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bscorp13 thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#21

Originally posted by: -K.13-



Thanks - I was honestly a little scared to post it but man everyone was quiet preleap & suddenly anyone who openly accepts & doesn't question Ishita is good and rest bad? How does that make sense? Does that mean it just takes being nice & not asking questions to be forgiven?

Idk I feel bad bc would any mother ever see this coming? Even if she attempted suicide, survived alone for a few years, and then reached out to her parents...what could've happened? Bc on the other side - what if one of the parents passed away out of shock/grief among many other possibilities?

Again I probably sound bitter to many, but I don't find either Ishita or Raman or anyone else for that matter as individuals appealing. I just know ultimately we'll get IshRa - so what's the best way a viewer can comes to term with that?


@ bold this is pure gold krishy👏..exactly my sentiments...all characters in the show seemed to be 'loved' or 'hated' based on their allegiance to one character. ..very narrow view and I am notb even talking about raman here...
-Anku- thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#22
Zoya 🤗

I hadn't seen the Pre leap scene, those accusations and I had been safe. I happened to watch yesterdays episode and ever since I can't seem to shrug off the feeling of disgust, confusion, sadness over what they made YHM into...destroyed every relation, every positive influence or aspect related to this show to justify a leap. But I've come across a brilliant write up from you and can't seem to avoid replying to it.

I have always been team IshRa, always understood and been able to justify them both. And even in spite of the fact that Raman is so severely flawed and complex...I have a soft corner, that tend to gets partial to him. And for that same reason I tried and tried and kept trying to justify his words and actions to myself.

Many people or even I myself would question this. Question my moral standing, of how much of a feminist I am if I am trying to root for IshRa even after all this? But it all comes back to the same thing, this is FICTION, this isn't real and these are characters made out of good and bad, where sometimes the good overpowers and sometimes the bad. So I keep trying to want to understand Raman, want Ishita to take stands, want a redemption from the man for the venom he has been spewing.


Thank you for clarifying, or reasoning why Raman would be like this, be a man whose so hurtful, dark and dead. He's lost his light, his two most important people. He has felt agony and the 7 years of that pain and turmoil was so much to bear that he unburdened it. He has lost a child that breaks the best of two people apart. And yesterday he happened to get a Deja vu, where he felt he was back to the moment 7 years back...All these reasons may never be an excuse but are certainly part of how emotions network in certain people.

But then again my brain somehow keeps coming back to the fact that now or even 7 years ago when that accident happened,when they lost Ruhi. Why did Raman think Ishita could ever harm Ruhi? How did he conclude she's ominous? Has he forgotten that if not for her, he wouldn't have either of his kids had it not been for her? She sacrificed her own life so many times to save them? Ishita is more than a mother to them...I'd like for this to be explained to me. Because I genuinely want to feel better about it.

P.S - I still root for IshRa, they maybe toxic and in a real world they should be sentenced to a lifetime of imprisonment so that they both stop messing with each other and the world 😆 But I still root for them, because they are characters far more realistic than various others like you said, they are dark, flawed and complex...but they're just characters. Only I wish that the narrative didn't compromise so heavily on morals I can't seem to shrug off.

And most importantly, I totally agree when you say this isn't beauty and the beast. I keep taunting the show for using that concept but even I believe, Raman isn't a beast, but was helped to face his true self by Ishita who needed to be herself too and the relation helped her do that ( in better times)
-Gan- thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#23
Krishy and Anoo...👏👏
I love both of your perspectives .. YHM is in such a mangled concoction ..it highlights the adage two wrongs never make it right... And yes proportion may vary but fault lies in both our protagonists .. And this needs to be addressed .. But will it be? The question remains.. And if the bidaai pics are an indicator, probably not ...
Yeah my expectation from the Cvs of anything reasonable as far as IshRa is concerned , is pretty low.. So I pick and choose what to rant about and what not ...

@Zoya wonderful post.. Opening up some scope of good debate 😳
-K.13- thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#24

Originally posted by: bscorp13



@ bold this is pure gold krishy👏..exactly my sentiments...all characters in the show seemed to be 'loved' or 'hated' based on their allegiance to one character. ..very narrow view and I am notb even talking about raman here...



There is no fault in that bc even my first instinct is that...it's I try to see the other POVs. That's how I like to think I've kept myself team IshRa until now bc one coin always has 2 sides (no comment on culpability or anything) - just that there are two sides to everything & they aren't always just right or wrong.
-Anku- thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#25
Just to add... I hate if this discussion will lead to Ishita versus Raman. In my opinion both are flawed, both have made mistakes. Yes the mistake of one is far greater than the other, but I am team IshRa and I am going to think of them and all characters together. Not going to demonize or victimize one character and make teams.
-Silencia- thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#26

Originally posted by: -K.13-

I'm shocked that Amma is looked down upon for being hurt and angry

How else would one react? 7 years of mourning her loss, of living in guilt, isn't enough punishment for a mother? If Ishita has suffered away from her kids and family, did Amma not suffer from losing her daughter? How could anyone have predicted that Ishita would've taken a dramatic step?

Literally no one stood up for Ishita. Romi only yelled after being accused yet everyone praised him for siding with the Iyers. The Iyers were praised and seen as the suffering end of the Iyer-Bhalla war, but now Toshiji and co are in the right bc they warmly accepted Ishita.

They all - from Raman to the silent spectators - are culpable for the suicide attempt. But what if in the time after Ishita left, her parents died of a heart attack out of shock/grief of losing a grandchild and daughter? Who would've been responsible there?

It's about perspective. Amma will come around & soon enough from wedding snaps, but she expected more from her daughter, and no matter how you look at it Ishita made an error too.

Raman's error is 1000x worse but that does not absolve Ishita bc in my mind, if another's mistake is used to mask yours...it immediately takes away your strength and ability to live up to your error.

On screen maybe not through a direct admission like Raman's will be...Ishita will through her actions own up to her mistake, so why do we viewers make her a bechari in our discussions? Bc she is not and once she gets her steam back on screen - she will be farthest from it.

I understand how Ishita feels unloved and broken completely as a mother due to Raman's words, but where there no options? Once her attempt failed, was there really no other route for Ishita? What would you expect if this was your relative?

I am 100% guilty am for trying to find an ounce of hope in Raman - I too want him to own up to his mistake bc it will suck for both characters if they come back together without this bc if you want to watch - that is the ultimate reality of the show - IshRa & their kids.

You may find me a basher or hater & I get it. My point wasn't to offend...trust me, but how is Amma's hurt not rational?

I will 100% admit Raman is a wrong and perpetrator of Ishita's no matter his inner voice as 100s of posts have already outlined, but for me that does not absolve Ishita either. And that's why Amma's shock/hurt makes sense.

The ONLY characters honestly that are absolved of any blame are Adi, Ruhi, Pihu, Sharvan, & Aliya. They had nothing to do in this mess of adults.

Life isn't black or white, right or wrong...it's grey and in this scenario Raman is closer to black while Ishita is grey.

Honestly I am sorry if I offended anyone...but Ishita vs. Raman always happens & I want to think of it as Raman's errors and Ishita's errors as individuals bc what does comparing the magnitude of errors do?


Krishy, you spoke my mind, while I have been confused as to how to put this sentiment across.

From what I see, this situation is NOT Raman vs Ishita. This is, like their happy circumstances, Raman AND Ishita. They're both responsible mature individuals who erred big time. The magnitude of one's mistake does NOT absolve the other of her mistake.

It was obviously upsetting to see the words Raman uttered again, where would expect him to be angry at her but hold his venomous tongue at that. He gets all brickbats for that, and more. He pushed her to commit suicide, he pushed her to stay away from her kids.

But that in no way justifies Ishita's actions. And even though I understand her fear of rejection and loneliness, it does not give her the liberty to take her parents for granted and do a vanishing act on them. In the heat of the moment, both the characters took a turn for the worse, and it does not imply that one's worse of being at a 100 automatically makes the other a 0, when it is not 0.

@bold - Words! You spilled gold right here, and I couldn't agree more.
-K.13- thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#27

Originally posted by: -Gan-

Krishy and Anoo...👏👏

I love both of your perspectives .. YHM is in such a mangled concoction ..it highlights the adage two wrongs never make it right... And yes proportion may vary but fault lies in both our protagonists .. And this needs to be addressed .. But will it be? The question remains.. And if the bidaai pics are an indicator, probably not ...
Yeah my expectation from the Cvs of anything reasonable as far as IshRa is concerned , is pretty low.. So I pick and choose what to rant about and what not ...

@Zoya wonderful post.. Opening up some scope of good debate😳



Thanks, Gan! ❤️

Ahh yes I did see those video images & don't think both sides will be addressed - which as a viewer would've left me hanging like get well soon party, pseduo-surrogacy confrontation, or bhoot track end did...but alas despite being royally conflicted over IshRa - being emotionally reinvested in either Ishita or Raman seems to me a mistake of large proportions!

At least we will find some fulfillment by the end with at least Raman attempting to accept or if the Cvs wanted, to own up to his disgusting crap by the end of this track
Edited by -K.13- - 9 years ago
infinity00 thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#28
Absolutely 100%agree with Krishi ... I am also surprised and some what hurt seeing the young lot questioning Amma's reaction ... The rest , you said it all my dear ... Loving these good views , and again agree it should not be about Raman vs Ishita , it should be Raman and Ishita .
serendipity. thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#29
wow! Surprisingly, i havent seen you in the forum before, and nor am i very active here now either but WOW! this topic deserves a standing ovation if not more... what brilliance... everything that youve stated... WORD to that, and its so beautifully put... i seldom see posts that make so much sense, i hold the same POV, but if theres any person who does not hold the same POV, im sure this post would change theirs and theyd agree to it and make sense of it. I absolutely understand Raman, the agony, and like you, ive found Raman to be much more realistic each time... i love the character... its Raman and IshRa for me...
Raman has always been brutal with words... he has never had a proper control on his anger and time and again he has said brutal stuff to the people closest to him.. and he's regretted it bigtime. Doesnt Ishita know him? Didnt Ishita know him? she chose this for herslef... yes he is a difficult man to be with but hes the most wonderful too. NOT shying away from owning the fact that he RUINED SO MUCH by saying all that shit to her but The fact that she left her son and husband (and family) in such a crisis... when theyd lost Ruhi... the most most most difficult phase in their life... she'd attempted suicide, like a coward, and further showed cowardice by actually going farther away from them.. so damn far that she couldnt even keep a check on them... she had formed a sweet little family for herself out there when her own family was cracking.. shattering.. breaking... bit by bit...
and then, after 7long years, she comes back... idk how else would the family react... idk how else would Raman react... all those emotions of happiness, relief, remorse, anger, and so many other emotions that i cant even name... naturally he went through hell and lost almost everything including his most priced possessions, HER and Ruhi... how would he reac any different!?

However, the show has become really interesting now... with Adi being the mature one like Ruhi was in the past and Ruhi... playing/doing wht Adi did as a child... DE JA VU indeed...
Edited by serendipity. - 9 years ago
Zoyamalik2005 thumbnail
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Posted: 9 years ago
#30

Originally posted by: Anuhyaa

After an exhausting episode, Iam so glad to read your take..
Thank You for writing this.

If before he was living in the guilt of driving his wife to suicide through his words and suffering in pain...then seeing her again,the only person who can turn back everything and make it all right stand infront of him, but not with him and not even looking at him..Imagine what would do that to him.

Even before he grasped that she is alive, he is pushed into the realization that she abandoned him...yet again someone abandoned him..& that somebody is who he felt would never do that to him.

After that any rational conversation would be flushed out of his brain...& like you mentioned he was trying to hurt her at her weakest, I guess.

He even knew why she went away in his heart of hearts..that is why he didn't give her a chance to explain..even if he did she was not ready as it is.. but he killed all the arguments even before she can think about them..

But I draw the line here...I refuse to understand his words that spew after that...I didn't understand them 7 years back..I don't understand them now...Heck, I didn't even get him puting all the blame of Ruhi's death on her.
Dear writers, please don't give Raman the words...let KP do all the talking with his eyes...It would be so much better to us that way.

The person, a mere body who is living the pain embodying the words...yet again failed to stand up for herself on the onslaught of his words..

Some one who never felt Adi & Ruhi are not her children by birth..who could sense their distress even before they voiced it out..who saved them time and again over herself... who was content with them at the face of losing her own child..who never felt the need to give birth to her own flesh and blood as she already has those children.. who was ready to die rather than run away with him so that the kids would have atleast one parent... was yet again made into a banjh and manoohs...

After the miscarriage Ashok taunted Raman with the same words, who then couldn't take it and broke down in the middle of the road..& she reassured him that it doesn't matter even if the whole world thinks that way because I know Iam not..because you don't see me that away..& now that same man succeeded in wiping off her very existence where 100 Ashok Khannas couldn't do it..
The same man who has taken her into the high is pushing her into the abyss..
There lies the impasse...

You have so aptly put..comparing this to beauty & beast is trivializing the emotions & the show..It never was & it never will be...It's always about two people who loved each other and transformed each others lives beyond measure...

Dear cvs, I can take his suffering but not his cruelty ...I can take her grieving but not, her not standing up for herself...
& please don't give him a bottle and send him into the rain after all this as his redemption to solve all their problems ..Where have we seen that before?
& worse please don't make it all into a joke of "Madrasan, 7 saal mein tum moti hogaye ho."

It's so unfair to them, to us & all our emotions...Please let them mend it through open eyes and being fully awake this time around.

Iam quoting Rumi again, which is so apt from Ishita to Raman..
"Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field... I'll meet you there."




@ bold: WORD. GOD, i hope so.

a wonderful response 😊



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