationships that can be fulfilling. And the need for sexual gratification can be fulfilled in many ways without always needing your significant other.

Originally posted by: Stella_001

no you can’t tell someone’s sexuality bs ..

I am calling the categorization BS.

Originally posted by: Stella_001

And yes rape is a crime in any condition and yes more than often asexuals are subjected to that in the name of curing them ... what’s not clicking

and also there’s a difference between choosing not to have sex ( being Baal bhramachari ) and not feeling sexual attraction at all ..

how many asexual Indian girls or guys would have a choice of not having sex ever , even after their marriage ??

so yes poor asexual Indians cos people like you don’t even know the difference between choosing not to have sex and not feeling sexual attraction

you obviously don't get that if an Indian says I don't wanna get married, then they won't be subject to social ostracization or anything?

And honey, rape is a heinous crime no matter who it's done to. Why the hell are you bringing that here?

Most Indians face pressure for marriage, yes. But that doesn't mean people will treat you like a freak if you don't get married (having sex does not count seperately since for most conservative Indians, sex outside marriage is a no-no).

Being asexual has no real consequences. Anybody with more than two brain cells can understand that.

Originally posted by: Mahisa22

you obviously don't get that if an Indiam says I don't wanna get married, then they won't be subject to social ostracization or anything?

And honey, rape is a heinous crime no matter who it's done to. Why the hell are you bringing that here?

Most Indians face pressure for marriage, yes. But that doesn't mean people will treat you like a freak if you don't get married (having sex does not count seperately since for most conservative Indians, sex outside marriage is a no-no).

Being asexual has no real consequences. Anybody with more than two brain cells can understand that.

where have I said rape isn’t a heinous crime ? I have been saying that asexuals face that in the name of cure and manipulated in believing that it’s for their own good ... really what’s not clicking

which india are you living in or talking about ? So you are telling me people aren’t forced to get married in many parts of India ?? what if those who are forced to get married are asexuals and just like you their partner doesn’t understand the concept of asexuality ??

@bold Tell that to asexuals who have been ridiculed for being asexuals... also if you’re not asexual you have no right to say they don’t face any problems or discrimination ..

Originally posted by: Mahisa22

You're triple as dumb since you obviously don't get that if an Indiam says I don't wanna get married, then they won't be subject to social ostracization or anything?

And honey, rape is a heinous crime no matter who it's done to. Why the hell are you bringing that here?

Most Indians face pressure for marriage, yes. But that doesn't mean people will treat you like a freak if you don't get married (having sex does not count seperately since for most conservative Indians, sex outside marriage is a no-no).

Being asexual has no real consequences. Anybody with more than two brain cells can understand that.

Here’s an experience shared by an Indian asexual woman .. tell that to her that being asexual doesn’t have any consequences .. and this is just shared by one woman , can you imagine how many women or men are trapped in situations like this cos people like you believe being asexual doesn’t have consequence or hasn’t educated themselves on asexuality

source : homegrown.com

However, it doesn’t seem like the situation can be as straightforward for many, such as Aleesha*, a 36-year-old married woman with children. She tells us “I’m past the dating stage in my life but it is complicated in marriage. How do you suddenly tell the man you are married to that you are asexual post two kids? You can’t expect your spouse to understand it and I don’t think we have support groups for families here in India. It might end my marriage or I keep up the charade while feeling violated. It’s a horrible feeling.”

She also speaks of the lack of understanding among her friend group, other married women she opens up to often ask her to give in to her husband’s needs, despite some of them also relating to the way she feels. Rajeshwari and Tara have had better support systems, with friends and family attempting to educate themselves more once they chose to come out to them.

While asexuality is valid and has challenges on its own, sometimes I feel people get loosy goosy with the definition of asexuality.

Asexuality is not experiencing sexual attraction. Getting disinterested in sex either in general or with a person, or experiencing periods of disinterest is not asexuality.

Aleesha* in the story on homegrown.in could very much be an asexual. But there is a strong possibility that she is a woman with a healthy sex drive, but merely disinterested in her husband. There are so many women who lose interest in their significant others but don't admit it due to the taboo. Women have basically been trained to take the backseat in relationships and suppress a lot of their desires. The number of women who don't experience orgasms or enjoy sex because their partners are selfish or oblivious is mind-boggling.

And while aphobia is problematic cisgender and heteroromantic aces do have it easier than others on the LGBTQ spectrum.

Originally posted by: return_to_hades

No. Jhilmil was not "suffering" from autism. I think we need to get away from the ableist perception that just because someone is different they are suffering. People with disabilities and handicaps have been urging us to stop using language like suffering. It is a difficult shift in mindset, but we have to make it. It's not easy - even I find myself slipping into such language involuntarily and need to be corrected.

Behaviors on the autism spectrum are like fixation, patterns, rituals, compulsion, change resistance. They can make social interaction difficult, but they do not represent "immaturity." Most people on the Autism Spectrum go through puberty and adolescence like most humans. They experience sexual desires, attractions, and emotions like most humans and are mature enough to make these decisions. Shows like Atypical and Love on the Spectrum show people with Autism engaging in romantic relationships. Ultimately only a psychiatrist can tell if a person is mature enough or not.

And finally, people can be fulfilled in platonic and non-sexual relationships. The notion that sex is essential and lack of sex is frustrating - is a dangerous one that makes people feel entitled to sex from their partners. It is again a difficult mindset shift because we have been conditioned one way. But there are asexual, aromantic, demiromantic, and people of all kinds of people. There are many types of intimacy and companionship in relationships that can be fulfilling. And the need for sexual gratification can be fulfilled in many ways without always needing your significant other.

I'm satisfied with your answer, even though criticized me on few things, I don't mind, and I agree I need to learn a bit.

Originally posted by: Stella_001

where have I said rape isn’t a heinous crime ? I have been saying that asexuals face that in the name of cure and manipulated in believing that it’s for their own good ... really what’s not clicking

which india are you living in or talking about ? So you are telling me people aren’t forced to get married in many parts of India ?? what if those who are forced to get married are asexuals and just like you their partner doesn’t understand the concept of asexuality ??

@bold Tell that to asexuals who have been ridiculed for being asexuals... also if you’re not asexual you have no right to say they don’t face any problems or discrimination ..

I said that in India, not getting married does not lead to ostracization. Once you get past the initial pressure, you can live an honourable life as a single man/woman. And no, this isn't the 1960's. People get married by their own consent, even in arranged marriages. What you're saying can only happen in some ultra-backwards places, not in general.

Also, people are ridiculed for a hell lot of things...even the smallest things. That doesn't mean you get to claim some 'oppression'. Even people who choose to stay virgins till marriage are ridiculed in Western countries. So what? Please, let's save the outrage for people who actually have to undergo systemic oppression and ridicule, not someone who just categorizes mainstream behaviour into fancy boxes.

Also, "coming out as demisexual"? What's next? Coming out as "only likes missionary position-sexual"?