Dharma Kshetra on Epic Channel Thread 2/ DT Nt pg 71/Imp Nt Pg 89/117 - Page 118

Posted: 9 years ago
hmm, let's see about that, anyway, can anyone predict what the charges would be?
Posted: 9 years ago
Anu di, I agree with you that true pity makes a man servant of humanity. Let me tell you that Yudhi knew this, and he served his prajas as a King. Please read Sanjay Yan parvadhyaya to know how concerned he was even for orphans and beggars. I always believe that he and Panchai were ideal emperor and empress who cared their prajas as children. Otherwise why would the people cry and want to follow their King even in exile? They were not the fools I think. Also his prayer to Sun God for feeding people shows his kind heart.
I agree with you that staking citizens was a grave sin. But that was only one day's sin. The king who always loved & served his prajas slipped from his sense only for few minutes (here I'm assuming the general convention that he was a gambler & lost his sense out of addiction, because it's the current topic of my research & I don't want to reveal now whatever new I have discovered). Please think, how much blame does he deserve for it? Can that one activity remove all good activities from his life?
Suppose a person loved you & helped you earlier. Someday the same person insulted you. Will you not forgive him, remembering his previous help? It's not my logic, our Panchali told Yudhi that a person who helped you before deserves forgiveness at his first crime. So Yudhi also deserves forgiveness from his prajas. Even prajas understood it & forgave their king, but unfortunately Kaliyugi people cannot.
Please don't make that fatal day the only measuring tool of his character. That day he was brutally cheated, not only by Shakuni but also by his ill fate! On that day he was worst king, worst brother, worst husband & worst human being. But it does not make his overall character worst. His basic nature was not such unkind. And his brothers knew that their eldest was not a beast. Panchali knew that her husband was not such beast. You know that Panchali was trying to defend Yudhi even in that condition.
Whatever he did, he had no intention to harm anybody, not even his enemies. He could not think that his wife would be dragged to the open court. You believe in it or not, but he loved Panchali. His love was silent so it's hard to establish. Feeling from heart is needed to understand his silent love.
Ownership comes from love and expectations, I agree again. But can you prove that he did not love his brothers and wife? His brothers were not such idiots to put him at father's position if he did not deserve that place. Similar case for Panchali too.
One more thing makes me sad. Most of Kaliyugi readers cannot understand Spiritual lessons of MB, like Nahusha Samvada, Yaksha prashna etc. Those lessons show Yudhi's own take on Scriptures. If he only had theoretical knowledge, he could not give such unique answers to the Yaksha. Those answers were not copy-pasted from any book, they came from his own real life experiences. How can one know a specialist knowing nothing about his field of specialization?
As for Mahaprashthanik Parva comment, I know that Bheem asked about her sin & Yudhi replied. But I want to say that he was not blaming her for that. If he stated the fact without Bheem's question, then I could say that he was blaming her. Also please remember that he never uttered this fact in entire life. If he really had any intention to blame her, then he had plenty of options to do so in lifetime, no? I think he would not have uttered this even after her death if Bheem did not ask him.
Last but not the least, thank you for giving me the Yudhishthir title 😊 I'm feeling so honoured! Sorry for this long post 😳

Posted: 9 years ago
was that comment a true fact? even so, it did contain a hint of jellousy.
Posted: 9 years ago
With Yudisthir's episode coming up, I guess this debate will go on...
I personally am not a fan of Yudisthir...
I hate his staking of Draupadi...I dont like how he took the sharing decision( and I dont buy Draupadi smiling theory)...
I dont like how he manipulates Shalya to demean Karna...dont really expect that from someone like Yudisthir...
And since I am more inclined to CE, according to that, Yudisthir n the other Ps got the Nishada woman killed on purpose...And I totally hate how he asked Draupadi to bear everything during Keechak Vadh...

For all these reasons I agree with Anu n most other people here...I dont see Yudisthir as a storehouse of greatness...For that matter, I dont see Draupadi as a storehouse of greatness either...Yudisthir was a brilliant stategist n certainly the most intelligent of the Ps...Often his 'dharmic' image overshadows his brillance as a strategist...
And I dont think there is anything wrong in being one...

But then again, there are few occasions for which I agree with Urmila...
Yudisthir may have made a lot of mistakes, but there are few places, where I do see Yudisthir's goodness...
For example, if I am not wrong, Yudisthir was the one who did not laugh or insult Karna at Rangbhoomi...or at Duryodhan when he fell down...I will have to check again but I think that's how it went...
At an age when verbal insult could wreak so much havoc, I believe these insignificant moments of goodness by Kaliyugi standards meant a lot during Dwapar Yug...
As for Draupadi's Vastraharan, wat Yudisthir was HORRIBLE...but I blame DDSK more than him...
Yudisthir had never imagined in his wildest dreams that his cousins would do something like THAT to his wife...
Nothing justifies his staking of Draupadi for sure but I disagree when I see some people pointing fingers at Y alone and overlooking DDSK...

Yudisthir was not exactly a white saint as he is believed to be...He was very much a strategist. Some of his actions dont speak of Dharma or greatness...but overall there was an underlying nobility in him...He was forgiving by nature and had immense sense of scriptures...His decisions during Lakshagriha n the war may have been unfair, but it needs to be pointed out that he never harmed his enemies of his own accord...He used his strategies for survival not for harming or hurting others...Even when he did want to win Hastinapur through dice game, he did not cheat in the game or insult the womenfolk of his cousins to achieve that...

So, when it comes to Yudisthir, I agree partially with both Anu n Urmila...though I am more inclined to the ideas of Anu, Radhika, n others... πŸ˜†Edited by amritat - 9 years ago
Posted: 9 years ago
Originally posted by Arijit007


hmm, let's see about that, anyway, can anyone predict what the charges would be?


Not doing protest against murder attempts
Sharing Draupadi due to so called 'lust'
Letting Krishna-Arjun perform khandav dahan
Letting Krishna, Bheem, Arjun kill Jarasandha due to so called 'greed' of becoming emperor
Letting Krishna kill Shishupal in his court
Accepting invitation of dice game
Continuing the game even after knowing that Shakuni cheated him
Staking Kingdom and citizens
Staking brothers (I hope they will not make 4 separate charges for 4 brothers) 
Staking Draupadi
Not responding to Draupadi's question
Not helping wife during VH
Accepting call for second dice game
Obeying the condition of exile and incognito without protest
Not listening to Bheem and Draupadi when they requested to break his truth
Not kneeling down at Draupadi's feet and cry like Bollywood heroes, "Priye mujhe maaf kar do!"
Ordering brothers to make kauravas free from gandharvas' hands
Sparing Jayadrath
'Lying' to King Viraat during incognito
Playing dice with King Viraat
Telling Draupadi to leave the court when Keechak kicked her (his coded message is not counted)
Being unwilling to start war
Sending Krishna as peace messenger
Requesting Krishna to find out a way other than war even at the last moment
Giving permission to start war despite of knowing that Aaryavarta will be flooded with blood (yes he will be blamed both for effort of stopping war and then finally waging war. It's a double-edged sword, he will bleed at both sides.)
Making Shalya a Pandava spy
'Acting' of respect in front of Kuru elders before starting the war
Asking Bhishma about the way of his death
Sending Abhimanyu inside chakravyuha
Performing Guru hatyaa by half lie
Telling Arjun to handover Gaandiv to anybody else
Being happy with Karna's death
Killing Shalya
Making Duryodhan excited to fight
Becoming soft to Duri, giving him weapons, chariots etc and allowing him to choose his desired opponent & weapon
Crying a river for his own 'sin'
Cursing women
Crying for Dhritarashtra when he wanted to retire for forest (how dare he show such kindness to enemy's father?)
Not crying for Krishna after He passed away
Stating the reasons of falls (5 times, so 5 different charges)
Not looking back to brothers and Draupadi when they fell (again, may be 5 different charges for 5 people)
Rejecting Heaven for a mere dog (oh how dare he show such pride to Indra Dev?)
Wishing to remain at hell for the sake of his brothers and wife (how dare he reject the reward Gods gave him)

Oh the list is so long 😲 will they take one month to complete all these? I will enjoy seeing Yudhi on the hot stand, the actor is handsome and performing very good 😳
Dear Yudhi haters, please feel free to extend this list if I have missed any 😊


Posted: 9 years ago
Originally posted by Urmila11




Not doing protest against murder attempts
Sharing Draupadi due to so called 'lust'
Letting Krishna-Arjun perform khandav dahan
Letting Krishna, Bheem, Arjun kill Jarasandha due to so called 'greed' of becoming emperor
Letting Krishna kill Shishupal in his court
Accepting invitation of dice game
Continuing the game even after knowing that Shakuni cheated him
Staking Kingdom and citizens
Staking brothers (I hope they will not make 4 separate charges for 4 brothers)
Staking Draupadi
Not responding to Draupadi's question
Not helping wife during VH
Accepting call for second dice game
Obeying the condition of exile and incognito without protest
Not listening to Bheem and Draupadi when they requested to break his truth
Not kneeling down at Draupadi's feet and cry like Bollywood heroes, "Priye mujhe maaf kar do!"
Ordering brothers to make kauravas free from gandharvas' hands
Sparing Jayadrath
'Lying' to King Viraat during incognito
Playing dice with King Viraat
Telling Draupadi to leave the court when Keechak kicked her (his coded message is not counted)
Being unwilling to start war
Sending Krishna as peace messenger
Requesting Krishna to find out a way other than war even at the last moment
Giving permission to start war despite of knowing that Aaryavarta will be flooded with blood (yes he will be blamed both for effort of stopping war and then finally waging war. It's a double-edged sword, he will bleed at both sides.)
Making Shalya a Pandava spy
'Acting' of respect in front of Kuru elders before starting the war
Asking Bhishma about the way of his death
Sending Abhimanyu inside chakravyuha
Performing Guru hatyaa by half lie
Telling Arjun to handover Gaandiv to anybody else
Being happy with Karna's death
Killing Shalya
Making Duryodhan excited to fight
Becoming soft to Duri, giving him weapons, chariots etc and allowing him to choose his desired opponent & weapon
Crying a river for his own 'sin'
Cursing women
Crying for Dhritarashtra when he wanted to retire for forest (how dare he show such kindness to enemy's father?)
Not crying for Krishna after He passed away
Stating the reasons of falls (5 times, so 5 different charges)
Not looking back to brothers and Draupadi when they fell (again, may be 5 different charges for 5 people)
Rejecting Heaven for a mere dog (oh how dare he show such pride to Indra Dev?)
Wishing to remain at hell for the sake of his brothers and wife (how dare he reject the reward Gods gave him)

Oh the list is so long 😲 will they take one month to complete all these? I will enjoy seeing Yudhi on the hot stand, the actor is handsome and performing very good 😳
Dear Yudhi haters, please feel free to extend this list if I have missed any 😊




Some of the charges are true...while some are too much... πŸ˜†
Dont worry dear...
The Kaliyugi chargesheet of his wife is even longer...with charges, which even Ved Vyas is not aware of... πŸ˜†
Posted: 9 years ago
Sema please Add these s well -
 
  • Chatting with Nahusha peacefully when Bhima was struggling in his coils (if he was a Kshatriya, he ought to have fought the snake, isn't it ?)
  • Sending his brothers to fetch water from the poisoned lake, rather than going himself first...that way he would have answered all the questions and none of the brothers would have "died". But obviously he had an ulterior motive, he wanted to spend some romantic time with Drau with his brothers away.
  • Eating before Draupadi during the vanavaas, how dare he...the male chauvinist p**
  • And Sema...how dare he leave Bhishma pitamaha alone on his bed of arrows after the rajya anushasana upadesha while he  made merry in his palace ?
 
Posted: 9 years ago
Varaali didi, I doubt how many know that he ate after EVERYBODY in exile, only before Panchali because akshaya patra would produce no food after she takes her meal.
And did he really spend romantic moments with Draupadi sending out his brothers to the lake? It was he who refused romantic gift golden lotus from her hands & rushed to the spot to see if Bheem was safe or not. Bheem's life was more precious for him than his wife's gift.
As for Nahusha, did Kaliyugi brains stop blaming him if he attacked his revered ancestor? I think no.
As for Pitamaha, how many have counted the tears he shed for Pitamaha?
Thanks for your additions πŸ˜†
Edited by Urmila11 - 9 years ago
Posted: 9 years ago
Amrita
Am a Panchali fan first and foremost and I will say this very clearly. In the whole epic if there is any one character (that includes Krishna) who did not pull any shenanigans for personal benefit it is only Panchali. She who forgave Jaydrath and was not trying vansh naash on Keechak when he attempted more than Dushy, was not out for personal revenge in KK war. If she is not the storehouse of greatness, there is no one else in the epic who is great.

Urmila / Varaali

We don't need to make a big list of trumped up charges

1) The Nishada woman and her sons
2) Division of Panchali. He argued for it. There is no question on that
3) Gambler's impulses are strong, so we don't need to keep beating him on the head for that. But I do blame him for not asking his brothers to react to the attempted disrobing. Dharma is worth NOTHING as it is written on the books. It is like a currency note. The only value that it has is based on what it can buy. Otherwise it is just paper. So, if his book dharma couldn't protect the helpless, then it was worth nothing. And he did it deliberately. But again I am willing to buy that it was ignorance and weakness.
4) I dont blame him for Jaydrath and am even willing to buy your theory of Keechak
5) And I don't know what Amrita means by blaming him for Shalya demoralizing Karna. I don't even blame him for Abhi. One of the duties as a ruler is that sometimes you have to send people to their deaths for the greater good (that does not include the Nishada family since that was for personal benefit) and as far as he knew Karna was one of his greatest enemies. I ADMIRE him for these two things. In fact, the only credit I would ever give Yudhi is that before and after the war he may have wailed and wept, but during the war, he kept his eyes on the goal.
6) You know what I blame him for? For NEVER EVER saying he is at fault. During that convo with Panchali and Bheem in Vana Parva, he says it is because of him, but he NEVER says I WAS WRONG to gamble, to not stop the assault etc etc. And to top it all, he insinuates that Panchali was talking like an atheist, which in those days carried the penalty of death, if I am not mistaken

So, if we are done being facetious, I would accuse him of 1, 2 and 6
Edited by AnuMP - 9 years ago
Posted: 9 years ago
OK guys. Lets move to the next thread
Also still looking for volunteers to moderate the thread😳


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