Stop blaming Ovi now

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Hillylove

@Hillylove

Dazzler

Posted: 12 years ago

#61

Hi Rhapsody,😃

There lies the problem, I know it is the "norm," in Western Countries (I made reference to that in my post) but it is not right. As a matter of fact, Christians in the USA, don't condone it. They even have movies such as "Jumping the broom," depicting how we should really go about our sex life.

Norms are not always right, and if you even put God aside for a second, and really analyse the world, premarital sex is destructive in so many ways. It affects children emotionally, feelings of not being wanted, confusion that lead to even crimes, diseases and the list goes on. Why are they so many single Mothers? Many don't know the Fathers, some have to take multiple paternity tests to find out who the Fathers are.. Look at this chaos, can it really be right to have premarital sex? Look at the world closely, and forget fun, and feeling liberated and doing as you please, is the really serving us as humans to live like this?

Look at Purvi's situation, if she had waited until marriage, yes she would have accepted the deal, but there would be no Poor Pari caught in the middle of this mess. Purvi would not have to leave her home and go off to another city to find a man to cover her shame. All of this would not have happened, so how can Premarital sex be right? be the sensible way to live your life?

Don't mean to preach to you.

Edited by hillydee - 12 years ago

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Priya

@Rhapsody

Navigator

+ 3

Posted: 12 years ago

#62

I think we just come from very different perspectives/worldviews/expectations. I respect if someone has made the choice to wait until marriage, but I think it's your own personal decision if you want to do it before as well.

I really don't think it's fair to make any moral judgment calls- and I also don't think that you can make a direct correlation between premarital sex and the amount of single mothers in the USA, especially considering that a lot of those single moms are women who have gotten divorced, so the point is moot anyway.

And in all honesty, ffor people my age around here, the pressure to have sex is always there and personally it's really frustrating for me. Whenever you get into a relationship, the expectation is there- when, how long will it take before you're ready? A month? Six months? The second date? It's tough. And sometimes guys won't stick around with you if you're not willing to give it up.

Just saying that you shouldn't judge/say it's wrong if you're not part of that particular community. Like I don't feel right judging the choices a middle class girl might make in India, because my experience as a middle class girl in the United States is so utterly different.

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Winzy

@nicegirl_good

Sparkler

+ 4

Posted: 12 years ago

#63

I live in Canada too and went to a high school full of single mothers back in grade 10 lol
But for me it isn't about religion or society
It's more about trust
And commitment
I don't believe in marriage
But I would also not have sex unless I am married
Yes I might have my own way of looking at it
But you can talk to anyone in the u.s or Canada for that matter
People don't respect non Virgins
While being virgin is rather rare
But the good , educated , stable families are always having discussions about sex and they don't really encourage sex before marriage
I know because I have Canadian friends who don't have desi background unlike myself and they would much rather prefer losing it after marriage

Edited by ilovedhanjanird - 12 years ago

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pari87

@pari87

Voyager

Posted: 12 years ago

#64

Originally posted by: Rhapsody
I think we just come from very different perspectives/worldviews/expectations. I respect if someone has made the choice to wait until marriage, but I think it's your own personal decision if you want to do it before as well.

I really don't think it's fair to make any moral judgment calls- and I also don't think that you can make a direct correlation between premarital sex and the amount of single mothers in the USA, especially considering that a lot of those single moms are women who have gotten divorced, so the point is moot anyway.

And in all honesty, ffor people my age around here, the pressure to have sex is always there and personally it's really frustrating for me. Whenever you get into a relationship, the expectation is there- when, how long will it take before you're ready? A month? Six months? The second date? It's tough. And sometimes guys won't stick around with you if you're not willing to give it up.

Just saying that you shouldn't judge/say it's wrong if you're not part of that particular community. Like I don't feel right judging the choices a middle class girl might make in India, because my experience as a middle class girl in the United States is so utterly different.

Hey sorry to butt in, but I find it tempting to reply to posts that I liked reading...:)

My friend hilly and I have similar thoughts about pre-marital sex, but I also get what you are saying. I condone it for my own reasons, however, something like when to have sex comes from norms that the society you live in decides and/or the parental upbringing...This is not to judge anybody for anything. It is absolutely an individual choise to be cool with pre-marital sex or not to be cool with it.

I agree with hilly on how religion plays a role in both eastern-western cultures and their influence on ideas like sex and other taboo topics...I won';t get into religion as she has covered it...

What I think is, pre-marital sex is ok, when you have a stable mind and are very steady headed about consequences. Now, in India consequences could be " what if you don;t marry this guy? Will your arranged marriage potential boy be ok about this? Will you be able to forget this experience and move on to the next guy who you land up with? Will you be able to defend yourself in front of anybody who finds out your past? Will your parents be cool if they ever find out? These are pertinent questions living in India, as pre-marital sex is not taken lightly even now. Parents do disown kids ( as harsh as it maybe) over this, girls do get rejected in arranged marriages if the guy finds out...women are called harsh names just for indulging in sex with a lover, even if she WAS going to marry him, as in purvi's case. So these are things one needs to keep in mind. If you are strong, if your parents are open-minded, if you don't care about people's opinions, then by all means, you should do as you please. If you are not strong, like Purvi, to face the drums later of your actions, then do not do it. For purvi, pre-marital sex went against her own claims of judging punni for it, which is why I dislike her so much. It would not be wrong if she had claimed no pasing judgement on other people who have sex before marriage. But this makes her a hypocrite.

Anybody, whether in india or outside, if having pre-marital sex must must must display caution and use protection. This is not public service advisory but simply a way to avoid messing up an innocent child's life. Unmarried mothers anywhere face trouble. All sorts of trouble.There are umpteen teenage pregnancies in this country ( USA) and umpteen single UN-married mothers struggling with having babies out of wedlock or without being prepared for it. It is not a bed of roses to lie on. Men do not usually easily want to marry a woman carrying some other man's love child, a man who did not marry her. It works them up, as to why, this guy who gave her a baby, did not marry her eventually. Trust me, I had a guy friend who liked this woman, but simply could never get it out his system why the man she had a baby with, did not marry her. It made him wonder all the time if something was wrong with her ( This is an American, and however shallow it sounds, people think this way). I am not judging on what people think or say, but stating reality.

Mothers ( in india at least where I know) tell their daughters precisely this, when they find out you are dating someone, they tell you please gt married immediately, because they fear this lure of pre-marital sex, and one can never predict what may transpire before you get married, so why risk the daughter's reputation as well as an innocent baby out of wedlock, which is such a huge huge problem to be in, if in India. Mothers here, as i know from many friends, tell their daughters to practice caution and not fling around their sexuality at any man, but have sex responsibly with a man who they love...and obviously using protection is heavily emphasized. American mothers, because they know it happens here, it is almost inevitable and like you said, it's kind of a norm for kids these days ( however ghastly and wrong that sounds).

Purvi was not only being a hypocrite, but also super irresponsible. Her upbringing was much like a middle class indian girl, and she touted her sanskaars as the best and kept giving bhashans to other people about all of this. It went against her nature as they made her out to be. And being irresponsible, not just about using protection, but also, not taking that pill later and also giving up on Arjun like candy on her wedding night, was all irresponsbile.

Now, it is poor Pari who will have to face the consequences of two adults who got carried away. THAT is what is unfair always in pre-marital sex.

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Winzy

@nicegirl_good

Sparkler

+ 4

Posted: 12 years ago

#65

My problem with arvi consummating is Purvi this guy lied to you about Ovi , he suddenly fell in love with you when h e promised to marry Ovi
What if he didn't marry you lol
Purvi is just dumb

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Priya

@Rhapsody

Navigator

+ 3

Posted: 12 years ago

#66

Totally agree with you, pari87! Premarital sex in India is a completely different animal in India because the societal consequences are so much greater, especially when you're a member of the middle class.

And that is why Purvi has been irritating me as well- she is SUCH a hypocrite for lecturing Punni on sanskaars and being moral and she just went against everything. So they got carried away, I understand. But then knowing that they did that, why did she give Arjun up knowing that there was the risk?

I mean, did she not know? Was she unaware of the risk? Idk how sex ed works in India but it was just so foolish of her.

I agree that Pari is the real victim here, because Arjun and Purvi weren't careful and everything just went to hell after they made a "tyaag" that nobody asked them to make.

Ugh, this show has just gone to hell, I miss the days when their relationship was fresh and new and we all got butterflies watching them stare at each other in the Shiv mandir to DIl Kyun Ye Mera Shor Kare :|

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Hillylove

@Hillylove

Dazzler

Posted: 12 years ago

#67

I was speaking of single mothers all over the world, not just the USA obviously, I was speaking generally. I don't know where you get your statistics from also, because single mothers in the USA are not mainly divorced women. According to the USA Census Board, 45% have never been married. You can check it out. That is a lot. The rest is split between divorcees and widows.

If the guy won't stick around because you won't give it up, then he is not worth it. Same way he is pressuring one girl he is pressuring another.

A decent man who loves in the right way will wait forever. that is the man any woman should want.

That is the problem in this world, if you stand for something people say you are judging, and that is why this world is such a mess.

I will continue to say what I feel, and I will not fear who feels I am judging. I don't look down on those who engage in Premarital sex, I am more sad about what we are doing to ourselves as humans. I know I am not judging because I am only saying what I know is right and practical.

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Hillylove

@Hillylove

Dazzler

Posted: 12 years ago

#68

Originally posted by: archis_2013

My question was about Arjun. So your response to my question is that you do not find Arjun wrong if the tables were turned. Because they are legally married. Because the act is sex and not 'making love'? So, whatever good the man is, he can always be ill-treated?

Anyways, who was the ill-treated spouse is up for debate here. At best, I would balance out how they ill-treated each other - if Ovi could stab his heart with her backdoor deal, he stabbed her heart by not grieving over their dead child, never mind he also was not given the chance to meet her. Beyond that, you heard how Ovi was honest about Arjun did his best to give marriage a chance and what her inadequacies were. Arjun was also reminiscing about his part in Ovi's insecurities but isn't that Ovi's responsibility higher as she was the one who put Arjun in that inequal (sorry) state at the time of their marriage?

Unless, you say, just because Arjun is a man, he can always be ill-treated? I hope to god, you don't believe that.

In your opinion, Ovi was the ill-treated spouse. In my opinion, it was Arjun. But whoever it was, both should not be justified in doing the act, the answer to my question.

Dear, I mainly said I would not find Arjun wrong for walking out and due to his love had a last moment with Ovi, if he was the ill-treated spouse. Plain and Simple. Also, you are assuming that Arjun only had sex with Ovi, you were not there. So, please don't try to make what they shared dirty to make your point.

Please read my post again and not try to misconstrue it, then respond again.

Your second paragraph is based on tit for tat, I am not into that sort of nonsense about Arjun not grieving her for their child because she backstabbed him with a deal(in your perception). What you are suggesting is two totally different things. This is a baby that has nothing to do with the situation and is not only Ovi's baby but Arjun's baby also. So, not grieving his own baby's death to pay her for the deal, is a sick way of paying her back as you suggested. Also, what does he not meeting the child having anything to do with grieving? Do you realise what you are saying?

Lord what has this world come to.😲

I will end this discussion with you because we obviously don't have the same reference point.

Edited by hillydee - 12 years ago

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springkissed

@springkissed

Dazzler

+ 3

Posted: 12 years ago

#69

Originally posted by: hillydee

@Coolpixie,

Not everything done in the world is right. We all know deep down what is wrong and right.

In the world outside of India, it is also wrong to have premarital sex. That is why in the cultures of Christianity, when they become a Christian, they turn to celibacy before marriage. Not because some countries take God out of the schools, and people are fornicating like it is something good and there are a zillion religions with confusing rules, the basis of it all, is that you must not have sex unless you are married, if you are going about life God's way.
When you have premarital sex is like you are saying "You know what God, who cares what you think, I am just going to go ahead and do what I want without your blessings." Not to mention God may take a long time before he helps you out after your premarital sex decision, when you are in trouble..why? You have to learn the hard way.

Purvi is criticised not because she felt she was in love or Arjun loved her and not Ovi. She is criticised because yes she was wrong to have premarital sex, compounded by the fact that she judge Punni (because she felt the married man aspect was worse) not realising that premarital sex is premarital it matters not with whom and how, it is what it is, and dared to pretend to be chaste and cannot do such things. She had a lot of talk and could not walk the walk.

For me the addition to that was her after doing the deed, put that aside for what cause? Which one did she think would be worse for Archana? The disgrace of an illegitimate child or Ovi being upset with Archana for a few months? Even Ovi, would have backed off if she knew they had sex worse had a baby.

Yes some marriages may not have love, because some people don't involve God in choosing a mate or in their marital decisions, but choosing to have sex in a committed relationship with the blessings of God is the right way. So, at the end of the day, even if your marriage does not work out and you may have to divorce, you can always take comfort in the fact that you did try to live the right way and you can answer to that before God.

Please dont feel like I am preaching to you. This is just general knowledge.

I don't think that's general knowledge, I guess it's more of an opinion, so I think here I will disagree with you. Premarital sex is ultimately a decision! As a religious person, I understand where you are coming from, all the religions have always promoted, that have sex when you are married so you can give your mind, body and soul to only that one person to whom you get married. But as far I know about hindu religion (And I am pretty aware about hindu scriptures), no where in any of the scriptures it says that it is a sin or it is going against god's will to have premarital sex. Our hindu cultural norms look down upon it, but there is a difference between religion and culture, sorry as an anthropology student I had to point that out, obviously two are interrelated but ultimately they are different. I don't know if you think that or wrote that in the rush of the argument but I completely disagree with the notion that our scriptures say anything like that.

And as far as Christianity promoting it as a sin, I don't agree with it. Personally, I don't believe in some of the tenets Christianity holds up, they also believe that Adam and Eve were the first people to come on earth, do you believe that? They don't think evolution is right, they believe that god just directly made a man and a woman and then animals and put them all on the earth in a mystified garden. I don't know about you, but as sane and an intelligent person I really have a hard time believing that. Christianity as a religion has alot of good to offer for a lot of people, but then the followers know what to take literally and what not to. Moving on to you saying how god is not going to help you if you do it out of wedlock, but it's not even about the premarital sex in that. Whenever you do something that can have bad results, then god expects you to take up the consequences no matter what, he gave us free will for a reason. So I agree with you on the part that premarital sex causes problems, such as an unplanned baby, so therefore it was wrong in this case. I am definitely not saying that purvi was right in having premarital sex because ultimately it caused alot of problems for her. And again, I will stress that she did it impulsively, in the heat of the moment and it wasn't planned. So you can't really compare this to punni's deeds. Whatever punni was doing was repeatedly with a married men, and each time she was fully aware of her situation and still chose to do it. And as far as ovi is concerned, I don't think ovi would have backed off either way, she would have just supported purvi in her decision to leave with her child and go somewhere else. She wanted arjun no matter what at that time, her character has grown now but then she definitely would have tried to claim Arjun at any costs, this being one of them.

Again, I will stress the point that I don't think premarital sex is always right, an unplanned and impulsive premarital sex is not right! Because ultimately it can cause alot of problems for you, but I completely disagree with the notion that our hindu religion thinks it is a sin and so therefore god will not help you. Hope I am making some sense!:)

Edited by coolpixie - 12 years ago

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Hillylove

@Hillylove

Dazzler

Posted: 12 years ago

#70

Originally posted by: coolpixie

I don't think that's general knowledge, I guess it's more of an opinion, so I think here I will disagree with you. Premarital sex is ultimately a decision! As a religion person, I understand where you are coming from, all the religions have always promoted, that have sex when you are married so you can give your mind, body and soul to only that one person to whom you get married. But as far I know about hindu religion (And I am pretty aware about hindu scriptures), no where in any of the scriptures it says that it is a sin or it is going against god's will to have premarital sex. Our hindu cultural norms look down upon it, but there is a difference between religion and culture, sorry as an anthropology student I had to point that out, obviously two are interrelated but ultimately they are different. I don't if you think or wrote that in the rush of the argument but that I completely disagree with that notion that our scriptures say anything like that.
And as far as Christianity promoting it as a sin, I don't agree with it. Personally, I don't believe in some of the tenets Christianity holds up, they also believe that Adam and Eve were the first people to come on earth, do you believe that? They don't think evolution is right, they believe that god just directly made a man and a woman and then animals and put them all on the earth in a mystified garden. I don't know about you, but as sane and an intelligent person I really have a hard time believing that. Christianity as a religion has alot of good to offer for a lot of people, but then the followers know what to take literally and what not to. Moving on to you saying how god is not going to help you if you do it out of wedlock, but it's not even about the premarital sex in that. Whenever you do something that can have bad results, then god expects you to take up the consequences no matter what, he gave us free will for a reason. So I agree with you on the part that premarital sex causes problems, such as an unplanned baby, so therefore it was wrong in this case. I am definitely not saying that purvi was right in having premarital sex because ultimately it caused alot of problems for her. And again, I will stress that she did it impulsively, in the heat of the moment and it wasn't planned. So you can't really compare this to punni's deeds. Whatever punni was doing was repeatedly with a married men, and each time she was fully aware of her situation and still chose to do it. And as far as ovi is concerned, I don't think ovi would have backed off either way, she would have just supported purvi in her decision to leave with her child and go somewhere else. She wanted arjun no matter what at that time, her character has grown now but then she definitely would have tried to claim Arjun at any costs, this being one of them.
Again, I will stress the point that I don't think premarital sex is always right, an unplanned and impulsive premarital sex is not right! Because ultimately it can cause alot of problems for you, but I completely disagree with the notion that our hindu religion thinks it is a sin and so therefore god will not help you. Hope I am making some sense!:)

Honestly, I was not speaking from Religion I was speaking from Spirituality, they are not exactly the same. I don't really believe in Religion, I think it causes Segregation and that is another story.

NO Dear, I never said God Will not help you , read what I said again. I could never say that about God, I said the help won't be as quick, because remember you gotta learn from your mistakes first.😃 So, there will be some struggles as a single Mom. If not financially, via stigma.

Edited by hillydee - 12 years ago

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Stop blaming Ovi now - Page 7

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