Posted: 18 years ago
India nd Pakistan are fighting since 1947 for Kashmir, they agreed upon some peace agreements together but pakistan still has hold on some areas of Kashmir. Kashmir is the northmost province in India and is called the most beautiful valley. All we have seen since 1947 is three wars and the big one was "kargil war". Is it really worth it?? death of thousands soldiers and waste of money on artillery......πŸ˜”. Muslims wanted a different country and they were given Pakistan but wat now.............. PLZ NOTE THAT I M JST TALKIN ABT THE PAKISTANI TERRORISTS WHO R INVADING KASHMIR NOT THE WHOLE COUNTRY OR ANY POLITICAL FIGURES.

i say kashmir was always indiaz part and invading it nd sayin that it is suppose to b therez doesnt make any sense. its like dictatorship 

wat say guyz???

* REMEMBER WE R JST DISCUSSING, IF PAKISTANIS SAY THAT KASHMIR IS THIERS THEN PLZ GIVE ME A PROOF. Kashmir was a independent country b4 it merged wid India; it was Kashmirz head who chose to merge wid india and demanded for special guidelines  for his country and today indian constitution still has a article listing all those guidelines and the agreement too. thx for cooperation😊

This happened before Pakistan was formed, so i think they cud have asked for kashmir area instead of punjab area during the formation.

As far as i noe Mohammad Ali Jinaah, the founder of Pakistan believed in peace within and without, in the principle of "live and let live". Actually, the Pakistan demand itself, as defined by him, was based on this principle: "let the two major nations, Hindus and Muslims, manage their affairs in their respective areas according to their own rights and traditions and… thus paving the way for two nations to live in peace and good neighbourliness with each other in the Subcontinent". "Pakistan presupposed freedom for the Subcontinent as a whole". (from- http://www.india-forums.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=160615&K W=happy)

So y r v hurting his thoughts. Was this really his dream??No it wasn't .πŸ˜”

Request to all Debators :Please discuss this topic with out tempers flaring and no body getting personal . Please DONOT make any India - Pakistan personal attacks or getting into putting one religon down over the other .If any member fails to follow this request , this topic will be  trashed and warning levels raised.
--------Request by Dev team ----------------------------------------------

 

Edited by Aparna_BD - 18 years ago
Posted: 18 years ago
hmm...difficult topic...since i'm pakistani i wouldnt wana get into a argument...but jus wana say we shudnt be discussin this cos politics r for the politians. i think every1 shud come together in peace and..i jus believe in live n let live. 😊

personally i think its gud that india and pak are now separate...cos muslims would loose their identity...n their wudnt b many muslims left in that region. religion is important in my opnion. 😊 but i think its gud that now pakistan and india are developin a friendship.
Posted: 18 years ago
sahz.. if politicians cud solve this then we wudnt have had any discusssion .its bn 58 years now since pakistan was formed but none of the countries has sat in peace. i don understand y r fighting?? we have got to cum up wid a solution. mayb our suggestions can prove meaningful for our countries. πŸ˜›
i don think muslims wud have lost identity if they wudnt have got Pakistan coz there were other muslim countries like afganistan, iran, iraq, uzbekistan too i think which still exist today and have maintained thier identity in this world..today the number of muslim population in india is more than in pakistan... i really don understand if jinaah took the rite step or not??
the seeds grown by britishers have grown into a tree today and we have got to settle it somehow.. The policy of divide and rule has ruined our lives as ppl in those areas suffer from frequent terrorist attacks. jst think abt the horror they suffer from, will u be able to sleep at night if don feel secure in your own house,in your own country???? Those victims r part of our country, sumtimes we cant leave evrything to politicians u noeπŸ˜”
Posted: 18 years ago

*First of all, let me correct some of your facts. The area of Kashmir which is in Pakistan is not kept but 'conquered' in 1965.


*Kargil war was not the biggest war; war in 1971 was the biggest one, when East Pakistan was separated from the West Pakistan. Pakistan had to face a big defeat because of all the politics happening in East Pakistan, which is now Bangladesh.

 

 

Kargil's war was the biggest political drama.  I won't go in detail of this drama, coz many of you don't want to hear it.

 

*As for the wars, it is a political drama. It is emotional blackmailing. Weather it is between Pakistan-India or any other country. There is always a third party which is forcing them, not to be one. In this case it is Great USA which has kept week points of both the countries and is blackmailing them. And our great political leaders are not that brave enough that they can fight back.

As for the Muslims getting a separate nation; before 1930 the fight was for freedom for the Indians, which included Muslims, Hindus and many other minorities. But looking at the situation at that time, Muslims had to ask for a separate country. As for Kashmir, I am not to sure about it. But I do know that it was part of India, BUT in that area the majority was of Muslims. So they wanted to be part of Pakistan, which was made for the Muslim majority.

 

 

Nepal, Bhutan, Bangladesh, Maldives, Andaman, Sri Lanka and a few other islands were all part of the "Indian - Sub-continent" that does not mean that in present also they should all be part of India. When they got their freedom, let them live.


Kashmir was of a Prince and he sold the area to Indian Raja of that time, but it was way before the fight for freedom started. The Prince didn't merge in the India after 1947 but in the India before 1947. And there is a huge difference between these two India.

 

 

In 1947, when the partition happened, Kashmir was part of India, if people at that time wanted to be part of Pakistan, then it should be part of Pakistan. They were two main purpose of the separation one freedom from the British rule, and secondly Freedom of religion. Both Muslims and Hindus were having problems with each other. Thanks to the British rule. It broke the bond of 800 years in 200 years.

 

As for the "Pakistani Terrorists" they are not terrorists. They are people jin per zulm howa hai, which you and me can't even imagine. They are neither Pakistani nor Indians, they are those unfortunates who have only seen fighting and terror around them from the day they were born.

 

 

You know which people commit suicide bombing? They are people who have lost everything, their families, their homes, their childhood, their "life", they are the ones who have lost everything, even the fear of death. They know keh un who bhi kisi din issi hi kisi goli saye life khatam ho jaye gi. Marna tu hai hi, kuch kar keh mara jaye. So they go and commit suicide with a bomb around themselves.

 

[quote=heart girl]Muslims wanted a different country and they were given Pakistan but wat now .............. [/quote]

 

Thank you so much for this kindness, boht meharbani aap ki.


India has a huge piece of land, where there is still so much poverty, why doesn't the government take care of them first, why are they wasting money on the piece of land. They want money out of that land. It is a tourist's heaven. But all these wars are making it a country of graves.

 

Tell me something, if Kashimir is part of India, then why is there 8000 + army in Kashmir? Kya Delhi, Bombay or Calcutta ki roads per bhi isshi tarha army hoti hai? If India says keh woh un ka hisa hai, then why don't they treat like it? Dar kis baat ka hai??

[quote=heart girl]As far as i noe Mohammad Ali Jinaah, the founder of Pakistan believed in peace within and without, in the principle of "live and let live". Actually, the Pakistan demand itself, as defined by him, was based on this principle: "let the two major nations, Hindus and Muslims, manage their affairs in their respective areas according to their own rights and traditions and… thus paving the way for two nations to live in peace and good neighbourliness with each other in the Subcontinent". "Pakistan presupposed freedom for the Subcontinent as a whole". (from- http://www.india-forums.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=160615&K W=happy)

So y r v hurting his thoughts. Was this really his dream??No it wasn't .[/quote]


Mahatma Gandi also said the similar thing, then why isn't India stepping back. Pakistan nahian maan raha tu aap maan jao.

Since 1947 both India and Pakistan are fighting for a piece of land. This issue has been talked so much that it has now lost the real meaning. Losing or gaining that piece has become an ego problem for both. This ego kills everyday a son, a brother, or a father. This ego problem has totally ignored what the people of that land (Kashmir) want. Today they want a separate country for themselves. They don't want to be part of Pakistan or India. Why would they be?? What have they gained so far? Why can't India and Pakistan leave them alone. Kaab taak laroo gaye uss jaga keh liye jidhar ki mitti bhi tumhara saath nahian dehti. Iss saye pehlye ko who mitti nafrat karnye lagye, uss ko chor doh. Kyun keh iss larai saye kisi ko kuch nahian milnye wala. Sirf eik insaan ki baat maanye keh liye, 1000s logoon ko kyun maar rahye ho? Woh tu pidha hi duniya ko bardad karnye keh liye howa hai. ( I am talking about Bush)

 

Yeh War aab Kashmir keh liye nahian hai. Yeh War aab power keh liye hai, naam keh liye hai. Yeh War aab donno countries keh liye izzat ka sawal hai. Aur baas kuch aur nahain.

I am sorry, I started writing aur main likhti chali gai. Sorry lamba hogiya. But I don't know what to edit out. So I am posting everything.

I have nothing aginist India or Indians. but as a very neutral person I have many shikyats from both the governoments.

Edited by Ms. Bholi Bhali - 18 years ago
Posted: 18 years ago
Originally posted by Ms. Bholi Bhali






*As for the wars, it is a political drama. It is emotional blackmailing. Weather it is between Pakistan-India or any other country. There is always a third party which is forcing them, not to be one.
Excellent point . I absolutely agree πŸ˜›



In 1947, when the partition happened, Kashmir was part of India, if people at that time wanted to be part of Pakistan, then it should be part of Pakistan. They were two main purpose of the separation one freedom from the British rule, and secondly Freedom of religion. Both Muslims and Hindus were having problems with each other. Thanks to the British rule. It broke the bond of 800 years in 200 years.Sad but true that bond of friendship between the two religons became so strained due to the British divide and rule policy that i am not sure what else could have happened.


You know which people commit suicide bombing? They are people who have lost everything, their families, their homes, their childhood, their "life", they are the ones who have lost everything, even the fear of death. They know keh un who bhi kisi din issi hi kisi goli saye life khatam ho jaye gi. Marna tu hai hi, kuch kar keh mara jaye. So they go and commit suicide with a bomb around themselves.Here's where i dissgree . Most suicide bombers are youth that are mislead . While my husband lived in Birmingham , England as a student - he often walked home from college past an area , where you had bunch of young guys standing with a board that read "hiring jihadi's for the Kashmir cause " And the sort of kids who joined them were all from well to do families that had good home life . They had neither lived in Pakistan nor had they probably visited it . It was the propoganda that was being spread by those recruiters that gave their own version and wanted these young boys , happy boys to quit every thing and join their cause . I wonder if any one saw this lovely Movie recently released "Syriana " . The young boy who was contacted and lured into being a suicide bomber is a reality . If we read the background of many terrorist that attacked U.S recently . They had a good family background . How about Osama - he's from a wealthy family . Why did he join and start a movement that only talks about destruction .
My point is that i have no sympathy for suicide bombers and disagree that they have lost everything and so have no will to live and therefore they join such causes . They have more reasons to live - family , their country , their country men and no reason but have been influenced by propoganda !!


Tell me something, if Kashimir is part of India, then why is there 8000 + army in Kashmir? Kya Delhi, Bombay or Calcutta ki roads per bhi isshi tarha army hoti hai? If India says keh woh un ka hisa hai, then why don't they treat like it? Dar kis baat ka hai??The reason their is no army taking over Delhi , Bombay etc is that its not a troubled area . When ever their is a emergency situation , it is handled accordingly.


Since 1947 both India and Pakistan are fighting for a piece of land. This issue has been talked so much that it has now lost the real meaning. Losing or gaining that piece has become an ego problem for both. This ego kills everyday a son, a brother, or a father. This ego problem has totally ignored what the people of that land want.


I have nothing aginist India or Indians. but as a very neutral person I have many shikyats from both the governoments.I think every common man has!!😊😊


The discussion is going very well my friends . Lets keep it going peacefully . And don't forget we have friends on this wonderfull site from both countries and this issue is not worth it for us to ruin our friendship !!Edited by Aparna_BD - 18 years ago
Posted: 18 years ago
Originally posted by Ms. Bholi Bhali


*First of all, let me correct some of your facts. The area of Kashmir which is in Pakistan is not kept but 'conquered' in 1965. [/quote] i noe its conquered. y did tey conquer it?? If kashmir ppl wanted to migrate to they cud as punjabis living in pakistan did but all did not chose too and they r still in india.it was 20th century not alexander period that we ll attach the country and get the land. Bangladesh was called "east pakistan" so y did they seperated itself from Pakistan ?? why?? they were also muslims .  now its a independent country and india is not trying to overtake it.

Posted: 18 years ago

Originally posted by Aparna_BD


 

hum log eik saath hotye, aur shaeed kafi successfull hotye.


Posted: 18 years ago
Originally posted by heart girl


 

coz it was made by India's help. the minister of east Pakistan back stabed Pakistan in 1971. General Niazi's army was fighting with the Indian Army, and from the back, the ppl who were with that guy, started firing Pakistani Army. that is the reason General Niazi has to drop the weapons. because "jin ko apna banaya tha. wohi dhuka deh gaye."

 

aaj bhi Bangladesh doesn't consider Pakistan their "Muslim Brothers" it is there fault. they showed that when in 2000 Cricket world cup, when Pakistan let Bangladesh win. they went back to their country and celebrited in that Paltan ground.

 

as for conquring, ask those who are fighting. I never told anyone to fight. I think world is going bak to the dark ages. Insaan, janwar saye insaan bana tha. aur aab wapis janwar ban raha hai. idhar fight aab power ki hai.

 

that is the reason, yeh floods aur earthquakes aatye hain. God tells man that He is the greatest power.

 

 

Posted: 18 years ago

Good discussion, but I reiterate the request made earlier. Since it is a sensitive topic, members are requested to refrain from making personal or hateful comments and restrict it to impersonal and positive comments/ critisisms only.

Originally posted by Ms. Bholi Bhali




Since 1947 both India and Pakistan are fighting for a piece of land. This issue has been talked so much that it has now lost the real meaning. Losing or gaining that piece has become an ego problem for both. This ego kills everyday a son, a brother, or a father. This ego problem has totally ignored what the people of that land (Kashmir) want. Today they want a separate country for themselves. They don't want to be part of Pakistan or India. Why would they be?? What have they gained so far? Why can't India and Pakistan leave them alone. Kaab taak laroo gaye uss jaga keh liye jidhar ki mitti bhi tumhara saath nahian dehti. Iss saye pehlye ko who mitti nafrat karnye lagye, uss ko chor doh. Kyun keh iss larai saye kisi ko kuch nahian milnye wala. Sirf eik insaan ki baat maanye keh liye, 1000s logoon ko kyun maar rahye ho? Woh tu pidha hi duniya ko bardad karnye keh liye howa hai. ( I am talking about Bush)

Completely agree. What they wanted is now completely forgotten. Any time the subject is broached, both sides will start pulling out different statistics and reasons to go to war. They have lost sight of solution.




100% RIGHT.

Kyun jhagad rahe hain, yeh thik thik pata nahi. Aaap agar sipahi se poocho, toh woh yahi kahega ki unke dada ya pita ya par dada, koi pichle war mein maare gaye. Unhe unka badla lena hai.

Koi Neta se poocho, toh woh election ke agenda hota hai.

Par in sab ko chod, agar aap upar ke is ladai ko nazar andaaz kar dekhe, toh ek baath hai....

Sarhad ke dono taraf insaan hi hai. Insaan jo ek zamane thak saath rahe the... Ek rashtra ke log maane jaate the. Koi teesra aaya, apni koi matlab ke liye ek ghar ko thod kar chale gaye.. aur us baath ke liye, hum aaj bhi jhagad rahe hain... Unko jo karna tha, woh karke chale gaye... hum aaj bhi wahin baite hain...

Why not just put the past behind us and work towards a better future.
Posted: 18 years ago
Just a passing thought. If the two Germanies could unite as a single nation, why can't India and Pakistan unite as a single nation. How much different is a Pakistani from an Indian? Why are both the governments fighting over a piece of land when issues like alarmingly high Infant Mortality Rates and Maternal Mortality Rates rages in both the nations. As better citizens of both the countries, can't we ask these questions to our nation keepers instead of fighting over a piece of land. A lot of damage has occured since the partition; does the new generation of Indians and Pakistanis still want further damage.

Related Topics

doc-text Topics pencil Author stackexchange Replies eye Views clock Last Post Reply
Sustainable Off-grid Living in India

pencil Summon.All   stackexchange 9   eye 844

Summon.All 9 844 1 months ago Summon.All

Topic Info

27 Participants 153 Replies 10796Views

Topic started by heart girl

Last replied by heart girl

loader
loader
up-open TOP