Love & Parenthood - IshRa

EkPaheli thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#1
Okay so this post has been on my mind since the episode on Friday night but laziness and life got in the way until I finally decided to tackle both ...I know there have been plenty of posts that have come up on the episode on Friday which featured IshRa' most beautiful conversation till date as per me. Some have hated the convo, others have loved it - I fall into the latter camp of course.

And somehow I am glad I waited for Saturday night because otherwise I wouldn't have something to add to this post which I believe is vital - I am not gonna go into the handhold and the BIG QUESTION part here, but the other major thing. Though I must say I did find the use of the word junoon in Ishita' response quite interesting; quite a foreshadowing it seems and kudos to the writer for that. Ishita definitely would be the woman who would make Raman live the two extremes of love - junoon and sukoon - madness and bliss to their utmost extent.

As the title of my post implies, it's about love and also parenthood - the love that a parent feels for his/her child; which is considered to be the most selfless, giving and unconditional love in the world. However most of the times all these qualities are particularly associated with a mother' love but YHM is exploring the unventured zone over here that of a father' love.

I am unable to remember the date or season, but in an episode of Koffee with Karan SRK was quoted as saying - the decision to have a child is like allowing a piece of your soul to walk out of your body - I found that so beautiful, so amazing to hear.

It was the sentiment a father expressed about what he feels for his children.

RKB, his actions brought back this statement to me.

In Friday' episode the man who conversed fondly with Shagun was Aditya' father and not her ex-husband or even the man who once loved her, but the father who still loves and will always love his child. Yes, he acts unreasonably out of that love sometimes and people term it as his obsession for Adi, but is the love of a parent logical? Can it be bound or understood? No, something's in life are inexplicable, but it necessarily does not make them unimportant at all. Sometimes the most amazing things are felt not understood. Which is what is happening here - RKB, as a man is now primarily a father - he loves both his kids with all his heart and soul - for Aditya, he bears Shagun and her nonsense as much as he can, for Ruhi he begrudgingly agreed to marry Ishita - a woman he loathed then.

On Friday, Ishita asked Raman to respect Shagun - the biological mother of his children and Saturday night, he did that - he was polite to Shagun, courteous as much as possible.

It made me wonder for a while if it is all Ishita' doing, her reasoning that got to Raman finally, if so it was the miracle of miracles, until it struck me, she didn't appeal to Raman - as was evident the moment he made a face when Shagun departed... she appealed to the father in him.

Raman, as a person, a man will never forgive Shagun, nor should he - yes, he should let bygones be bygones, but forgiveness does not come easy always and in some cases never at all. However, the father in him can definitely try to do what Ishita asked of him - even if only for the sake of his children, which is exactly what happened.

The man who had said sorry and thank you to Shagun and the one who was nice to her was the father in Raman, who understood what Ishita said was right, there is no point in insulting Shagun time and again, especially if it affects his children in an adverse way each time he reacts angrily. The fake suicide fiasco showed him how Shagun in her ego and pride was blind to the fact how things might and did affect her son, and Raman saw how scared his son was thinking his mom might die.

Ishita invaded Raman' space with one heartfelt conversation and how! It was not a hostile takeover, rather to me it seemed more like Ishita bringing down a huge wall that Raman had built around himself, his heart - once Shagun left him. She shattered his defenses and he was powerless to stop her, not because she overpowered him, no rather she gave him something he longed for so much - the assurance he isn't alone.

The most beautiful aspect of this scene was when Ishita said everyone who is related to Ruhi is now her responsibility too, since she came into his family as Ruhi' mom, she married him for that. What she said was the truth over here, but what is the most important is she said she is now responsible for Adi and Raman too - something which he never had before. In his previous marriage we have seen how Raman was the one always shown as being the caregiver, caretaker - but he was never looked after, in this one conversation he heard something that he was living these days, that he is isn't alone, he is being looked after, someone considers him important.

He cried in front of her because she moved him - she didn't berate him, fight with him or even chide him - she understood him, she supported him - a first for Raman. He never had that before even with the woman he loved and hence cried, though he tried to hide it... and he finally acknowledged once the tears were wiped away, she seems samajdaar to him - the words were spoken in a lighter way, as jesting but they were an admittance! Someone finally understood him and that, THAT defeated him somehow... the fact that someone saw through him at last! And her reply she was born intelligent - it was her reply in a subtext - try me, talk to me, I can help you, understand you... but you have to let me in for any and all of that.

Actions speak louder than words, but words nonetheless have an importance of their own and hearing them is as important as saying them sometimes.

Shagun was the first woman Raman loved, she became his wife, the mother of his children but she failed to do something in all the years of their marriage which Ishita accomplished in one conversation she became Raman' companion in the truest sense of the term, she gave him the assurance he never had before - that he has someone with him in all walks of life, standing tall with him, shouldering his responsibilities as much... in that one conversation - Ishita managed to win over Raman and also made a place for herself as the mother of BOTH his kids, not just one.

A real relationship isn't one where you always laugh and have a good time, when you allow someone to see your tears, baring the most vulnerable part of you - you are giving over a piece of yourself to them, you are trusting them Raman did that and also, he heard from Ishita what no one said to him so far - respect Shagun, let go of all your emotions for her... she asked him to forgive her without saying the words and by extension she asked him to STOP hurting himself, so long as he isn't at peace with himself, he will be miserable and that is what was the point of respect Shagun agenda... allowing Raman his chance to heal.

He was humbled by her offer to parent his son as well, a child he knows hates her... a child she has no reason to love, one she doesn't even know well. Hence, last night he got another insight into her - one which made him be in awe of her all over again! He never could have asked of her to do anything for Adi - but she is already doing so, and it is because he is Raman' child, a part of him... she is slowly and steadily touching every aspect of Raman that makes his heart beat - that makes him who he is.

While Shagun has repeatedly hurt Raman her biggest blow to him has been taking away his son from him, manipulating and using Adi to hurt his own father, since his children are his vulnerability. Interestingly it his children that are making him bond with Ishita time and again, if Ruhi acted as the reason these two came together in the first place - it would be Ishita' gesture, one where she extended her willingness and co-operation to parent Aditya, that would make them closer than ever...

Ironically when Subbu chose to break ties with Ishita he had said love fades from a marriage within a couple of years but two people still stay connected and together because of their children, if Ishita is unable to provide him the reason to stay long term in a marriage why should he marry her at all?

On the other end, we see Shagun, the woman who gave birth to two kids but could not stay back in her marriage for either of them. She left her husband for the riches of another man, and now in another woman that man is finding the mother of his children -one who did not give birth to them and yet, it is she, who is binding his family closer than ever before, allowing him to make some sense of his scattered life and self-worth. She became instrumental in making a father realize the love he has for his daughter, which has paved way to the beautiful relationship they now share. The little girl who once was so scared of her own father who longed to merely talk to him, now bosses him around so completely and he lets her.

It would be Ishita once again who somehow would connect the father with the son and in the process...not only would she have gained another child, become a mother once again, she would finally completely heal the damaged man she married making him fall in love with her beyond reason and bounds.

For this time around when Raman Bhalla would fall in love with a woman it would not be owing to the superficial beauty that she has that would tempt him, but the beauty of her heart and soul that would humble him. It won't be a man falling in love with his wife, rather it would be Ruhi and Aditya' father who would fall irrevocably in love with the woman who is being their mother in the truest sense of the term.
Edited by EkPaheli - 11 years ago

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Colt.Pixy thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#2
mind blowing post.
well done anni for pointing towards " junoon". i feel it is indicating junoon of love,like if you ll love some one you will try your level best and you will go beyond your limits to support,to help, to co ordinate and to cheer up that person and make his life like divine. like she went to make chicken i.e. just example or she thinks that the level raman loves his children it s actual junoon ( take in positive way) and that level should be in their mutual relation!!

one more thing in saturday episode i noticed was your analysis in sync with friday episode you had done. it slipped from my mind that day after watching episode that was struck me in first place. here now replying . yes, you had said

she married him for that. What she said was the truth over here, but whats the most important is she said she is now responsible for Adi and Raman too - something which he never had before. In his previous marriage we have seen how Raman was the one always shown as being the caregiver, caretaker - but he was never looked after, in this one conversation he heard something that he was living these days, that is isn't alone, he is being looked after, someone considers him as important enough too.

this came again in my mind when raman said " will you let me go alone for blood test?" that showed he was considering her as care taker of him .

yes he insults her,adi goes more far from him,but if he stops insulting her,shagun can't make reason to even adi that your father is insulting me, the day shagun did suicide attempt, raman was hurt to see adi facing all his kid is going through such things in little age, that is horrible in my view too . ishita tried to put full stop in this by making him soft towards shagun, adi will not go through again this situation and raman will also not hurt and disturbed to see him vulnerable as father . i really appreciate ishita s step to make raman more stable and happy.

in deep thoughts some where i feel ishita was feeling she was also responsible for adi s situation in suicide trauma. may be may be because in root simi wanted ishita to cry,she permitted shagun to irk raman,raman got irked, he insulted shagun and shagun did suicide that affected adi in chain.so may be ishita thought to break this chain by making raman respecting shagun. just my doubt. i am not sure about it.

and through bala also ishita is only factor who will bring close raman and adi😉 am really excited and looking forward for this track.

yes you said it right, raman will fall for adi and ruhi s mom (i.e. ishita) with all junoon 😉
Edited by ZenerDiode - 11 years ago
shalu79 thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#3
reserved :)
Hey Anni,
The way u express emotions n feelings muaaahhh.
love u.
Wonderful post.
beautifully written as always.

As i told u earlier after I saw that epi I was so overwhelmed. I just loved that entire conv so much. It was like bitter-sweet pain in heart. Though Ishu was hurt n really felt bad for her. But that entire conv was so beautifully conceived n KP n DT were terrific in it. It was very important episode in POV of progression of Ishra relation.
I seriously wanted to know ur n Lucky's views on this episode (Lucky's view I read on Vyas's topic bt urs I couldn't find). That's why I PMed both of u.
Remember I ve mentioned in earlier comment to ur OS, That i m waiting for the day when Raman will be indifferent to Shagun. the day when he would not get so affected by her. And the way Ishu made him realize abt Shagun made him understand that he has to let go any feelings for her was awesome. n Next episode was like continuation of this whole track they purposely had that Raman's blood test(U know I was wondering why ramn's blooad test for Stem cell banking) to show us how Raman has changed towards Shagun after that one conv with Ishu on that topic. 👏👏👏
And really agree with u this way not only Ishu become true companion to Raman but also mother to Adi.
Loved how u mentioned the reason Subbu broke up with Ishu will be reason for Raman-Ishita to come together.👏
My only regret was Raman didn't say something abt Ishu's fertilty issue like u dont ve to give birth to be mother or something like that but nxt day he did say "bachoo ko kasie handle karna hai yeh koi Ishita se sikhe". But on other hand I think it was not d time for that. CVs will handle each n every aspect when the right time will come. But till know IshRa r not in any physical relation n both does not seems to be ready for it too. So, Ishu saying that she cant give child to raman was like little bit confusing for me. I mean is she ready for that.
Anyway, I am amazed with CVs for giving us two very special episode consecutively.

Thank u Anni for this wonderful post.🤗
Always eager to read from u

Edited by shalu79 - 11 years ago
alwaysaTVFan thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#4
Res

***EDITED

Hey Aani

I was wondering where you were during the episodes when there were so many posts discussing 'the' conversations 😉 I was too tied up to make my own post too. But I did express some views on other people's posts. And I can now see that I was very close to your analysis too 😃 (except for the Junoon part! That was after I made my comments)

So, I am being real lazy now 😛 and copying my comments from other another post. and hope you havent read them before, so it will feel new to you. If you have already read them, then you already know I agree with whatever you said 😊

My response to a Post Shivu made in defence of Raman's comments and then Ishita's mahaanta when she asked him to treat Shagun with courtesy >>

********

I dont like it that I am terribly short of time. I would have loved to write a Ramayan (correction- Mahabharat) reply for this one. Anyway, I'll try to express what I have to say as succinctly as possible

Shivu... need I say ? apt post... I havent read the 5 pages of comments, but I am sure your post sparked a healthy debate.

Now, my take on the first half of yesterday's epi was:

I saw a father being manipulated (very cleverly) by the mother of his child. I saw a father reminded of the happy moments he'd shared with the mother of his first-born. I saw a father feeling guilty for not paying enough attention to renew contract which was something he had smartly 'invested' in a long time ago.

I saw the mother manipulating the father of her children to trap him into a web of guilt, shame and regret. I saw a mother using a child as a pawn to fulfill her narcissistic tendencies. I saw a regretful woman not letting a man move on, only because she hasn't been able to.

I saw a woman not being sure of her place in a man's life. I saw a woman who heard a conversation between a former couple. I saw a woman see that former couple reminisce the happy moments in their life and immediate feel the pain of her emptiness. I saw a woman who knew she couldn't participate in that kind of happiness with that man, irrespective of her 'adopting' his children.

So, long story short, I was completely void of any negativity when the episode finished. I did not see anything that I had objection to. I said this is another post, but Shagun was so good yesterday that I even felt sorry for her for a minute.

Everything Raman said and did was in the context of being a father. At least that's what I took away from the episode. Everything Ishita said and did was in the context of her being a caring woman, a woman who is more a mother than Shagun will ever be. What is there to hate?

Ishita and Raman are frankly 2 broken souls. They need to heal. Whether they love each other or not is neither here nor there. They are 2 broken people put together into a triage room with all the equipment to fix their wounds. How they pick up the various medicines and apply them on each other is what this story is all about. So, again, whats there to hate?

********

What I added on Vyas' Rajma Idli post on Friday >>

********

I am a happy person today. Ishita & Raman's relationship was at the forefront of most of the episode! And all of it was handled with a mature, heart-felt conversation. It was so surreal that I had to keep craning my neck towards the TV to get a better hearing angle! I couldn't believe the conversation was that perfect. And by perfect I mean it wasnt rosy at all, it was quite realistic.

Who'd have thought that Adi's important date would circle back to the discussion about Ishita's infertility. Nicely done indeed! "You know I could never give you that happiness, and if you were looking for that, why did you marry me Raman?" My God, that line even made me choke up. That issue is the crux of this show, and it was handled excellently today.

And the way Ishita steered that conversation around to how she wanted to be a part of everything related to Ruhi (she included Ruhi's brother and Ruhi's father very cleverly into the conversation, smart woman!). I dont think Raman could believe his luck, and I believe his tear represented gratitude, relief, respect, admiration for the woman sitting in front of him.


Although Shagun wanted to put a dent in Ishita and Raman's relationship, most of what she said was in fact true. The concern from Raman, his guilt was genuine. I would have been disappointed if either of them were flippant about this issue!

Circling back to that conversation, I think it was quite sensitively handled. I only said yesterday, that Shagun has so much potential and they should start using her more than just a 'bimbo' with failed plans. Her 'act' in front of Raman today was done quite well. Even I believed for a minute that she was actually hurt because she thought her son was being ignored by his father! And honestly, I didnt mind that Raman thanked and apologised to SHagun. Her guilt trip was that good!

*********

Finally Aani, your post is perfect. and the last paragraph touched me 👏! Seriously, I hadn't thought of it that way at all.

And a quote for you about how Ishita seems to have finally, successfully, gently broken the barriers he had put up for everyone 😊

"The brick walls are there for a reason. The brick walls are not there to keep us out. The brick walls are there to give us a chance to show how badly we want something. Because the brick walls are there to stop the people who don't want it badly enough. They're there to stop the other people." - Randy Pausch, The Last Lecture

Edited by always_a_TV_fan - 11 years ago
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Posted: 11 years ago
#5
Well fabulous post aani

I also liked the conversation

I liked the fact the most that stuff they discussed in that conversation is not something you would discuss in compromise and sirf Ruhi ke liye type marriage and it has moved beyond that

What makes this pair special is that it was made by daughter and if you look at it that their relationship is going in reverse order to normal so first they had kid then got married then respect now understanding and friendship and love later as compared to normal couple

Well I do think that he slightly hurt ishita by talking about not being father again to Shagun and if in conv he had tried to reassure her when she was talking about infertility it would have been perfect what do you think
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Posted: 11 years ago
#6
Awesome post, nailed the emotions.
I personally admire ishita's character after Friday's episode, she amazed me the way she handled this critical situation and made raman understand her pov.

Simply love it..
Edited by dazzpari - 11 years ago
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Posted: 11 years ago
#7
Reserved
Hi. 😊
Thanks so much for your post. I agree with your analysis. In fact, I wanted to post something along similar lines called "what changed for Raman ".
Ishita and Raman have had touching and meaningful conversations in the past too, but this one, on the bench, really stood out for me. When Ishita said that it is bad that you forgot about Adi and worse that I did not even know about this date, something changed in the conversation. She became Adi's mother also, not just Ruhi's. A stepmother, yes, but a mother nonetheless. When she spoke of their co-ordinsting in matters related to Adi, Raman looked away and then wiped a tear from his eye. After that, he just couldn't look at her any more. What she said and did far surpassed, I think anything that he had ever expected from her. I think it changed the nature of their relationship in that he would still be the same (loving her parents, teasing her eye.) even if she were only to be the best mother for Ruhi. By taking on Adi as her responsibility, as their responsibility together, she is pushing not just get own comfort zone but making him push his too.
Edited by Vedika211 - 11 years ago
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Posted: 11 years ago
#8
😊aahhh amazinggg post..👏
EkPaheli thumbnail
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Posted: 11 years ago
#9

Originally posted by: shalu79

reserved :)

Hey Anni,
The way u express emotions n feelings muaaahhh.
love u.
Wonderful post.
beautifully written as always.

Thanks a lot Shalu 😊

As i told u earlier after I saw that epi I was so overwhelmed. I just loved that entire conv so much. It was like bitter-sweet pain in heart. Though Ishu was hurt n really felt bad for her. But that entire conv was so beautifully conceived n KP n DT were terrific in it. It was very important episode in POV of progression of Ishra relation.

I know man the epi gave me goosebumps especially the way the whole convo was done and thankfully it was sans the stereotypical melodrama, but rather a moment just for IshRa alone. I am so happy Ekta is finally making shows which have a realness in them. And I cannot applaud the whole team enough for the scene - be it the actors DivAn or the writers and director - every aspect of the scene was spot on!


I seriously wanted to know ur n Lucky's views on this episode (Lucky's view I read on Vyas's topic bt urs I couldn't find). That's why I PMed both of u.

☺️ I found Ruby' post the closest thing to my POV and hence replied there and since you have read that one already you know a major part of this post is from the reply I made there 😳

Remember I ve mentioned in earlier comment to ur OS, That i m waiting for the day when Raman will be indifferent to Shagun. the day when he would not get so affected by her. And the way Ishu made him realize abt Shagun made him understand that he has to let go any feelings for her was awesome.

Yep, that we have discussed and I think the makers do read our threads even FFs and hence they included this thing finally in the show, since this was something that was very much needed - the need for Raman to realize he cannot keep on berating Shagun, cos every time he does that - even in insulting her, he allows himself to be affected by her.


n Next episode was like continuation of this whole track they purposely had that Raman's blood test(U know I was wondering why ramn's blooad test for Stem cell banking) to show us how Raman has changed towards Shagun after that one conv with Ishu on that topic. 👏👏👏

yep that was the point of showing it and also with the handhold thing the makers wonderfully let on how now Raman has let Ishita in, not only is she the only one he trusts enough to let her see his tears but also his fears even childish ones 😳

And really agree with u this way not only Ishu become true companion to Raman but also mother to Adi.

that she did and if you notice closely his lips sorta quiver when she mentions the coordination thing, like he wants to cry because of what is happening here but reigns himself in, wonderful job by KP there 👏👏

Loved how u mentioned the reason Subbu broke up with Ishu will be reason for Raman-Ishita to come together.👏

This actually came to me because Ishita mentioned about her infertility and how everyone who has come in her life has accepted that even if unwillingly and then she said those are her issues and problems alone, it made me think of Subbu and his words to her when he broke up and I couldnt help but compare 😳

My only regret was Raman didn't say something abt Ishu's fertilty issue like u dont ve to give birth to be mother or something like that but nxt day he did say "bachoo ko kasie handle karna hai yeh koi Ishita se sikhe". But on other hand I think it was not d time for that. CVs will handle each n every aspect when the right time will come. But till know IshRa r not in any physical relation n both does not seems to be ready for it too. So, Ishu saying that she cant give child to raman was like little bit confusing for me. I mean is she ready for that.

You know Shalu on a level yes it is confusing but I think its clear too - she said if he wished to be a dad again why marry her when he knew the truth of her infertility all along? Indirectly she wanted to know if he regrets marrying her now, so while he could not make much of a reply he did respond to her by saying she has her own place in his life and Adi his, none can affect the other which is true. She is his wife and he is her son, he cant equate them in anyway both have their own importance and also the fact she said meri life, mere issues - I think it made him not speak up much. Clearly they have come closer but not so much that he can tell her that it doesn't matter to him she is infertile, not when she still calls the issue as only her own and excludes everyone from it. She has locked herself in this issue, someday Raman will tackle that but not now. Physical intimacy is of course vital to this whole point but the pain and sadness that Ishita feels needs to be dealt with emotionally, and IshRa aren't there yet emotionally too. This one thing has made Ishita feel a lot of complex about herself, she had hoped the man she loved would stand by her but when even he abandoned her she lost any and all hope anyone would understand her at all forget love her. Only when Raman is in love with Ishita can he address this point with the kind of authority that it would be required, since then he would be the one who would have to do the work here, to bring down Ishita' walls 😳

Anyway, I am amazed with CVs for giving us two very special episode consecutively.

Thank u Anni for this wonderful post.🤗
Always eager to read from u

thanks once again Shalu 🤗and CVs are doing an awesome job with the show for sure

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Posted: 11 years ago
#10
Great post!
Today is my lucky day. Just read Ashu's update and now this post. Awesome!!!! YHM rocks. All those pictures and awards make me mad about this show! Just got to see sat's epi. Love your post even more after that!.
Well done please come with another of your lovely OS!👏
Edited by blue5sky - 11 years ago

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