Imlie Chat Club # 11, DT Reminder Note pg 55 - Page 104

Originally posted by: Deltablues

Not me confusing Saqib and Dalqueer for the nth time in my life. But I genuinely can't believe how lazy Bollywood has gotten with scripts. It's almost as if they think that they can throw in a bunch of buzzwords and it will sell. It's pathetic that it's true.

Lol. Bollywood has. Especially in direction. I couldn't believe they could ruin 83 out of all stories. That's a story made for success. They even did this with Gold - although I would say the second half was directed better than the first.

Originally posted by: _AmyChoco_

In Chak De, if I am not mistaken, barring a couple, most did play professional hockey. Even the foreigners.That itself lends to the authenticity. Not sure if that's the case in 83. Also, SRK was in the stands. Whereas in 83, the "hero" is on the field..Unfortunately, the film was named 83..and not Kapil Dev. The over the top focus on just Ranveer could have been avoided.Directing a biopic on team vs a single person is different cuz the attention ought to be distributed. As you said, emphasis was on the theatrics..not on the script.

You're right! In fact in one of his interviews SRK said one of the reasons why he accepted the role was because he played the sport himself in college and was aware of how it was. And many of the actors were hockey players - Sagarika was national level! And yeah, the film was about the team - not just one man. I felt something was off in the trailer because in a picture it looked like it was taken out of 83, but the trailer gave no gravity nor depth to its characters - they looked puppets at best. And it's disappointing because several actors (including Ranveer) are one of the finest.

Originally posted by: ramusk

Just a quick question...what is gaslighting which ppl in this forum have been using

Hello! Mangofalooda already told you what it is :) But I thought of adding this little Infograph to the conversation as well.A show that is literally based on gaslighting is called Mose Chhal Kiye Jaaye on Sony TV

Why does imlie is taking so much time to move on she is one step forward and 10 steps back... where anupama has moved on in say 6 months or less pls correct me...

I know both are different shows

The one reason I do not like the Aryan character being put into this story - this is him to T. It is morally reprehensible to put the Imlie character through this yet again. Putting Mehendi on her hands while she is asleep is a violation of the person and very serious. Those of us with the serial at the beginning will remember Imlie's reaction when she got Mehendi on her hands accidentally, she was frantic to get it off. How much worse is this?

There was a 17th c ( I think) play/poem called The Rape of the Lock, (from rapere to steal) by Alexander Pope. Although it was a satire, in it a man who cut off a lock of a girl's hair without her permission led to a feud between two families as it caused dishonour. So how much worse is this - claiming ownership of Imlie by decorating her hands without permission? It is cruel and tasteless.

I don't understand why criticising a character is a crime in this forum, as it is important to note character flaws in any discussion of a drama, and this is certainly a very bad flaw indeed.

Originally posted by: IPodcastKKND

You're right! In fact in one of his interviews SRK said one of the reasons why he accepted the role was because he played the sport himself in college and was aware of how it was. And many of the actors were hockey players - Sagarika was national level! And yeah, the film was about the team - not just one man. I felt something was off in the trailer because in a picture it looked like it was taken out of 83, but the trailer gave no gravity nor depth to its characters - they looked puppets at best. And it's disappointing because several actors (including Ranveer) are one of the finest.

The narrative style (& direction) guides the viewers to focus on key elements. I don't know why I am bringing this up, cuz I know you disliked Lagaan 😆 but if you remember the crucial match at the end, Aamir's character was on the grounds till the very end. It was known to us that he is the hero and would end up "saving". But all other team members came in and they lend their flavor to that whole sequence. The narrative flow wasn't jarring (as per my recollection 😆) When you show a team, it isn't necessary that all share the same spotlight..like in Chak De. It is realistic. But then when the balance is skewed in "teamwork" , the film loses its steam. Not sure if this is an apt comparison. But do you remember Mangal Mission starring Akshay, Vidya Balan, Sonakshi? Even with these stars, I just could not sit thru the whole movie. Cuz it wasn't about team work there..heavy focus on Akshay's character & dialogues. Team ko team ki Tarah dikhavo..not as mere props.

Originally posted by: ramusk

Why does imlie is taking so much time to move on she is one step forward and 10 steps back... where anupama has moved on in say 6 months or less pls correct me...

I know both are different shows

Because Imlie is a 19 years old teenager who has gone through a traumatic marriage and has barely any strong social circle who supports her for who she is. Only Sundar is her best friend who loves her and supports her regardless. The Tripathis had their vested interests.

On the other hand Anupama is a 49 years old woman who has seen and experienced life and is better equipped to handle trauma. Mind you, when she was first exposed to her husband's affair - it took her an infinitely long time to step out of that house. And Anupama has an extremely strong social circle who loves her and supports her for who she is - her father in law, her younger son, her daughter in law, her mother, her brother, her best friend and so on. Also Anuj was an acquaintance from college and he has been nothing except a gentleman. He never took decisions on Anupama's behalf. So much so when her mother in law insulted him and asked him to marry Anupama so the two's relationship wouldn't be questioned by the society - he refused to marry her. He only wanted a relationship with her when she was equally invested in it as well.

We can also say that since Aryan is young compared to the mature Anuj, he's making his own mistakes and creating situations that makes it difficult for Imlie to move on because the only people being nice to her are her in laws who are intricately tied to Aditya. It is going to be extremely difficult to move on when moving on is happening with a violation of her trust and faith in it. Tough to move on in those circumstances, eh?

Originally posted by: _AmyChoco_

The narrative style (& direction) guides the viewers to focus on key elements. I don't know why I am bringing this up, cuz I know you disliked Lagaan 😆 but if you remember the crucial match at the end, Aamir's character was on the grounds till the very end. It was known to us that he is the hero and would end up "saving". But all other team members came in and they lend their flavor to that whole sequence. The narrative flow wasn't jarring (as per my recollection 😆) When you show a team, it isn't necessary that all share the same spotlight..like in Chak De. It is realistic. But then when the balance is skewed in "teamwork" , the film loses its steam. Not sure if this is an apt comparison. But do you remember Mangal Mission starring Akshay, Vidya Balan, Sonakshi? Even with these stars, I just could not sit thru the whole movie. Cuz it wasn't about team work there..heavy focus on Akshay's character & dialogues. Team ko team ki Tarah dikhavo..not as mere props.

Lol no I did like Lagaan! But it was overrated. And as you accurately pointed out, the match in Lagaan truly paid off because all the side characters became so important to the storyline. Bhuvan was the hero, but the story wouldn't be what it was without the team - so it was a great watch!

Ah yes I remember Mission Mangal and it did feel off balance despite a stellar starcast. I don't think Bollywood does ensemble cast movies well to be honest. A few were good - I'll mention the traditional Hum Saath Saath Hai only because it manages to get everyone invested in all of the character's plots and love lives (something that even TV can't manage) and then of course films like Chak De. Chak De was a stellar example of how one character was the protagonist, but how they beautifully fleshed out all the side characters just enough for it to create a rich experience. Something 83 completely lacked.

Otherwise we have a LIST of bad ensemble cast movies. Lol seriously which ensemble cast movie stands out well? Ok there's Dil Dhadakne Do, K3G, Yuva, Omkara on the top of my head. Yeah...

Originally posted by: Gwiwer

The one reason I do not like the Aryan character being put into this story - this is him to T. It is morally reprehensible to put the Imlie character through this yet again. Putting Mehendi on her hands while she is asleep is a violation of the person and very serious. Those of us with the serial at the beginning will remember Imlie's reaction when she got Mehendi on her hands accidentally, she was frantic to get it off. How much worse is this?

There was a 17th c ( I think) play/poem called The Rape of the Lock, (from rapere to steal) by Alexander Pope. Although it was a satire, in it a man who cut off a lock of a girl's hair without her permission led to a feud between two families as it caused dishonour. So how much worse is this - claiming ownership of Imlie by decorating her hands without permission? It is cruel and tasteless.

I don't understand why criticising a character is a crime in this forum, as it is important to note character flaws in any discussion of a drama, and this is certainly a very bad flaw indeed.

Hey! Thanks for tagging. You know I love flawed characters. I don't have an issue with him making mistakes. Just... they shouldn't white wash his character. All of this is being labeled as altruism and him knowing better than Imlie on what's write for her.

And Aryan absolutely maybe right! But taking away her agency to put her in a survival mode and not expecting a traumatic response to it is like... I think the show would do far better to show what he's doing - but not justify it.

The lack of consent can never be justified. Even if the intentions are the most noble in the world. So I think it's not Aryan that's bothering me - because mistakes define a character - it's that the show is making it look like Imlie is dumb for not understanding his "noble intentions" and Aryan is a great sacrificial hero.

No, keep them real. Let Aryan's actions call out his lack of foresight. Let Imlie's loyalty to Tripathis waver. Don't try to whitewash any character. Keep them real, let them make mistakes and point it out as mistakes.

Originally posted by: IPodcastKKND

Hey! Thanks for tagging. You know I love flawed characters. I don't have an issue with him making mistakes. Just... they shouldn't white wash his character. All of this is being labeled as altruism and him knowing better than Imlie on what's write for her.

And Aryan absolutely maybe right! But taking away her agency to put her in a survival mode and not expecting a traumatic response to it is like... I think the show would do far better to show what he's doing - but not justify it.

The lack of consent can never be justified. Even if the intentions are the most noble in the world. So I think it's not Aryan that's bothering me - because mistakes define a character - it's that the show is making it look like Imlie is dumb for not understanding his "noble intentions" and Aryan is a great sacrificial hero.

No, keep them real. Let Aryan's actions call out his lack of foresight. Let Imlie's loyalty to Tripathis waver. Don't try to whitewash any character. Keep them real, let them make mistakes and point it out as mistakes.

Lol, what is that when we have either crucified or valorised a character a priori and ad hominen?

I would need to have something else than irrational, a priori hatred for a character to analyse its flaws.