|| Mythological Masti :: Doubts & Discussions || - Page 2

Posted: 12 years ago
@Visrom


(Had a discussion about the same topic with Shivang some time back, now trying to note down some points from that convo.)


Lord Parashuram was the sixth Avtaar of Vishu, and yes, we all know He had 'anger' as the main characteristic in him, but like all the other Avataars of the Lord, here also, it was used for the 'Cause' (i.e.- Maintenance of the Creation/ 'srishti pratipaalan'), in the way Lord wished it to happen. 


Initially, I was also unable to 'perceive'   Lord Shri Hari in Parashuram in Sita Swayambar (RS 'Ramayan'), but gradually understood that He had Tremendous Power in Him in the past. But as Shri Ram came to earth, the Power/ Potentail  of the Lord Shri Hari transferred from Lord Parashuram to Shri Ram.  And thus after Lord Parashuram, Shri Ram became the main avataar in Treta Yug. I think that is the 'essence' of that particular sc in 'Ramayan' that after it, Shri Ram was considered as the Prime Avataar of Shri Hari by all.  


Here are some links on Lord Parashuram, where you'll get the stories in detail:


http://sitagita.com/mind-body-and-soul/grandma-stories/parashuram-avtaar.html 
Posted: 12 years ago
Debipriya

Agree w/ everything else you wrote, except that Wikipedia should be taken w/ a pinch of salt.

visirom

1.  The reason Parashuram was born was that Bhumi Devi was overburdened by kshatriyas, particularly Kartavirya Arjuna, and wanted to be relieved of a lot of them.  That's why Vishnu took birth.  In the ACK you mention, they describe how Parashuram's grandma & mother switched potions that were meant for each other, and as a result, Parashuram's uncle was destined to be an ascetic, despite being a kshatriya, while Parashuram, despite being a brahmin, became a warrior.

Anyway, the fight started when Kartavirya Arjuna wanted Jamadagni's calf, and stole it @ night, in response to which Parashuram killed him.  Kartavirya's sons in return killed Jamadagni, and Parashuram over retaliated, wiping out 7 generations of kshatriyas b4 Kashyap called on him to stop and exiled him from earth.

2.  Yeah, his father once tested him on his loyalty by ordering him to do that.  He unquestioningly did it, and his father told him that since his brothers had refused, he had cursed them to go mad.  Parashuram then asked for her to be revived and his brothers to be cured when his father offered him a boon.

3.  In Sita's swayamvar, the accounts vary.  In Valmiki, Parashuram did not go to the swayamvar, but accosted Dasharath when the baraat was returning to Ayodhya, and that was where Rama accepted his challenge to string Vishnu's bow.  C Rajagopalacharya commented that this was where Vishnu's incarnation ceased to be in Parashuram, and started in Rama.  In Tulsidas, they mention that Parashuram went to the swayamvar itself after Rama broke the bow - this is what they showed in both the RS and AS Ramayans.

Personally, I don't like Parashuram much, given his behavior was the ultimate 'guilt by association' - b'cos one kshatriya family murdered his father, he retaliated by wiping out 21 generations of ksatriyas.  He also made Dronacharya the most lethal Brahmin in history (aside from himself) and was indirectly the reason the entire Pandava army was wiped out (most of the warriors killed in Kurukshetra on the Pandava side were killed by Drona and Ashwatthama)  I'm thankful that he's not as widely worshipped as is Rama or Krishna.  Also, whereas Rama and Krishna remained avatars until they returned to Vaikunta-dham, Parashuram ceased to be an avatar after his meeting w/ Rama, if not earlier - he's immortal, but not an avatar any more.
Posted: 12 years ago
I'm also not a huge fan of Parashuram, as Ram and Krishna are my favorite Vishnu avatars and then Narasimha after them, but I guess I understand why Parashuram had to come. Only thing I don't understand is why he wiped out innocent Kshatriyas. Would Sri Hari really do that 'for 'the greater good'? Or were those wiped out Kshatriyas all Adharmis, in which case it makes sense?
Posted: 12 years ago
In the ACK which visrom cited, Parashuram indiscriminately slaughtered innocent kshatriyas as well, ending up in total lawlessness, and Bhoomi Devi approached Kashyap asking him to stop Parashuram.  That was when he intervened and put some very stringent conditions on Parashuram.  I don't know ACK's source, but I doubt they'd have manufactured something that damning, unless it wasn't actually there in the originals.

I personally have a dim view of both Parashuram and Vamana: Vamana was basically out to cheat Bali, who unlike other asuras/rakshashas like Hiranyaksha, Hiranyakashipu, Ravan, Tarakasura, Surapadman, Mahishashur, et al was not a tyrant, and only went to war w/ the Devas b'cos Indra had murdered his father for no reason but envy.  Aside from that, I like Narasimha, Varaha, Kurma (not Mohini 😆) and Matsya.
Posted: 12 years ago
Originally posted by _Vrish_


Vamana was basically out to cheat Bali, who unlike other asuras/rakshashas like Hiranyaksha, Hiranyakashipu, Ravan, Tarakasura, Surapadman, Mahishashur, et al was not a tyrant, and only went to war w/ the Devas b'cos Indra had murdered his father for no reason but envy.  Aside from that, I like Narasimha, Varaha, Kurma (not Mohini 😆) and Matsya.

Vamana Avtar was very much needed at that time otherwise bali could have ruled over all three worlds! So that was fair :)
Posted: 12 years ago
^ Yeah, I also like Vaman avatar. Bali was not completely innocent and he was out to get the throne of Indra so that the Danavas could rule the Devas, which would eventually result in Adharma ruling Dharma. Vishnu could never let that happen, so I can see complete justification in Vaman Avatar.
 
It is Parashuram's avatar in which I cannot see justification, and I still find it hard to believe Vishnu could have slaughtered innocent humans, esp since Ram and Krishna avatars were all about the protection of innocent beings. It doesn't make sense.
Posted: 12 years ago
Originally posted by JanakiRaghunath


^ Yeah, I also like Vaman avatar. Bali was not completely innocent and he was out to get the throne of Indra so that the Danavas could rule the Devas, which would eventually result in Adharma ruling Dharma. Vishnu could never let that happen, so I can see complete justification in Vaman Avatar.
 
It is Parashuram's avatar in which I cannot see justification, and I still find it hard to believe Vishnu could have slaughtered innocent humans, esp since Ram and Krishna avatars were all about the protection of innocent beings. It doesn't make sense.

I am not sure but should we compare parshuram's killing kshatriyas and Krishna's allowing yadavs to kill themselves on a same scale?? As parshuram killed kshatriyas due to revenge and kshatriya's involvement in adharma's activities (I am not sure If I used the right word..).. at the same time Krishna wasn't happy with yadavs seeing them very proud on their strength and he actually pushed them to fight..so that society of yadavs can be demolished..

please comment and correct me if I am wrong somewhere..
Posted: 12 years ago
Originally posted by jaisiyaram



I am not sure but should we compare parshuram's killing kshatriyas and Krishna's allowing yadavs to kill themselves on a same scale?? As parshuram killed kshatriyas due to revenge and kshatriya's involvement in adharma's activities (I am not sure If I used the right word..).. at the same time Krishna wasn't happy with yadavs seeing them very proud on their strength and he actually pushed them to fight..so that society of yadavs can be demolished..

please comment and correct me if I am wrong somewhere..
 
Hmm, I don't think we can compare them like that, because first off in Parashuram's case, it is unfair and biased to generalize all kshatriyas as sinners. That is the same thing as putting down one particular caste and Lord Vishnu, as displayed both in Ram and Krishna avatars, gave importance to all castes and never unfairly differentiated people. So Parashuram did kill innocent Kshatriyas, and that is the aspect I find hard to justify.
 
As for Shri Krishna and the Yadavas, Krishna needed a way in which to remove them from Earth, because no one in the world had the power to kill the Yadavas and they eventually had to leave Earth after Krishna Avatar, because no being can be immortal and there would be no use for them to continue on to Kali Yuga. Also, the Yadavas were all incarnations of Devtas, so they needed to return to their divine abode. If no one had the power to kill the Yadavas, how were they to leave Earth? So Krishna divised a plan where they killed each other. He personally never slaughtered them, they only slaughtered each other. So Krishna cannot be held directly accountable for that.
 
Interesting comparison though...
Posted: 12 years ago
Originally posted by JanakiRaghunath


 
Hmm, I don't think we can compare them like that, because first off in Parashuram's case, it is unfair and biased to generalize all kshatriyas as sinners. That is the same thing as putting down one particular caste and Lord Vishnu, as displayed both in Ram and Krishna avatars, gave importance to all castes and never unfairly differentiated people. So Parashuram did kill innocent Kshatriyas, and that is the aspect I find hard to justify.
 
As for Shri Krishna and the Yadavas, Krishna needed a way in which to remove them from Earth, because no one in the world had the power to kill the Yadavas and they eventually had to leave Earth after Krishna Avatar, because no being can be immortal and there would be no use for them to continue on to Kali Yuga. Also, the Yadavas were all incarnations of Devtas, so they needed to return to their divine abode. If no one had the power to kill the Yadavas, how were they to leave Earth? So Krishna divised a plan where they killed each other. He personally never slaughtered them, they only slaughtered each other. So Krishna cannot be held directly accountable for that.
 
Interesting comparison though...

Yes true.. but Krishna's mind was behind yadav's departure.. And killing each other was the right medium as Krishna left with the message that absolute power can't be retained by any individual.. and one should not proud of it.. it's dharma which will take you to moksha not power! 

And after all everything was already preplanned.. the purpose was solved and there was no need of Yadavas.. 

Even ramayan was preplanned and in ramcharitramans..tulsidas ji explained that while leaving for vanvas, kaikai maa shown her disappointment for which shri ram said "maa, kuch mat bolo warna bhed khul jaayega (Please do not say anything, else the secret will be revealed..)".. so whenevery thing was planned why should we argue about ram banished sita episode.. !

(I am impossible, i took it from parshuram to krishna to yadavs to shri ram to tulsidas to uttar kand again... i won't get over it! )
Edited by jaisiyaram - 12 years ago
Posted: 12 years ago

I am back to the Dasha Avtar book again. In that again it was mentioned that the Yadavs had become vain and proud of their own powers, also because they felt they had Krishna with them they could do anything. Therefore they started destroying each other.

 
But here again, there is another factor involved - Gandhari. She has cursed Krishna for having allowed all her 100 sons to die, even though He had to power to prevent that. She had cursed Krishna that He would die a lonely death along with the entire Yadav clan. So, the Yadavs destroying themselves and Lord Krishna being hit by a hunter's arrow was due to Gandhari's curse.
 
But Parshuram is someone I am unable to accept, and I am happy that I am not alone. 😆  Maybe the Kshatriyas whom he detroyed had done something drastically wrong. Can't say.
 
There are also some varying opinions on the 9th avtar of Lord Vishnu. Dasha Avtar names Buddha as the 9th avtar, whereas in many temples of Lord Krishna I find Balram mentioned as an avtar of Vishnu. Both are things I am unable to accept.
 
I feel Balram was an avtar of Sesh Nag, just like Lakshman. (B R Chopras Mahabharat always showed Balram with a snake shaped crown.)
 
Would like to know your opinions on this too. 
Edited by visrom - 12 years ago

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