Mahabharat Retelecast Discussion Thread 4 - Page 61

Originally posted by: Mages

not sarcastic just curious to know becos my atheist hubby drop this question last night i have no answer🤷‍♀️

its really difficult to debate with a atheist and that guy has lots of knowledge in religious prayers purans ved grant but yet a atheist and doesn't believe in it

such a weird person he is,he comes to temple as mark of respect to elders but does not pray and stand in a corner🤦🏻‍♀️

But why would Puranas mention about Dyanasours though?

Originally posted by: Mages

In Udyoga Parva of the Mahabharata, Bhishmadeclared Kripa as a mighty Maharathi, or a warrior capable of fighting 60,000 warriors simultaneously; circumspect in his mastery of all forms of weapons and combat skills.[5]

As noted in sloka given below, he is one of the seven Chiranjivin (the "immortals" who are to remain alive throughout the Kali Yuga.

I found this on kripacharya👍🏼

he is remain alive through kalyug which means he is still alive

Ashwathama bali vyaso, hanumanscha vibhishan krupa parshuramacha

Saptaite chira jivina.

Actually him being Chiranjeevi is big question itself coz

He is not great devotee of lord Vishnu/Ram like mahabali, vibhishan & hanuman.

He was not cursed like ashwathama

He is not a sage like vyas neither

He is divine birth like parshuram

Originally posted by: deepikagupta9

Subhadra arjun abduction was lord krishna's plan not arjun ,even in South they r said 2 love each other . Bhanumati was abducted from her swayamber by duryodhana with help of karn after she rejects him.

No don't tell me duryodhana also had a lovestory in South with Bhanumati . Infact Indonesia version Bhanumati was in love with arjun

Giving example of arjun abduction subhadra can't help duryodhana in this case also .

So since it was Krishna's plan it becomes justified? What kind of a logic is this?

South versions say that Arjun Subhadra were in love then you want to accept that although the Epic has nothing to suggest that love, it clearly mentions that Krishnaji was NOT sure whom Subhadra would select if her Swayamwar was arranged. That says it clearly had Arjun Subhadra been in love, there was no reason to have this doubt at all.

On the other hand, Oriya version says that Duryodhan was a great husband and nothing mentioned in epic is a direct contradiction to it, then you are completely disregarding it? To reiterate Duryodhan being a good husband isn't a folklore but a part of Oriya Mahabharata version. Orissa is the modern name of Kalinga, and Bhanumati was the princess of Kalinga. The Oriya version doesn't even consider Duryodhan as a villian of the epic, but as an anti hero/lost hero

Indonesian Mahabharata is very different and has no Polyandry, Arjun married to Shikhandi, Karna married to Shalya's daughter, Gandhari in love with Pandu, all the 100 Kauravas being the Kshetraj santaan of a goat😆 etc. That is the least reliable version. Had Bhanumati been in love with Arjun, why did she agree for the Swayamwar when he wasn't there? And if he was there, why didn't he save her?

Yet even if Bhanumati loved Arjun that nowhere reflects Duryodhan was a bad husband, since her love was never open to public(they clearly state that Bhanumati had loved Arjun secretly) in this case Duryodhan was the sufferer in this relationship being cheated by the woman he loves and who is his wife

As per the epic only Arjun abduction of Subhadra is mentioned not even Duryodhan/Karna's Bhanumati abduction. If abduction is wrong then all of them are wrong, if not, then none of them are wrong

There can not be selective choosing the narrative of your choices from the regional retellings

You have to make your choice, either accept only epic as source, then we have no clue about Duryodhan's wife or their relation. We know that Arjun abducted Subhadra that's it. This abduction could be either wrong or right, for me it's wrong, but for people of those days it was probably ok. Aside in this case women in palace have nothing to do with her saving, Draupadi's Dharma saved her. So Bhanumati doesn't even necessarily exist, and definitely had nothing to do with saving of Draupadi

Or believe in Epic+Sreemad Bhagwatam and Harivamsapuram, then Duryodhan/Karna abducted Bhanumati from her Swayamwar when she rejected him, Krishna abducted Rukmini since she requested him and Arjun abducted Subhadra on Krishna's advice since Krishna doubted that Balram would fix her marriage with Duryodhan. None of these is a love story excluding one sided love story from Rukmini. So that one could be excluded, but Arjun-Subhadra and Duryodhan-Bhanunati relationship still is at par. Either both Arjun) Duryodhan did right or both of them did wrong

Again then Draupadi was saved by her Dharma, and Krishna's blessings, nothing to do with the woman of the palace. So again Bhanumati doesn't do a thing here as well.

The woman of the palace comes into picture only when you are also believing the regional retellings. The South India retelling mentions a love story of Arjun Subhadra which is a complete contrast with what is mentioned in the epic, (now you decide if the retelling is more authentic or epic. Fine let's go with retelling being more authentic) and women of the palace saving Draupadi.

Indonesian version state Bhanumati being in love with Arjun secretly

Oriya version states that Duryodhan was a great husband who loved his wife way too much (they even mention Bhanumati loving her husband dearly but I am ignoring that since we are believing Indonesian version that she secretly loved Arjun) even after abduction when he had complete rights on her, he didn't force for immidiate marriage and tried to woo her till she accepts the marriage

So joining these three we have Arjun abducting his love on the advice of her brother.. Duryodhan/Karna abducting Bhanumati despite her rejecting Duryodhan, Duryodhan trying to woo her and not forcing her in anyway, spending months to win her love, she finally relenting and accepting Duryodhan as her husband (hiding her love for Arjun from him), post that Duryodhan giving her all the love and happiness of life, finally the women of palace saving Draupadi.

Now tell me what exactly in this narrative indicate that this Duryodhan would have objected to (forget punishing) Bhanumati helping out Draupadi?

Vyas clearly mentions that the public of Hastinapur dearly loved Duryodhan. In fact Vidur says that they would also start loving Yudhishtir once he becomes the Yuvaraj.

Will public love someone who is completely bad?

The epic does illustrate that he was great friend to Karna (most probably also to Susharma and Ashwathama), he was a great love and support to his family, his brothers and teachers.

He undoubtedly was a warrior to fight for what he felt was right.

He wasn't sent to Swarg for no reason as per the epic

Yes his bad qualities exceeded the good ones by miles. He was a criminal, but even criminals behave differently with their families, and their loved ones. Why wouldn't that happen with Duryodhan n his wife!

Coming to Ravana, I can't compare the two villians just as I can't compare the two heroines

By the way, I remember you saying that you think Karna to be good at times? What acts of Karna make him any better to Duryodhan/Dusshashan?

Originally posted by: Mages

not sarcastic just curious to know becos my atheist hubby drop this question last night i have no answer🤷‍♀️

its really difficult to debate with a atheist and that guy has lots of knowledge in religious prayers purans ved grant but yet a atheist and doesn't believe in it

such a weird person he is,he comes to temple as mark of respect to elders but does not pray and stand in a corner🤦🏻‍♀️

dinosaurs existed when there was no human population. it was ages back. so back then dwapar yug and before humans might not have discovered about them.

BTW log jjyada religion ke baare me padhke bhi athiest ban jaate hai😆

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

By the way, I remember you saying that you think Karna to be good at times? What acts of Karna make him any better to Duryodhan/Dusshashan?

Infact if u had remembered this than u would had remembered this also that I said in tv version ashwatthama is shown negative , conspiring & jealous from starting but karan is presented like people sympathies with him thou in epic he is negative from starting , forum member Andy said it is like exchange offer later u said not only ashwatthama but even Shakuni had been sacrificed to white whitewash karn , d whole discussion was 4 ashwatthama not 4 karn. I m not karn fan nor I support him . I said I like karn 4 his loyalty coz he refused 2 join Pandavas after knowing his birth truth , later said that he gave dhoka 2 duryodhana.

I support karn 4 Kunti matter coz only there he is was not wrong still draupadi & Pandavas r not his culprits.

We were making fun of suryaputra karn serial

Originally posted by: deepikagupta9

Infact if u had remembered this than u would had remembered this also that I said in tv version ashwatthama is shown negative , conspiring & jealous from starting but karan is presented like people sympathies with him thou in epic he is negative from starting , forum member Andy said it is like exchange offer later u said not only ashwatthama but even Shakuni had been sacrificed to white whitewash karn , d whole discussion was 4 ashwatthama not 4 karn. I m not karn fan nor I support him . I said I like karn 4 his loyalty coz he refused 2 join Pandavas after knowing his birth truth , later said that he gave dhoka 2 duryodhana.

I support karn 4 Kunti matter coz only there he is was not wrong still draupadi & Pandavas r not his culprits.

We were making fun of suryaputra karn serial

No not this discussion, this we did very late, it was around a week back when you were listing out the characters you like, in that you had added Karna.
That had nothing to do with Ashwathama

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

No not this discussion, this we did very late, it was around a week back when you were listing out the characters you like, in that you had added Karna.
That had nothing to do with Ashwathama

You can cross check I m not a karn fan , if I was karn fan then I would had not be making fun on f suryaputra karn .

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

Vyas clearly mentions that the public of Hastinapur dearly loved Duryodhan. In fact Vidur says that they would also start loving Yudhishtir once he becomes the Yuvaraj.

Will public love someone who is completely bad?

The epic does illustrate that he was great friend to Karna (most probably also to Susharma and Ashwathama), he was a great love and support to his family, his brothers and teachers.

He undoubtedly was a warrior to fight for what he felt was right.

He wasn't sent to Swarg for no reason as per the epic

Yes his bad qualities exceeded the good ones by miles. He was a criminal, but even criminals behave differently with their families, and their loved ones. Why wouldn't that happen with Duryodhan n his wife!

Coming to Ravana, I can't compare the two villians just as I can't compare the two heroines

Even yudhishthira's subjects were ready 2 leave with him 2 exile.

Yes I read Hastinapur people cried at his death

Vidur words came true people did accepted Yudi has king .

His brothers were great love & support 2 him , he was 2 busy in conspiring against pandavas . I don't think anywhere it is mentioned what he had done 4 his brothers , ulta uske saare brothers uski vajah se maar gaye.

Yes he had been said 2 be a great frnd 2 karn , never heard about sudharma & his frnd ship regarding ashwatthama I only read he was neutral from both side .

About reaching swarg I don't understand d criteria only of reaching swarg , if after doing so many adharma Yudi can reach swarg with his body , 2 phir duryodhana pahuch gaya , to usme konsi badi baat .

Ya I heard he is great warrior but read karn did digvijay yatra 4 him.