Polyandry in Mahabharata - Page 16

Originally posted by: swathi90

@ flauntpessimism

I got what ur saying i read where u said u believes in polyandry, i was just giving examples that’s it , it’s not to u just my pov which I added there.

neither i said ur against islamic rulers , i just carried away with my thoughts and was saying generally that’s it not to u r I believed ur against it , it was just general pov, I thought i was discussing with u not questioning u , if u felt that way sorry then , again those were my thoughts which I thought i was discussing wasn’t questioning u.

Hey sorry I didn't realize I got rude. Actually I meant to say that we shall not discuss it here because it might go against forum rules.

I was actually enjoying discussing with you. Your insights throughout are very thought provoking. I think just a small misunderstanding

See I do feel some elements have been added in our texts to make it look bad. Uttar Ramayana for example I definitely feel is a later addition at least Shambhuk instance definitely is. Ramji didn't have any issue with a Vanar reciting Vedas, Valmiki ji (a Shudras raised up) becoming the Vedic teacher but would consider Shambhuk an unpardonable sinner? It doesn't match his character. Similarly I do feel the Eklavya episode is added to somehow show how bad the caste system was not because I don't think Drona couldn't do something wrong, but because, his mention served no purpose in the story. Drona's past has been omitted, the deaths of Satyavati Amika Ambalika has no mention (they just went for Vanprasth with VedVyas ji himself and vanished from the story. VedVyas ji should have mentioned how they died) so why Eklavya and his GuruDakshina became so important??

But these were small episodes so could have been easily edited, Polyandry of Draupadi was a very big part of the epic, and if this had to be incorporated, nearly a complete rewriting was needed which doesn't make sense

Originally posted by: CaptainSpark

Loved your analysis!

Thank you😊

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

Hey sorry I didn't realize I got rude. Actually I meant to say that we shall not discuss it here because it might go against forum rules.

I was actually enjoying discussing with you. Your insights throughout are very thought provoking. I think just a small misunderstanding

See I do feel some elements have been added in our texts to make it look bad. Uttar Ramayana for example I definitely feel is a later addition at least Shambhuk instance definitely is. Ramji didn't have any issue with a Vanar reciting Vedas, Valmiki ji (a Shudras raised up) becoming the Vedic teacher but would consider Shambhuk an unpardonable sinner? It doesn't match his character. Similarly I do feel the Eklavya episode is added to somehow show how bad the caste system was not because I don't think Drona couldn't do something wrong, but because, his mention served no purpose in the story. Drona's past has been omitted, the deaths of Satyavati Amika Ambalika has no mention (they just went for Vanprasth with VedVyas ji himself and vanished from the story. VedVyas ji should have mentioned how they died) so why Eklavya and his GuruDakshina became so important??

But these were small episodes so could have been easily edited, Polyandry of Draupadi was a very big part of the epic, and if this had to be incorporated, nearly a complete rewriting was needed which doesn't make sense

It’s ok forget it😃, just a small misunderstanding, it happens sometimes 🤗

Ohh ya some stories were definitely added later, ya that shambhuk story s big no, ram ji killing him and devas showering with flowers , it s quite dramatic, ram ji doesn’t come across as person who cares much about cast, it was proved several times in epic, but whole uttar ramayan s interpolation, some episodes definitely, but whole uttar ramayan? This alway confuses me actually, do u think whole Uttar Ramayana s later interpolation. But didn’t kush changed his capital because he was angry with ayodhya people for insulting his mother, this Uttar Ramayana thing always confuses me, i mean did someone wrote whole thing to show ram in poor light who knows, and ya the characterisation of valmiki ramayan and uttar ramayan also r different., that’s y this one confuses me, maybe people who knows about this clearly can tell us, and that lakshman rekha was definitely not there in original text.

ya in mahabharat also some r added later, regarding cast and those comments favouring karn, all r added later, but these all r small episodes we can clearly see through these, but polyandry s big thing , the major reason y I believe s it’s pretty much basic part of story, and was talked and mentioned about this by all most all characters of the story, and many casual interactions between them , so all thess r pretty much interconnected rt? whenthe epic characters themselves r talking about them and their life, it’s not practically possible to change whole story and making whole characters talking about them.

Since y'all mentioned, may I ask a foolish question. What exactly is Uttar Ramayan? 🙈 My knowledge of Ramayan is pretty bad, all I know is via TV shows. I know this isn't Ramayan forum, but just because I saw the mention.

I'll edit if there's a problem.

Also, I believe interpolations are ones where we can see through have been added later.

For example, Drau's sutaputra comment. Even Karna himself never mentions this later on and almost all accepted versions state he failed, even KMG has a contradiction.

Cheerharan - the act of disrobing. Drau laments about her humiliation several times yet she doesn't mention the act of attempting to disrobe. She restricts to Dushashan's assaults of dragging her on court, the lewd remarks etc. Hence, it maybe an interpolation.

But polyandry is something that has been mentioned time and again in the text by several characters. I don't think it can be an interpolation.

Originally posted by: CaptainSpark

Since y'all mentioned, may I ask a foolish question. What exactly is Uttar Ramayan? 🙈 My knowledge of Ramayan is pretty bad, all I know is via TV shows. I know this isn't Ramayan forum, but just because I saw the mention.

I'll edit if there's a problem.

Also, I believe interpolations are ones where we can see through have been added later.

For example, Drau's sutaputra comment. Even Karna himself never mentions this later on and almost all accepted versions state he failed, even KMG has a contradiction.

Cheerharan - the act of disrobing. Drau laments about her humiliation several times yet she doesn't mention the act of attempting to disrobe. She restricts to Dushashan's assaults of dragging her on court, the lewd remarks etc. Hence, it maybe an interpolation.

But polyandry is something that has been mentioned time and again in the text by several characters. I don't think it can be an interpolation.

Uttar Kand of Ramayana written by Valmiki.

Ramanand Sagar made it into Uttar Ramayan.

Many people say that Uttar Kand is an interpolation as the meter/style of the poem does not match with earlier sections. Uttar kand is the section in which Rama banishes Sita into exile which is the major disturbing factor in an otherwise plain story of Ramayana.

Misogynists say Rama was right to banish Sita.

Apoligists say this never happened as uttar kand was Interpolation.

While some blame Rama.

Tulsi das wrote ramchartri manas till uttar kand only

Uttar kand is basically about crow definiing feature of kaliyug and shree ram becoming king of ayodhya Lord shiv cursing student as he insult his teacher

Then after uttar kand there is luv kush kand . This luv kush kand appear in valmki ramayan. Don't know about Tamil ramayan

Tulsi das didn't not include luv kush kand because he could not tolerate seperation between ram and sita and sita and luv kush

Sita staying in al valmki ashram. Birth of luv kush sita going inside earth these all things come under luv kush kand

But many says luv kush kand is interpolation

In ram charti manas tulsi das wrote till uttar kand where he tell about ram rajya abhishek and about crow telling kaliyug feature to garud ( eagle). There is no mention of sita banishment luv kush birth in tulsi das uttar kand

It is said that

Valmki ramayan wrote six kand from bal kand to yudh kand only in original text

And in valmki ramayan luv kush kand ( which is considered as interpolation)which tell about sita banishment n, sita going inside earth luv kush birth

Originally posted by: CaptainSpark

Since y'all mentioned, may I ask a foolish question. What exactly is Uttar Ramayan? 🙈 My knowledge of Ramayan is pretty bad, all I know is via TV shows. I know this isn't Ramayan forum, but just because I saw the mention.

I'll edit if there's a problem.

Also, I believe interpolations are ones where we can see through have been added later.

For example, Drau's sutaputra comment. Even Karna himself never mentions this later on and almost all accepted versions state he failed, even KMG has a contradiction.

Cheerharan - the act of disrobing. Drau laments about her humiliation several times yet she doesn't mention the act of attempting to disrobe. She restricts to Dushashan's assaults of dragging her on court, the lewd remarks etc. Hence, it maybe an interpolation.

But polyandry is something that has been mentioned time and again in the text by several characters. I don't think it can be an interpolation.

Uttar Ramayana here meant the Uttar kand in Valmiki Ramayana. Ironically it isn't found in one of the earliest manuscripts of Ramayana that we have today (from 6th century-- that is no proof though 6th is after years of actual happening, maybe the writer didn't like the idea of Sita parityag and hence omitted that part)

The poetic style of Uttar kand differs from the rest of the Ramayana making it difficult to believe that this has been written by the same person.

There are some bloopers in it, for example while the previous Kand mentioned at the end that Ram then ruled peacefully for years after his Rajyabhishek, but in Uttar kand suddenly there is the instance of Sita dosharopan and her exile. While previous Kand said that Pushpak viman was returned to Vibhishan after they reached Ayodhya, Uttar kand had people using it.

And then the one I mentioned above, about Shambhuk. Ramji gets an information about a Brahmins son having had died in early age. He reached out to find out the reason where he understood that a Shudra is reciting Vedic hymns in the state which is the cause of this misfortune. He leaves to check out about it where he finds a person reciting Vedas. He was doing it so beautifully that Ram got mesmerized, he goes to that person and asks for his name. The person says it's Shambhuk. Ramji says that his way of recitation is very good, and asks him if he is Brahmin or a Kshatriya, to which Shambhuk replies that he is a Shudra. Ramji can not accept it and within seconds he beheads Shambhuk.

This is so unreal, Ramji was a classmate to NishadRaj Guhya, these people were definitely taught Vedas in Gurukul, so he didn't have issues with not Brahmin and Kshatriya reciting Vedas earlier. He was fine to hear Vedas by a Vanar (Shudra is at least a human and Vanar would have been something even below that,) so him having issues with Shambhuk is so out of character

About second part, Andhe Ka Putra andha is not in the epic so that's not a point here, the rejection of Draupadi to Karna could or could not be true although I go with the second part, Vastraharan is the key to the entire episode. She was granted those boons because she was forced upon in the public, else others were silent on her becoming a Dasi, hence I do not feel that it would have been an interpolation. Rather I feel it has somehow been concealed because the story was being narrated to get step greatgrandson. Either it happened completely or someone came at the last moment to stop it

Uttar ramayan s about sita ji exile and luv kush birth. Both valmiki and uttar ramayan characters acts differently not just ramji but others also, I don’t know weather whole plot s interpolation r not but some points r really out of place, ram ji s already friends with low cast people, and loved vanars, treated even raskhas kindly, and ate jhoota khaana of shabari in forest. But uttar ramayan says he beheaded shudra because he was reciting vedas, and after this the brahmin guy who lost his life gets his life back dramatically, this s definitely interpolation, just like that there r different episodes which r out of place. That’s y people r not sure about uttar ramayan.

cheer haran s also key point, I think it happened , because after this only maharaj started feeling bad omens and gets scared and desperately asks Draupadi to asks for boons, when she was made dasi he didn’t mind that, but it’s after this he started feeling scared of her curses and gives her boons.

and main part s it’s no duryodhan r dhusaasan who started cheer haran but it’s karna who started it, it came from his mouth first, he says a woman who stays with five men s not chaste so agar vo vastr pehne ya na pehne koi farak nahi padtha, so dussasan take off her clothes, so it pretty much happened I think, if it’s not true karna supporters would have done everything to remove that, as they already added so much later. Karna s the who started it. Maharaj didn’t care about them being dasi and das he started giving boons asking her desperately ask for more because something big happened there.

Anyway down years many points were omitted and added some later.

may be king wasn’t comfortable hearing about his ancestor cheer haran again and again, that’s y they might have not mentioned after dyut sabha again and again.

I think some arrangement was there who shares her bed, but that doesn’t mean she don’t see her husband’s face r that she don’t spend time with them outside her bedroom, the rule most probably was not sharing bed, that’s it outside room she can spend time with them and took care of them, here subhadra, Draupadi , Krishna and arjun r having gud time that’s it, they r not sharing bed .

some one here said after giving each one child, they didn’t follow any rules.

Originally posted by: FlauntPessimism

About second part, Andhe Ka Putra andha is not in the epic so that's not a point here, the rejection of Draupadi to Karna could or could not be true although I go with the second part, Vastraharan is the key to the entire episode. She was granted those boons because she was forced upon in the public, else others were silent on her becoming a Dasi, hence I do not feel that it would have been an interpolation. Rather I feel it has somehow been concealed because the story was being narrated to get step greatgrandson. Either it happened completely or someone came at the last moment to stop it

Yeah, I don't think I mentioned andhe ka putra andha because that is neither interpolation nor folktale. It's a fan fiction material part of some play.

Vastraharan episode is not an interpolation but this act of trying to strip her might be a later addition. The rest still stands. I think after Karna suggested it, no body actually went forward and tried to disrobe her.

Coming back to the main point, there are too many points to prove polyandry existed and it has been mentioned several times in the epic. If one tells me every single time it is mistranslation or interpolation then I am simply not taking in that goofy talk.