Kareena Kapoor overrated: not more than 13 hits in 20 year career? - Page 5

Well obviously I mentioned Rani and Karishma took risks and showed more versatility..these two didn't come out of comfort zone to show their ability..so we don't know..

As actors..everyone has their own choice..

To be frank it was not Kareena and Kajol going by their heart but knowing their limitations. They knew they could never pull off a Black or Zubeida, Fiza or Mardaani. 

Yes everyone has their own choices but these two ladies are no way more talented than their sisters Rani and Karishma. Karishma specifically is superior to Kareena and has worked harder, had it way harder than Kareena and totally earned her stardom without relying on PR or real life controversies or leaked MMS with her BFs. 

Originally posted by: atominis

To be frank it was not Kareena and Kajol going by their heart but knowing their limitations. They knew they could never pull off a Black or Zubeida, Fiza or Mardaani. 

Yes everyone has their own choices but these two ladies are no way more talented than their sisters Rani and Karishma. Karishma specifically is superior to Kareena and has worked harder, had it way harder than Kareena and totally earned her stardom without relying on PR or real life controversies or leaked MMS with her BFs. 

kareena did Dev, Asoka, Chameli, Yuva, way earlier on in her career. She also did Omkara and Udta Punjab later on. 

@Atominis: What risk did Karishma take before Fiza? All her 90s movies are all about those WTF Govinda roles. Raja Hindustani was considered regressive even back in the day. DTPH was the typical YRF/KJo stuff with people dancing with heart-shaped balloons.

She started doing off-beat films because by 2000, the new brigade (Rani, PZ, Ash, even Kareen,a Bipasha, Amisha) had come and most filmmakers/audiences were interested in them than 90s stars. By 2002 her popularity had just faded and she fizzled out. I can think of only 3 challenging roles in Karishma's career: Fiza, Zubeida, Shakti, all of which she did at the end of her career.

Kareena did Chameli, Dev, Omkara in the first 5-6 years of her career. Recently she has done Talaash, Heroin, Udta Punjab, etc.

Karishma was a huge star in the late 90s. But her popularity faded by early 2000s and her legacy is pretty laughable compared to that of Sridevi, Madhuri, Kajol, Ash or even Rani. Kareena has been a consistent top 5 since her debut and still remains somewhere there even today.

Karishma at her peak was bigger than Kareena at her peak. But Karishma's peak was short-lived (96-2000), while Kareena remains a "hot property" of Bolly town even 20 years after her debut.

Originally posted by: Blood_Sacrifice

@Atominis: What risk did Karishma take before Fiza? All her 90s movies are all about those WTF Govinda roles. Raja Hindustani was considered regressive even back in the day. DTPH was the typical YRF/KJo stuff with people dancing with heart-shaped balloons.

She started doing off-beat films because by 2000, the new brigade (Rani, PZ, Ash, even Kareen,a Bipasha, Amisha) had come and most filmmakers/audiences were interested in them than 90s stars. By 2002 her popularity had just faded and she fizzled out. I can think of only 3 challenging roles in Karishma's career: Fiza, Zubeida, Shakti, all of which she did at the end of her career.

Kareena did Chameli, Dev, Omkara in the first 5-6 years of her career. Recently she has done Talaash, Heroin, Udta Punjab, etc.

Karishma was a huge star in the late 90s. But her popularity faded by early 2000s and her legacy is pretty laughable compared to that of Sridevi, Madhuri, Kajol, Ash or even Rani. Kareena has been a consistent top 5 since her debut and still remains somewhere there even today.

Karishma at her peak was bigger than Kareena at her peak. But Karishma's peak was short-lived (96-2000), while Kareena remains a "hot property" of Bolly town even 20 years after her debut.

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Originally posted by: atominis

To be frank it was not Kareena and Kajol going by their heart but knowing their limitations. They knew they could never pull off a Black or Zubeida, Fiza or Mardaani. 

Yes everyone has their own choices but these two ladies are no way more talented than their sisters Rani and Karishma. Karishma specifically is superior to Kareena and has worked harder, had it way harder than Kareena and totally earned her stardom without relying on PR or real life controversies or leaked MMS with her BFs. 

I do like the fact that you got a vast level of knowledge about Bollywood and its history (even very early Bollywood eras), but what I don't like is you posting your opinion as though they are facts. Like ... acting is subjective. It's not something you can objectively measure and weigh and then say actor X is better than actor Y. The fact that you don't think Kajol or Kareena are more talented than their sisters is your view. Please don't make it look like it's a fact. (I personally agree than Rani is better than Kajol, but it's my view and I will not post it like it's something of a fact).

What is not subjective, however, is star power or 'legacy' which can actually be measured. Going by remuneration, longevity, number of hits, PR, popularity polls, Kareena has had a more successful career than Karishma and even Rani (and I am a Rani fan trust me). Kareena was the second highest paid actress all throughout the 2000s after Ash (funny how Rani Preity, despite being the top actresses, couldn't reach their level). Kareena is one of the only actress whose name still comes up in Ormax and other popularity polls even 20 years after her debut (Priyanka is there too, but all her contemporaries like Rani, Preity, Vidya, Sonam etc had all faded). Karishma became an A-lister with AA/ Raja Hindustani (95-96) and fizzled out by 2000 (Fiza / HSSH  -- Zubeida Shakti etc were critically acclaimed, but commercially they were flops). Kareena had always cracked it in the top 5 almost consistently for the last 20 years.

You don't need to like Kareena to give credit where it is due. I don't like Katrina, but can admit she's a huge superstar who could carry a film on her shoulder. I don't like Salman but he's one of the biggest superstars ever.

I only responded to someone else who claimed Kareena and Kajol are more talented than their sisters. Otherwise I have no intention to compare their talents.

Karishma had zero support from Kapoors when she started acting as Kapoors do not permit women from their families to act in films. She battled lot of resistance from family to become first Kapoor girl to act in films. There was no training, grooming or hype or media support for her. This is why she was awkward looking for years before she learnt basics of make up, style or acting by mid 90s.

Unlike Kareena who was better groomed, had hype before debut being Karishma's sister and had learnt a lot seeing Lolo on sets. I am sure Kareena admits Lolo paved way for Kapoor girls to act in films. Kareena is in films because Karishma was.

And Karishma never had any PR or marketing skills. Nor her MMS with BF made headlines or her so called affairs. 

She made news solely on basis of her work. 

I maintain Kareena may be talented but it is hard to imagine her match steps with a dancer like Govinda at his peak. And it is not my opinion but there for anyone to see how Karishma dominated even heroes of calibre like Aamir, Salman, Sunny Deol in films like Jeet, HSSH, Raja Hindustani while Kareena has never overshadowed Khans in any film she did with them. Karishma overshadowed Tabu and Madhuri in Jeet, DTPH, Biwi no. 1. I have never seen Kareena overshadow other female superstars like this. Remind me of any film where she eclipsed a superstar like Karishma dominated Madhuri in DTPH?

I will be happy to see any example.

Kareena tops these polls because she has knack of remaining in news for her off screen life be it controversies, interviews or personal life. There was no internet or social media in 90s so polls do not serve as barometer of talent, stardom, box office pull.

Stats speak for itself how many hits Karishma has. And how many Kareena has. And anyone can see what role Karishma had in her ATBB with Aamir and what role Kareena had in her ATBB with same actor. Raja Hindustani is entirely dominated by Karishma, definitely lengthier role than Kareena had in 3 Idiots. 

I would love to know when did Kareena become second highest paid actress in 2000s? Second highest paid actress was Rani and first was Ash. Unless some different journal or report has come out from that era. 

As far as longevity is concerned, Babita made Karishma vacate the stage for Kareena and engaged her to Abhishek and later broke even that rishta and married her off to a creepy man like Sanjay Kapur who abused her, tried to auction her to his friends. Karishma has gone through lot of abuse in that marriage and lost whatever younger years she was left with. Perhaps if Karishma had not obeyed her mom blindly she would have been better in life and career. She had world at her feet after stupendous success in 1999 and acclaim, awards she got for Fiza. Kareena is luckier that she did not repeat mistakes of her sister or perhaps her mom Babita did not make same mistakes with younger daughter. This is why Kareena is still active in films after marriage and has a happy life unlike her sister. Kareena is fortunate to have married into a good family, that has class and also allows women to work after marriage. She did make good choices in personal life which have helped her stay happy and relevant. 

Karishma had disappeared after her marriage and kids. By the time she attempted comeback or ads it was too late. So comparisons or 20 years make no sense. Kareena never had family limitations that Karishma has had. 

As for Kajol and Rani, well I have never seen Kajol attempt heavy stuff like Black and Mardaani. She usually does light hearted films or family dramas, romances. She may do Mardaani but I doubt if she can do what Rani did in Black. That is opinion of many critics as well. Not my personal one alone. 

Rani overshadowed Kareena in Yuva as well BTW. She got all accolades for Yuva and her jodi with Abhishek was more appreciated. Udta Punjab which is being quoted for Kareena also had Alia overshadow Kareena - atleast I saw Alia getting all awards and accolades for it. 

Kareena is a huge media made star. At box office...numbers speak for themselves. And so do National awards. 

Stardom is not about staying in news over your personal life or names of kids or post pregnancy weight loss. 

If that was the case then Shilpa Shetty would be biggest star of 90s given how she markets her personal life all day and now has her YouTube channel as well. 

Comparisons with Katrina make no sense either because she has the number of hits and numbers speak for themselves at BO. She is not a media made star or all PR. Her talent as an actor is debatable but her star power at NO is never debatable. Unlike...

Fair enough. 

Dev was indeed a risky film given its sensitive topic based on communal violence. 

Omkara, Yuva, Chameli were good choices. But Rani took all accolades for Yuva and Alia for Udta Punjab - atleast awards and reviews say so. Kareena was good in Dev, Omkara, Chameli for sure. 

I will not compare on films done after marriage because Karishma barely did any films after marriage. Kareena has worked after marriage and had the freedom from her family to do so. Unlike Karishma who was trapped in an abusive marriage with Sanjay Kapur and had a bitter divorce later. 

There was more different kind of cinema being made in 2000s and audience was more accepting due to rise of multiplexes. Unlike 90s where different types of films were still rare and audience was less receptive and even Tabu had to do crap flower pot roles like Vijaypath along with gems like Maachis. Films like Omkara, Udta Punjab were not even attempted in 90s. 

I did not argue quality of films. Karishma had no support from family or industry and media when she started out because Kapoor girls were not allowed to act in films. She did whatever was offered to her. I know she has done crap films like Jigar (which is a hit BTW) but she did have more hits. Raja Hindustani is garbage IMO but it is an ATBB and a film in which she dominated the screen and overshadowed the hero.

She overshadowed Tabu in Saajan Chale Sasural, Jeet, HSSH, Biwi no. 1, Madhuri in DTPH, Sunny and Salman in Jeet, Rekha and Manoj in Zubeida, Salman, Sushmita, Tabu, Anil in Biwi no.1. 

Govinda films are fluff but it is not easy to do comedy or match dance steps with Govinda. Karishma managed to match Govinda in dance and had good comic timing, for which she deserves credit. 

Karishma had no grooming, make up or style sense or PR or media savvy skills. She learnt it from a scratch and is still not good at handling media. For her sheer hard work, improvement and managing to give hits in various genres, eclipsing top stars in films I mentioned, winning National award, paving way for Kapoor girls to act in films, she does deserve credit. 

She is a trailblazer. Kareena is because Karishma was and they defied Kapoor khandaan diktat barring girls from doing films. Kareena accompanied Karishma to sets of her films and I am sure she learnt a lot observing Karishma from childhood on the sets.

Karishma was just 16 when she debuted without any family support or grooming, training. Her bad choices in films earlier are understandable. 

She had zero support or counsel from her family. 

Different subjects were barely made in 90s. This is why she has Zubeida and Fiza only. 

But it cannot be taken away from her that she does have more hits, National award, and overshadowed co stars in many films like Jeet, Biwi no1, Raja Hindustani, Fiza, Zubeida, Saajan Chale Sasural, HSSH, DTPH, getting more attention, reviews and awards than co stars.

She struggled more being a first generation female actor from Kapoor family. 

It is not her fault if range of films like 2000s, 2010s were not made in 90s. 90s was limited scope and even Tabu had to do crap like Vijaypath, Haqeeqat etc to keep afloat..

Rani and Preity also worked with Govinda BTW but never matched comic timing or dance steps and those films failed. Nor do I recall Preity overshadowing Madhuri in Yeh Raaste hain Pyar ke the way Karishma did to MD in DTPH and won a National award for it. 

Anyway films like Black, Chameli, Dev, Omkara were not made in 90s at all so actors had less choices. Multiplexes made these films viable in 2000s. In 90s any serious film was called an art film and seen as potential flop or commercial risk. 

This is why Aamir has only Earth and Sarfarosh as more serious and risky subjects in 90s while rest of his films were commercial capers and he did more diverse work in 2000s from Lagaan onwards. 

Karishma began leaving work when she was about to get married and hardly worked after marriage. Unlike Kareena who never stopped working. So comparing later era filmography is pointless. 

Good lord, I do not have the time nor the patience nor your level of Bollywood knowledge to reply to each point of your posts. I will just make a few quick points where I disagree.

Yes Karishma had to go through more struggles while Kareena was granted everything in a silver platter in the first few years. However, this is irrelevant in judging their star power or legacy. I will judge them based on what they have given onscreen. What they did offscreen, or what they had to go through offscreen, isn't and shouldn't be a defining criteria.

Kajol is Karishma's contemporary, and she continues to remain a popular figure even today. Unlike Karishma who is not really getting half the offers that Kajol is. So the fact that Karishma isn't getting offers today because she is from the 90s doesn't make sense to me.

Yes time makes a huge difference. Kareena is luckier to work today in one of the finest era of Bollyood (in terms of quality films). However, whateer the reason maybe, Kareena's career is in a better position today than Kareena's. I mean, you could say the same for any pre-2000s actress, i.e. if they debuted today, they could have a much better career with better films. Sridevi worked in one of the worst decades of Bollywood, maybe she'd have a better filmography if she worked today? Manisha Koirala too was supremely talented but worked in 90s when these artsy movies didn't work. Maybe she'd have a better career today? Divya Bharti could have become even bigger than Karishma and Kareena had she not died ... see how silly it looks? That Karishma could have had a career like Kareena if she debuted later, or if she didn't have the same problems as Kareena etc doesn't work as an argument. Let's keep hypothetical issues aside. Based on their respective careers, Kareena has almost 3 times longer career than her.

"Kareena is a huge media made star. At box office...numbers speak for themselves. And so do National awards. 

Stardom is not about staying in news over your personal life or names of kids or post pregnancy weight loss. 

If that was the case then Shilpa Shetty would be biggest star of 90s given how she markets her personal life all day and now has her YouTube channel as well."

"Media made star"?  LOL, all stars are media made. And s star is a star. This is where I disagree with you. Stardom IS about being in the news - whatever the news maybe. We are not discussing acting talent here only, nor box office results alone. We are discussing the impact you have on the audience and how much they remember you, which is directly proportional to how much in the media you can be in. Things like having an active PR, active social media accounts to communicate with fans, giving interviews, being eloquent in speech, having endorsements, being in hit songs, being fashion icon, etc etc can all contribute to your stardom. Sonam is a star for her WTF statements and fashion sense (aside from nepotism). Kareena is a star for her hyperactive PR and the ability to remain in news. Ash is a star for her legendary beauty and brand value and endorsements. Basically anything that helps you remain relevant and in audience's minds.

FYI Shilpa Shetty is a huge star TODAY. No she wasn't one in the 90s, but she wasn't that overexposed back in the day. Today, she is everywhere in the news due to her fitness/yoga videos and PR exercise, and trust me, modern audience would recognize her before they recognize any other star. I've very young cousins who know Shilpa Shetty, but can't recognize Karishma or even Sridevi as they (my cousins) were not there in the 90s, and never watched any of Karishma or SD's films. But Shilpa being everywhere makes her more recognizable to modern audience, and that does make her a huge star (despite lacking any serious career).