Brahman Hatya - possible for God of the universe?

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Posted: 13 years ago
As you all know, after the battle of Lanka and Ram, Lakshman, Sita are on their way back to Ayodhya, Ramji performs a puja to Lord Shiva to rid himself of Brahman Hatya for killing Ravan. (There are different versions of this story....some claim he did it before fighting with Ravan and some say he did the puja afterwards).
 
Do you think it is possible for GOD, who created the entire universe, to be touched by the sin of Brahman Hatya? After all, he is the creator and destroyer, and at his will the world moves. Do you think Ramji acted like he got Brahman Hatya to set an example for everyone else, or was he really touched by Brahman Hatya?
Posted: 13 years ago
Very nice question. For setting example Janaki. I am sure about it in my mind (I mean I am clear about it as per my theory without two minds). I think you also have the same opinion. Not only the point of being GOD not affected by any sin, I would go even beyond in my logic and understanding and interpretation that even HE as a human had no reason to be affected by the sin because Ravan was no longer a Brahmin. He was Brahmin by birth but these classifications are not by birth but by principles of karma. Purely functional/professional classification. As per Manusmruti, if a Brahmin doesn't follow the daily rituals and duties of a Brahmin and falls below in behaviour/character as per the standards of the Varna, he should be outcast (demoted) and he has to undergo certain Praayaschit rituals or penance to keep himself still in the category of a Brahmin after a sin. Ravan was a continuous sinner so no question of calling him a Brahmin. So I personally can't totally believe logically in these mytho stories or even if I believe, I believe in them to be the actions done just for setting an example without any other need for himself. Edited by ShivangBuch - 13 years ago
Posted: 13 years ago

superb discussion post

although I cannot point to the right answer to this one but I think the fact that Ramji was a God no one knew in the actual story so I think in one part he was asking for forgiveness to set an example..and another way i think of it is that no matter how big the creation/creator we all need to stand ardent w/ our values and morals

Posted: 13 years ago
Well Shri Ram came to the earth to give an example to humans on how to live. Nothing he ever did was worth repenting, he never committed a sin. But if he didn't do this, then there would be people committing that sin, feeling fully justified as "that was what Ram had done." So I guess it was simply to set an example to others.
Also another point is that he might have been affected by this. I mean, even though God is beyond paap and punye, he still is trapped in maya when he is incarnated as a human being. And even though he freed the earth from Ravan, that karma might have not left him until he performed that puja. I mean, even though Shri Krishna conducted the Mahabharat for the good of man kind, and he himself is God and above Maya, Gandhari cursed him that he would have to die and Krishna accepted that. So basically, God, when incarnated as man, needed to live with the working principles of the world.

Did that make any sense? :D I sometimes go on and on without a point. And I don't want to upset anyone if their beliefs are otherwise.
Edited by AishuJSKfan - 13 years ago
Posted: 13 years ago
You know even Shiva was once burdened by the sin of Brahman Hatya...Very few people know that Brahma was born with 5 heads...His 4 heads, pointing North, East, West and South, symbolized purity, chastity, knowledge and love...But his fifth head, at the center, symbolized lust, desire, ego, ignorance and arrogance - precisely all the negative qualities of living beings...

With time, Brahma's fifth head began to dominate other 4 heads and under the influence of this head, he started tampering with the Vedas and he started scripting his own 5th Veda which was actually an Anti-Veda ; it denounced all the Vedic knowledge and induced evil rituals and dark magic...Vishnu asked Brahma to refrain from his behaviour...But Brahma took no notice...

At this Mahakaal (Shiva) appeared before Brahma and ordered him to stop at once, Brahma laughed at him and declared himself as the Supreme one...Mahakaal severed Brahma's fifth head with his Trishul and burnt the Veda which Brahma was writing...From that time, Brahma has only 4 heads and 4 Vedas..

Now since Brahma was the first and highest of Brahmins, and Mahakaal had killed a Brahmin, he imposed upon himself a punishment...According to the Vedas, anyone who kills a Brahmin will die out of starvation...So Shiva started wandering about the three worlds with Brahma's severed head, begging for food...Since Shiva was hungry, the universe too was starving...Food disappeared from the universe..Vishnu prayed to Parvati/Shakti to salvage the situation...Shakti promised to help...She manifested as Devi Annapurna, with a never ending supply of food, and fed Shiva and thus saved the universe...

(After this incident, Lord Vishnu manifested in Dwaparg Yug as Sage Vyasa and re-edited the 4 Vedas, which Brahma had distorted, so that Vedic knowledge and practices could be reestablished. That is why he's known as Veda Vyasa...The part of the life that Shiva snuffed out of Brahma, manifested as Kali (not the Goddess)..Kali is the evil spirit, who dominates the present Yuga)

Rama was born as a common man and that is why he had placed upon himself all the restrictions of a common man..Both Vishnu and Shiva are limitless and boundless..But still, to set an ideal example, they allow themselves to be bound by the laws of nature which they themselves had laid down...

Jai Sat-Chit-Anand
Posted: 13 years ago
Thanks Rehan nice infoo.......

Janu : Lord Vishnu in Ram roop took birth just not to kill ravan to set an example for ppl so He's known as Puroshotam (The Great Man)
same he did when performed Shiv Pooja.. He set an example for others that Brahmin hatya is Sin... but how cud he ignore death/ killing of an evil..
Edited by ...PARiNA... - 13 years ago
Posted: 13 years ago
Ram was unaware of the fact that he was an incarnation and he is actually Lord Vishnu. So He acted in the same way a normal human being would have done. But Ravan himself calls a Rakshs and he was Brahmin only by birth. He himself have resulted in the death of many Brahmins. But Ram being "Maryadapurushotham" he wanted to get rid off all the sins and performed the Shiv pooja.
Posted: 13 years ago
lakshmin42 : Ram ji was aware that He is Shri Vishnu ... !!
Posted: 13 years ago
@Rehan, yes! I too have heard of that story before in many different versions! When Brahma first created his shakti, Saraswati mata, he was filled with lust and grew a fifth head to look at her. She went away from him as lust is a sinful thought, and Lord Shiva came to sever his fifth head. And yes, another version told about the fifth anti Veda. Lord Shiva had obviously done the right thing, but having to suffer for it was another one of his leelas. If one is unattached from the universe, how could he go hungry. God only shows his greatness in such acts, and then Maa Shakti manifested as Annapurna because of this, so it indeed was a benefit for all.

@Parina di, yes, I agree that how could he not stop the evil, but again, by suffering, he is not showing that he is deserving the punishment, only establishing that anybody who killed a brahman would have to suffer. Lord Shiva is beyond pleasure and pain, he is the almighty himself.

@Lakshmin42, There are many disputes over whether he was aware or not he was Vishnu. In many instances actually, I think he proclaimed he was God. But nonetheless, he did take an avatar as a man and used the capabilities of one to destroy sin.
Posted: 13 years ago
Beautiful Topic Janu di!
ok!
With my pea-sized brain.... here is what I think.

God had taken human form on earth as Lord Rama.
He did so????
Because he wanted to set an example of how a human life is ideally supposed to be.
He showed them both sides of the coin.
He showed that happiness and sorrows are part and parcel of life and how one must behave in various situations.
To all whose parents are Sanskrit students, you might have heard numerous times that Krishna Ji was solah kala sampurna.
Rama Ji however, was chaudanh kala sampoorna.
Confused?
Lemme explain.
Krishna ji hid the sun in the war to save Arjun.
Krishna Ji had numerous Ranis...
Rama Ji had taken the oath of one wife.
Rama Ji never could bend facts.
He could not force Sita Maiya to change her decision to go to exile for his Raja Dharma.
He was bound.
Thus, 14 kala sampoorna.
Now, yes, I am coming to the answer.
Brahmana hatya could not have touched LORD VISHNU... He is the creator.... He is the Destroyer... He can take the life he has given.
But His Human Incarnation.... LORD RAMA was bound by principles. he needed to set an example for all human beings that what it means to kill a Brahman.
He is so pure that he cannot even be touched by anything false.
But, just to set the HUMAN CODE OF CONDUCT he followed all these rituals.

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