BR Chopra's Mahabharat Chat Club # 1| Pg. 78,79(Page 73)

Posted: 2010-06-14T19:59:50Z
Wooooooooooooooooooow, GORGEOUS sig Lola! LOVE the textures and brushes you used, very unique and cute! Goes well with the sig, and perfect text too! :D Really love your choice of pics as well, def snagging it into my slideshow tomorrow when I update it!
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Posted: 2010-06-16T00:15:20Z
Originally posted by JanakiRaghunath

Hey Guys,
I have finally updated the ToC!Dancing Soooo sorry for the delay, but it's soooo hard managing the ToCs of both CC that I tend to neglect one when another is active.Cry But I love BRC's MB sooooooooooooo much that I promise to be as active here as much as I am at RS's one.EmbarrassedBig smile Also, I'm sorry, but I cannot change the layout of our ToC to match our RS one right now since we already have so many pages. It will take me too much time and I don't have as much time to spend on the comp as I did before.Cry But I promise that once we finish this CC (which I hope will be soon), I will do the next one in the same layout as RS's. Until then, please check for any mistakes I may have made in our ToC now. Did I leave anything out? Wow, you guys have some GREAT discussions going on, def want to participate!Tongue
Superb DOTW topic dear! But plzzzzzzz keep the topic going for at least this weekend more, because I really really want to participate and won't be able to find time until tomorrow or the day after.Embarrassed Bhishma is one of my fav characters in MB, though I too agree that he had a bunch of faults and I was disappointed with his character and some point in MB, but I would love to discuss this in detail tomorrow or the day after, so plzzzz hang on till then!
Thanks sooooooooooooo much for the beautiful Pic Update!Hug You captured many superb expressions on everyone's faces. My fav was Arjuna remembering being on Bhishma's lap when young.Cry Such a heartbreaking scene, really brings to perspective just how depressed he became seeing his family on the other side. Will def make some sigs on that soon, as well as post more pics of it from my VCDs when I find it.LOL
Superb Geeta siggies, really well done.Clap Love the textures and effects you used! Very well done!
thnk u sooooo much di for liking the pics n siggies ....
sure di .... infact we shud keep ol the DOTWs open .... so that wenever any has any point to discuss they can do it .... Embarrassed
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Posted: 2010-06-16T00:21:03Z
Originally posted by JanakiRaghunath

Hey Guys,
Here are two siggies I made based on the Bhagawad Gita episode.Big smile Feel Free to Use!
awesome di .... m usnig the 2nd one...
n thnk u soooooooooooooo much for the lovely pic update ... looking forward for many more pic updates ... Wink
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Posted: 2010-06-16T02:40:23Z
Hello every1..I will take a break from IF as I have hurt my right hand..hope to be back next week Smile
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Posted: 2010-06-18T19:55:39Z
Hey Guys,
Here is a Bhagawad Gita combo sig I made of our RS SK and BRC MB....
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Posted: 2010-07-02T05:24:20Z
This is our Ganga Maiyya (Kiran Juneja) at Raajneeti succes bash
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Posted: 2010-07-11T10:16:30Z
Originally posted by Dpka1415

Ok so here v start with our



Ok i'l start with Gaandhari's life . . Wel I think in her life it was her own decision of leading life as blind person which played much more important role . . If she knew her husband was blind then she should have helped him lead a quality life by taking important decisions herself. . Instead she allowed shakuni to take charge of her son. . ConfusedAngry
Mujhe toh ye nahi samjh aya shakuni ne shaadi kari kab thi?? LOLLOLMaine toh humesha use hastinapur me hi dekha tha. . Lol. . Big smileLOL
Ok cuming back on track. . I feel agar Gaandhari ne wise decision liya hota toh Mahabharat kuch aur hi hoti. . CryI know she always tried to control the so called putra moh of Dritrashtra but I think a mother plays a very imp role. .she should hav not allowed her brother influence her sons' life. .n thats for sure that she was wel aware of shakuni's character . .

NOTE : These r my individual opinions. . I never meant to hurt anyone's feelings ;)

I totally agree with your views on Gandhari Deepika. I know weeks have passed and this can now be called Discussion of the month until next is started, but I am naturally driven to these sort of debates so thought to post even if it is late. On the topic, many members have expressed their views so well already and Debipriya has written so very well analyzed essay on the situation that much less is left to be added. Also my views on Bhishma written by me on Orkut are scattered and spreaded across so many different threads that it was very difficult to compile them for posting here and hence I was just waiting for some real opportunity or natural spark to inject those already written contents somewhere here at appropriate place in the logical flow. But I got that spark in the other CC in the Kumbhakarna topic rather than here on Bhishma when I found time.

I agree with all the dimensions mentioned about Kashiraj's swayamvar in Debipriya's post. Bhishma accepting the outcome of his action (whether or not he was actually guilty conscious) courageously and Ved Vyas's plot to set the end of the noble character with Ichchhamrityu vardan were too good insights (even though I would say that had there not been such plot set by the destiny, Bhishma still would have left his body at will after becoming Poorna kaam happily and also he could have been cheeranjeevi like other cheeranjeevis and could have left the body without any cause even).

Now regarding Gandhaari, personally, just like you, I believe her sacrifice not to be sensible and not of any utility for the person for whom she made that sacrifice other than that of making herself equally fortunate as much as her husband was fortunate. It reminds me of the movie Aarazoo (Directed by Ramanand Sagar) in which the girl (Saadhna) in the end was attempting to make herself handicapped with one leg to match her outward look and comforts of life with that of the hero (Rajendra Kumar). Mai apne aap ko tumhaare baraabar kar deti hun. This decision made everybody around her terrified and wouldn't have added any practical utility in life of the hero after marriage but for the further sorrow (But that decision was just taken in excitement to prove a point). On the contrary, both husband and wife would have become burden on someone else - third person - some relative or servant throughout the life. Imagine if the hero (Shahid Kapoor) in the movie 'Vivah' would have taken the same decision of burning his entire body below his face instead what he actually undertook to be his duty. If husband is blind, wife should on the contrary be open eyed to view the life all around to make their life better with fulfillment of their mutual/joint duties better. Wife can thus share the unfulfilled duties or make the fulfillment of unfeasible duties of husband feasible by becoming his eyes (By becoming complementary or supplementary - Bharat Mandvi scene). So the decision of Gandhari I feel should fall under the category of Tamas Tap or Tamas Tyag as per Bhagwad Geeta.

Now question arises why Gandhari must have made such decision. Bhishma doesn't seem to have made any pressure on her or her father in this issue (Any kind of threat or coercion or fear of power of kingdom of Hastinapur or fear of personal power of Bhishma). She possibly might have accepted the marriage proposal out of her virtuous nature straightaway. I don't know whether she was a good looking or beautiful lady or not. I don't know whether that was the first marriage proposal to her or not. I don't know whether she was under the fear of saving her kingdom Gandhaar from the potential or possible anger of Bhishma or not. But she was devotee of Lord Shiv (I don't know whether Lord Shiv was worshiped in her part of the world or not and I am also not sure whether she was Shiv's devotee before her marriage but she was virtuous lady for sure from that inference with the command of emotional content over her intellect at the time of taking the important decisions of her life) and she might be so good lady that she might not have felt it to be good in rejecting the proposal of someone purely on the ground of blindness (One may look at it to be a kind of mercy like one feels on poor or handicapped) or she might have taken it up as challenge/God's will/Tap to have come naturally in front of her as her destiny. She can be put among those virtuous people who make sacrifices out of emotions and egoistic excitement of making the sacrifice before the actual & appropriate opportunity arises of the real needful sacrifice. Eagerness to register the name among the people of great sacrifices without any real help to anyone or for any needful real great cause. And eventually she wasted the fruit of her TAP as she attempted again to use it out of ignorance and attachment. Overall, I don't like the character of Gandhari portrayed in BRC MB but like her character portrayed in RS's SK. More or less neutral but more towards liking in SK and more towards dislike in MB.

Relevant verse of Geeta on sacrifices made without using intellect -

Adhyay 17 - Shlok 19

Moodhgraahenaatmano yat, peedayaa kriyate tapah;
Parasyotsaadanaartham va, tat taamasamudaahrutam.

(Though this verse is more applicable to Hiranyakashyapu kind of TAP rather than Gandhari because even though she made sacrifice using heart rather than brain but the objective was not to harass others but the verse is still applicable mostly due to first half of the first line IMO)

Adhyay 18 - Shlok 7

Niyatasya tu sanyaasah, karmano na upapadhyate;
Mohaattasya parityaagah, taamasah parikeertitah.

(Actually this verse literally means sacrifice of KARMA - Akarmanyata - out of laziness or ignorance instead of creating a situation of not being able to fulfill the duties in future like what Gandhari did with her 'Aankhon par patti' decision. But this verse also is partly applicable to Gandhari I think - the essence of the verse - the word 'MOH' or ignorance in the second line - she made herself incapable of fulfilling her duty as mother of Duryodhan rightly by making herself blind and also allowing Shakuni to stay in Hastinapur as permanent guest despite knowing his nature & intentions very well with all the more likelihood.)

And Even if Bhishma had slightest of influence in her decision of accepting marriage proposal, he surely can't have any influence on her decision to become blind like the husband. And the marriage of Gandhari itself did no harm to Aaryaavart. It was her needless sacrifice to become blind, her brother becoming permanent guest (To whom Bhishma obviously couldn't say not to stay) and her lack of control over Duryodhan's growing up & childhood that lead to destruction - leave aside her lack of control over Dhritrarashtra's ambitions.
Edited by ShivangBuch - 2010-07-11T20:58:27Z
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Posted: 2010-07-11T22:02:06Z
Originally posted by lola610

Debi di, I was just thinking about the dotw idea you had about revenge and came up with one discussion question that I had to put here now so I don't forget. I'll try to phrase it better when I get home, but for now here it is:

The character of Drishtadyumna is basically created as a mechanism for revenge, an instrument of brahma-hatya at that... how much control did such a character have over his karm, and how would he incur karm-phal if he was made for murder? Did he have some sort of conscience which could influence him and make him lead a different life, other than what Dhrupad wanted him for? And if not, could he really suffer any consequences or would they go straight on Dhrupad's books?

This is a master piece of question Lola.

Let me try to collect my views:

Even Krishna was born to kill Kans and he was going to do that anyhow. So killing of Drona - the act by itself can't be said to be the act to condemn Dhrishtdhyumna or even to forgive him without looking at the circumstances around, the cause and the real intention inside the mind of the killer (Satva gun - for noble cause, Rajas gun - to get some personal benefit from the murder, Tamas gun - to avenge past action with grudge and anger). Through his better conscience and greater virtuous nature than he actually had, Dhristdhyumn would still have found the reason to kill Dron if he was really destined to do it. The fact that he wanted to kill Dron anyhow rather than for righteous reason, he didn't wait for the proper time and did that dreadful act. Killing of Dron was not his choice (because that was his Praarabdha karma) but the time, reason & way to kill was his choice (Kaarit karma) like Krishna didn't kill Kans/Shishupal until they made it absolutely essential for him to kill them (even though he was born to do that). He stopped Balaram from killing Jarasandh. He left alone Rukmi. Same thing applies to Lord Ram. His birth was meant for killing Ravan and everyone knew that. But still he was ready to forgive Ravan.

Dhrushthdhyumn did that act naturally. And his nature must be IMO such in his longer journey of the soul even in the immediate previous birth. That's why I think, nobody else (nobler soul) but he was born as Drupad's son. Since Drupad's intention of yagya was revenge & evil desire (Raajsik + Taamasik yagya), the fruit was also going to be Rajas + Tamas (Dhrishtdhyumn). He was also provided with the cause (Draupadi) as by-product. Since the yagya was not of the same quality as that of king Dashrath's putra kaamesthi yagya, the way of killing, reason of killing and time of killing of Drona was also not like those of killing of Ravan. The action that he had to do was the result of his previous birth sanchit karma or his accumulated nature thus far in the spiritual journey I think but the way he did psychologically was his still lasting nature (still lasting spiritual status towards the end of that ongoing birth) and the construction (Sanchit karma) of his subsequent birth Praarabdh karma.

If the destiny really wanted the end of Drona anyhow for the victory of dharma in the Kurukshetra battle, then it would have given more power to Dhrishtdhyumna anyhow to kill Drona when they had the opportunity to confront each other in the battle (If Dhrishtdhyumn was as ethical as Ram in war ethics). Even if Dhrisht didn't have own power to kill Drona, he could have had external shakti (like Karna possessed) if he was reliable enough to use that weapon properly. After all, Drona's end was destined through his hand only and not necessarily through his actual ability to do that but even through the support of the resources/circumstances/fortune/grace of God. It is up to him how & when he chooses his actions of life (even if decided even before his birth to occur) with patience & with good reason backed by some virtue. Related to this, I like one dialog of Prof Dumbledore to Harry Potter very much. Our identity is not what talent we have got but how we use it. Our choices of life.

In short, the actions are independent of intentions. Deeds are independent of the process of virtue development inside us. We are not directly but indirectly responsible for our current actions. Directly, our nature - three gunas - is responsible. But we are responsible to let that nature develop in us for long term since the past. Upadrashtaa anumantaa cha (Adhyay 13). What we do today is the result of our state of realization of soul. But what we will be doing in future depends upon our focus on development of our character/nature/virtues. Aatmaiva hi aatmano bandhuhu, aatmaiva ripuraatmanah. Aur jo kuchh hona hota hai uski aadhaarsheelaa to bahut pahele hi se rakhi ja chuki hoti hai, parantu jo honewala hai uska daayitva, keval manushya ke upar hai. Dhrisht could just have focused on the development of highest virtues in him without worrying about the successful accomplishment of the purpose of his birth and could have left that on God. Then some day it would have anyhow occurred. Jo karna hi pada, wo to karna hi padega na bua. Yadi yuddh me aanaa hi hai to pehele we log aaye. Yadi Dron ko mere haathon marnaa hi hai to bhi mai tab tak nahi maarungaa jab tak Drona mujhe aisa karne par puri tarah se majboor na kare.

Adhyay 5 Verse 10

Brahmanyaadhaay karmaani, sangam tyaktva karoti yah;
Lipyate na sa paapen, padmapatramivaambhasaa.

To an extent he waited also for the cause (Kurukshetra war). But that was because he wanted the support of Pandavas. He was always eager for the war. Draupadi's insult was more an excuse for him rather than genuine cause. This behaviour of his was the result of type of yagya I was mentioning. Also worthwhile to note that in BRC MB, it is shown that the yagya was not sincerely performed. It was not well organized and also not performed with the intended procedure of Drupad's wife sitting beside him. And the performer was also angry & egoistic at that time.

Adhyay 17 Verses 11 to 13

Aphalaakaankshibhiryagno, vidhidrashto ya ijyate;
Yashtavyameviti manah, samaadhaay sa saatvikah.

Abhisandhaaya tu phalam, dambhaarthamapi chaiva yat;
Ijyate Bharatshresth, tam yagnam viddhi raajasam.

Vidhiheenamasrushtaannam, mantraheenamadakshinam;
Shraddhaaviraheetam yagnam, taamasam parichakshate.

Adhyay 14 verse 16

Karmanah sukrutasyaahu, saatvikam nirmalam phalam;
Rajasastu phalam dukham, agnyaanam tamasah phalam.

Edited by ShivangBuch - 2010-07-13T02:21:37Z
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